LOL...Intech’s ER-12 2WD 1/10 Buggy.... Look familiar??

[OneKiwi]

Does this look like something we have seen before??

And a nice quote from Intech:
" the design team have focussed on not following the trends and other designs, opting to design the car from the ground up with the customer in mind " :lol:

http://www.neobuggy.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/intech2wd.jpg

more info
http://www.neobuggy.net/2013/07/26/intechs-er-12-2wd-110-buggy/

Were the designs sold or did these slip out the back door of the factory

[Alan - South West RC]

Although this looks a lot like a car we all know so well I do like some of the changes they have made (gear diff, shocks, steering rack etc). A link to the companies product page..............

http://www.intechracing.com/news_detail.asp?sn=96

[HarlowS]

lol I like this line ..... the design team have focussed on not following the trends and other designs, opting to design the car from the ground up

[Pacman]

I thought it was understood that it was based on the DEX210, rather than pretending it is something totally new?

http://www.msuk-forum.co.uk/topic/176017-intech-racing-er-12-2wd-buggy-kit/

Maybe this is part of the reason why DEX210 kits are so cheap now.

[afun1979]

lol I like this line ..... the design team have focussed on not following the trends and other designs, opting to design the car from the ground up

Lol, were they refering to their own design team though?
Looks like someone's bulk bought a load of 210's and selling them on...

[southern racer]

Maybe Team Durango have sold on the rights to the older Dex210 as they have a new platform on the way and want to both raise investment for newer developments and maximise the return on previous developments rather than just let that design be superceded internally?

Intech on the hand may be looking to enter the 2wd market and want an established, low risk, quick to market, solid platform as a basis for their first outing?

It does look like it might be connected to the Durango sales though..?

[Danosborne6661]

That's a hell of a car with all the alloy and carbon! Love that it comes with the alloy anti-squat mounts and all the alloy shock caps, lovely :) How much!

Perhaps Durango sold their design seeing as they're coming up with the DEX210 V2 soon? Or maybe they have a V2 coming out very soon because they've noticed this car!

[Northy]

Interesting they seem to have 'upgraded' some areas but not some other possible problems :lol:

I think its probably a vernier caliper copy....

G

[jo90]

It's the cloned cousin of the DEX210...but with added extra's. Thing being here is the company know they will have a car that works immediately

[Origineelreclamebord]

It's very much a copy of the 210 yeah... What strikes me is that Intech racing is based in Taiwan, and I recall that the DEX210 is actually produced in Taiwan as well... I'm curious if/how that is related to each other... :eh?:

As for the car: It looks a lot like a DEX210 and the geometry probably is exactly the same, but the devil is in the details: How small the tolerances on the parts are, to what degree warped moulded parts make it to the customer, how consistent the quality and strength of the material is, etc.

[AfroP]

i like the red transparent gear cover and the shock bladders

[OneKiwi]

Would be cool if some parts transfer over. Like the gear cover, towers, battery strap.
Wonder what that pricing will be?
As mentioned I hope its good quality parts or people will end up upgrading it to a 210

[Si Coe]

Looking at the pictures side by side the only difference is the gearbox. Theirs is wider which means the rear wishbones are shorter hence their claimed 'totally different rear geometry'.
The only other major difference is the cut down sides of the battery compartment - which is even funnier when you realise that the bit they've cut out is where the original has a Durango star molded into the plastic!

[terry.sc]

The thing is we don't know whether Durango or Kingstar has the design rights, or what the deal is with Hobbico. Just to confuse things even more, when the DEX210 was created Durango was owned by Kingstar. If Kingstar has the design rights and Hobbico doesn't have an exclusivity clause in their contracts with Kingstar, then there's nothing to stop Kingstar selling the kits to anyone who wants to buy and rebrand them, assuming these cars are coming from the same production line as the Durangos as that is surely more likely than a company copying a design coming from a factory less than a hundred miles away.

[watfordtrackwarrior]

problem is people will buy it coz its cheap then break it and start putting durango parts on it also the other way people putting the cheap cars parts on a proper durango the market will be flooded with loads of unidentifyable hybrid cars pushing second hand values down beyond the deepest depths of hell stay well clear in my opinion although would be a car i aint had and there aint many of those lol:(

[Lee24h]

Have a look at the intech br6 buggy looks like a xray / durango copy

[Danosborne6661]

Make sure to update this thread when we work out the price :)

[jimmy]

Ok it's no big secret I worked for a couple of years at Team Durango before I went freelance. I worked on the kit page for that car on my own - and looking at this kit page, I think If I'd had a shandy or two I'd become confused and think it was my own kit page (but not quite as well executed).

They even copied that side by side thing, it's crackers. As for the car - wow, It's a proper bullshit full-on stolen design.

For the principal that they copied my kitpage - I don't want this car being promoted (links to where to buy it for example) on this forum.

[Danny Harrison]

http://www.msuk-forum.co.uk/topic/176820-intech-er-12-2wd-copy-cat-%E2%80%A6/

This puts it pretty well. Basically fully ripped off, the design isnt even oem (or patented for that matter though)

[jimmy]

If you buy this car - you are a bell end, basically.

[K-Brewer]

If you buy this car - you are a bell end, basically.

:thumbsup:

[Danny Harrison]

If you buy this car - you are a bell end, basically.

PMSL

[hobbypros]

lol I like this line ..... the design team have focussed on not following the trends and other designs, opting to design the car from the ground up


FYI. Neobuggy writes their own press releases and added that line. I have the original press release from Intech Racing, and that was not in there. So be careful when you read something on the internet, because it might now be 100% true. :lol:

[MattyBox]

Those who know me will know that I run the Intech Br6 nitro and E buggy's when the Br5 was first released people were saying the same thing, its an xray copy, yes it looked similar but was actually quite a bit different and then the Br6 came along which in my opinion is up there with any of the top brands and the build quality and wear rate is top notch. If you look at any 1/8 buggy you could say the same, is the agama based on a Losi, an s works on a mugen? The Br6 has the geometry of an agama, associated gearing, Losi hubs, kyosho engine mounting and Ackerman design, xray arms etc. You could say they have taken the best bits of the other brands and worked them in to their design.

The ER 12 does look like a Durango granted but if they have taken this as a platform and added designs from other brands to improve it then it should be a good performer. And if it is anywhere near as solid as the 1/8 cars then the plastics and wear rate should mean less cost replacing worn parts.

I am not up to speed with 1/10 to be honest but here is a list of parts included in the kit as standard so like the 1/8 I imagine it will be super competitive straight out the box.

The new ER-12 Pro Buggy from INTECH Racing raises the bar in the 2wd 1/10th scale buggy class. The ER-12 includes hundreds of dollars worth of high strength CNC Swiss 7075 Aluminum and light weight Carbon Fiber parts only available as aftermarket/option parts on all other brands of racing kits. INTECH Racing spared no expense to bring you the best 2wd racing kit right out of the box with out having to buy any hop-up parts to compete at the highest racing level - no RTR's here.

Features included:

Mid and Rear motor configurations with same 3 gear gearbox

CNC 7075 Aluminum hard anodized Chassis with 25' kick-up for a lower center of gravity and longer life

4mm Light weight carbon fiber graphite front & rear shock towers

Carbon Fiber ackerman steering plate for a precise zero slop steering rack

Carbon Fiber battery hold down strap

CNC Aluminum 12.5mm Big Bore threaded shocks with Bladders, CNC alum caps, CNC bottom caps, and CNC spring adjusting nuts

CNC 7075 Aluminum rear anti-squat and MM and RM toe suspension blocks

CNC Aluminum 12mm rear wheel hexes

CNC 7075 Aluminum Imperial size front axles

CNC Aluminum front inner camber link mounts

CNC Aluminum top gear shaft with dual slipper pad spur gear

CNC Aluminum rear chassis brace mount

CNC 7075 Aluminum rear axles

CNC 7075 Aluminum upper shock mounts

CNC Aluminum motor mount plate

CNC Aluminum Slipper Clutch plates

CNC Aluminum motor plate spacers

72mm Captured steel CVD's

Metal 4 Gear Differential for more durability and less maintenance

Ball Bearing steering bell cranks with CNC Aluminum top brace

Externally adjustable slipper clutch nut

Adjustable Caster from 15-35'

Adjustable Rear Toe from 1.5-4.5'

Adjustable wheel base from +/-11mm

Adjustable steering arms for forward or trailing +/-5mm

Adjustable battery location

Adjustable front & rear roll center

Front & Rear arm sweep for increased traction and lower center of gravity

Front chassis slot for weight additions when additional steering is needed

Plastic side guards to allow proper chassis flex for better traction and bump handling

Front and rear droop screw adjustments

Captured hinge pins throughout

Forward Cab body and high down-force lexan wing

87T Light weight spur gear

20T Steel top shaft gear

52T Diff gear

6x1.1mm, 6x1.2mm, and 6x1.3mm shock pistons

Light weight zero flex white front & rear wheels

Black alloy metric screws throughout

Metric ball bearings throughout

[mattr]

In summary, it's a 210 clone.

Maybe that's why durango have dropped their prices?

[dpackster1980]

Yep it's a 210 blinged up end of story to say otherwise is blatantly wrong. :thumbdown:[

[watfordtrackwarrior]

problem is people will buy it coz its cheap then break it and start putting durango parts on it also the other way people putting the cheap cars parts on a proper durango the market will be flooded with loads of unidentifyable hybrid cars pushing second hand values down beyond the deepest depths of hell stay well clear in my opinion although would be a car i aint had and there aint many of those lol

[jimmy]

You can't justify this car! they even copied MY kit page for the car!!! Sadly they don't have fisheye or ultrawide lenses for closeups of some of the small parts to make them 'pop' out - but otherwise they've done a good job of copying a style I set.

[jimmy]

Compare this shite kit webpage for one of their cars here: http://www.intechracing.com/product_view.asp?sn=327&darea=34&dcat=91


to the one for the 210 clone here http://www.intechracing.com/news_detail.asp?sn=96


Bit of a difference and strangely familiar feel to how they've done it. I'm surprised they had the skill to actually copy a kit page that well.

[TheReferee]

If you buy this car - you are a bell end, basically.

Could be waiting a while for the oople review then?:p

[Si Coe]

Given the price of genuine 210's right now, and the carbon and alloy heavy build of the Intech I can't see how this is going to be the cheaper car. And I suspect Intech know this too as the marketing focuses heavily on the level of spec.

So in essence this is an expensive imitation that claims to do it better.

Consequently I doubt we'll see many ER-12s with standard 210 parts - aftermarket 210 upgrades perhaps but not kit parts. But we might see a few 210's with ER-12 towers or shocks.

Also note this line
'Mid and Rear motor configurations with same 3 gear gearbox'
The patented part of the 210 is the 4 way gearbox design, which this car doesn't use. Its a 3 gear only.

[peetbee]

Also note this line
'Mid and Rear motor configurations with same 3 gear gearbox'
The patented part of the 210 is the 4 way gearbox design, which this car doesn't use. Its a 3 gear only.

I was just going to comment on that, as the pictures confirm it.
As Durango patented their gearbox that would explain why this one has a new gearbox.
Mid motor with 3 gears? That'll work well! ;)

Is it just me or has that shell been hit with the ugly stick? :wtf:

[MattyBox]

Ok so we all agree it is based on a 210.

How much would it cost to get a 210 up to the spec of the Intech?

USA Intech team driver Gene Hickerson built the 2 buggy's together and said it is 50 - 60% different. He also took TQ and the win first time out, not sure how big the event was but its obviously got the pace.

Here is a snippet of his build

the buggy is much more different then I originally thought. The front end is the same geometry but with some differences like the steering arms can be set in 5 places (inline or trailing), but the rear end is completely different.

It is a whole new rear geometry. The CVD's are 72mm long - way longer then the DEX210. The rear hubs are non offset and can be moved forward or back 7mm rather then 4mm. The camber link location is totally different and the roll center is different. The rear susp blocks are wider. The rear chassis brace and body mount is different. The side chassis guards are way smaller. The chassis is different and about 4mm longer then the stock 210. The gear box is different

[Danosborne6661]

Features included:
Mid and Rear motor configurations with same 3 gear gearbox

Oh. That's suddently made the car pretty bollocks.

And if the car is completely different to the DEX210 which you are claiming Matty, I'm pretty sure people would just prefer to get the DEX210 at £95 as that is a proven race and euro winner. People would only want this if it was a cheaper version of the DEX210 but that seems unlikely given Durangos current prices.

[Origineelreclamebord]

@MattyBox: Yes it's different in places and rear geometry in particular, I understand, but the way the DEX210 is constructed is quite unique and they copied that to great extent :p

Taken even that the car will in practice prove to perform different than the DEX210, I'd rather support the company that released the car that inspired the copies. And let's face it, the fact that the DEX210 is being copied to such extent says something about the quality of it's design :)

[jimmy]

The fact a 'team driver' has to build both cars at the same time to tell the differences seems like a pretty desperate move to try and justify this thing. I called TD just in case they had some how licensed out the design before I came on to slate it.

[hobbypros]

They were not built at the same time. The DEX210 was built 1 month prior after he saw the first pictures of the ER-12 and it looked like it was based off the 210. So naturally he bought a similar buggy to build and race before the ER-12 was ready. He also bought a Losi 8 2.0 4 months before the Agama A8 was released to test that style also. And before that he bought a Kyosho SP2 before the CEN Matrix was released because they were similar.

I would think it would be smart for any pro driver to test the competition before getting their new ride. Especially if they are a close platform. ;)

How else could they say what is different or better or worse and give an opinion at all on the subject? :D

[Si Coe]

Never seen a team driver say (officially) that their team car isn't as good as the opposition, or that it's a blatant copy of another car or anything similar at least not if they planned to keep their team drive./

[Garry]

Most things team drivers say = stuff to please the sponsors.

Wouldn't touch that Intech thing with a barge pole on basis of principle. They could win the next Worlds with it, but I wouldn't buy it as its a ripoff of the original design.

Whats likely to have happened here (in my opinion, it'll probably be proven wrong later lol) is that....

TD design a car, and go to a factory in the Far East to manufacture it. They do an agreement that the factory makes XYZ units for XYZ years, with the option to renew the deal incase the car proves unbeatable in Model Shops over a number of years (think AE B4/Thunder Tiger for example). When the deal reaches the end, TD may have decided not to renew the deal, and request one/all of the technical designs back. For whatever reason, the factory has looked at the success of 10th Off Road and thought ''we want a bit of that'' and boom, used the designs of the car they made to be sold under their own brand.

Now, Tamiya, Schumacher and HPI all have had this happen in the past with 100% clones of their own cars (manufactured 3rd party OEM then stolen as a new car), and legal action followed, so maybe the factories stealing designs like this have decided to change a couple of things to keep laywers off their backs (the gearbox on this car).

Its definitely unethical and definitely wrong.

[mattr]

That happens in a lot of industries. Change the design just enough to avoid immediate legal issues then flood the market. Hope you make enough money before the plug is pulled.

TBH copied toy cars is at one end of the spectrum, fake commercial aeroplane parts is a whole different kettle of fish!

[M.Andrews]

Any idea of how much and when is the release date of this car?.

[bender]

USA Intech team driver Gene Hickerson built the 2 buggy's together and said it is 50 - 60% different. He also took TQ and the win first time out, not sure how big the event was but its obviously got the pace.

Here is a snippet of his build

the buggy is much more different then I originally thought. The front end is the same geometry but with some differences like the steering arms can be set in 5 places (inline or trailing), but the rear end is completely different.

It is a whole new rear geometry. The CVD's are 72mm long - way longer then the DEX210. The rear hubs are non offset and can be moved forward or back 7mm rather then 4mm. The camber link location is totally different and the roll center is different. The rear susp blocks are wider. The rear chassis brace and body mount is different. The side chassis guards are way smaller. The chassis is different and about 4mm longer then the stock 210. The gear box is different

I saw this post on rctech and if it wasnt for the fact the mods there were getting edit-happy with people dissing this car then i wouldve added my 2 cents worth too, which i'll happily do here ;)

To claim that the car is 50-60% different is a joke. Lets not mince words here, it's not so much the actual parts which have been cloned, it's more so the design. Changing the shape of the battery locators, cutting down a tiny part of the sidepods etc, whilst making the parts technically different, doesn't stop them from clearly still being a copy.

Ironically most of the real changes have been made do to avoid any legal complications of cloning the patented gearbox. As soon as they had to put their own gearbox on it, it's rather unsurprising that new suspension mounts were needed to accommodate it, which then requires new arms, which then requires new hubs, driveshafts etc, and on it goes.

I'd be surprised if any of the rear end changes were made due to testing or technical analysis, but more simply "doing what needed to be done" to get the car to work once their 3-gear gearbox was on there. The rear hubs are quite funny when you think about it... make them a little narrower, shave off some more material.. and bingo! more shims used, therefore bigger wheelbase adjustment. Lets hope other manufacturers don't all decide to start shaving off bits of components in an effort to get another few mm of adjustment in for the sake of marketing.

Honestly, I don't have an issue with the car being almost cloned - it's logical to assume that except for the gearbox, Durango don't own the design rights to the car, so there's no reason to stop the owner (Kingstar if its the case) making this car OEM for another company. It happens already in the RC industry. My issue, and i guess it's the same for others, is how Intech representatives on forums try their hardest to refute what is so damn obvious :thumbdown:

[Danny Harrison]

Any idea of how much and when is the release date of this car?.

If you buy this car - you are a bell end, basically.

:p:thumbsup::p

Sorry Jimmy, couldn't resist!

[hobbypros]

The ER-12 is based off the DEX210 and that has been said from the very beginning. That has never been denied, but it is not a clone or exact copy.

I can't speak for the Intech engineers, but I would guess they looked at all the buggies out there, then choose the one that had the best features, and used that platform to design their buggy. They basically just tried to improve on a proven platform. If it was an all new design from Taiwan, no one would buy it unless they spent tons of money hiring top drivers to fly around the world and win big races. But since it looks like a buggy people know works, then they are more likely to give it a try.

IMO, the ER-12 is way better then the DEX210. It comes with way more upgraded parts and it does not fall apart and break just going around the track. They both handle well, so the better one is the one that does not DNF every race. Only time will tell. :)

[hobbypros]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPCPhvIPnn0

[peetbee]

IMO, the ER-12 is way better then the DEX210.
so the 3 gear mid motor gearbox is way better than a 4 gear, really?!

[mattr]

The ER-12 is based off the DEX210 and that has been said from the very beginning. That has never been denied, but it is not a clone or exact copy.

I can't speak for the Intech engineers, but I would guess they looked at all the buggies out there, then choose the one that was currently flavour of the month, and then ripped the design off as hard as they could without infringing any obvious patents;)

it comes with way more upgraded parts and it does not fall apart and break just going around the track. They both handle well, so the better one is the one that does not DNF every race. Only time will tell. :)I thought they'd ripped off a 210, not an AE4.1

I reckon their next 4wd will be an XB4 clone, that seems pretty popular at the moment.

[MattyBox]

Any idea of how much and when is the release date of this car?.

Hi.

The first batch of buggy's are expected in the UK around the 6th of September and pre orders are now being taken. RRP is £239 but the first 10 kits are available at £199.

It was mentioned on this thread that the buggy could not be promoted on here so dont want to break any rules! Try searching Ebay???

The buggy has had a bit of a pasting on here but I think we should wait and see what it does on the track and compare the build quality to other models before writing it off. Some will buy it, some wont.

I am obviously going to give it a try through the winter, didnt think I would go back to 1/10 after a 22 year break and they do look very small after a year racing 1/8 Nitro but will give an honest un biased view on it for anyone who may be interested.

Who knows I may even get some 'Team Bellend' Stickers done lol!!!

[Si Coe]

Hmm - twice the price of a real 210 then?

Ok, its got carbon towers and alloy shock tops but with the £100 price difference you could do the same to a 210.

Very much the expensive imitation.

[Danosborne6661]

lol that the copy is twice the price of the DEX210