Vintage Buggies; which will you suggest for racing/runner

[optiman]

I am toying with the idea of getting a vintage buggy just for racing/runner. It does not need to be the perfect vintage machine and or difficult/costly to get spares.
All I need is something I can enjoy while not having the stress of worrying about where or how much it will cost getting spares.
In the other hand will not want to get a POC of a buggy I dont know of or handles too bad.

I was concidering the Tamiya The Frog, always wanted one but never had one nor seen one in action. I've had friends with Beetles and Blackfoots(I assembled them all for them zillion of years ago) and remener them having fun without any hassles. Is the front suspension too bad?
Others I might concider;
Avante
Optima

What would you suggest? Pros & Cons?

[southern racer]

How about a RC10 or Losi XX?

Both were very popular so relatively easy to get parts for and not too expensive. Both handle very well, can run modern electrics and be reasonably competitve even against the latest cars.

[Naushad]

Hotshot is good.

[ralphee]

Id steer clear of Tamiya for harder racing, for fun, they are top, but racing, hmm, depends whether you want 2WD or 4WD, and an Avante is a minefield of maintenance.
2WD is a lot cheaper on maintenance, and a nice Losi, or even a re re RC10?
Spares are going to be around for that one for sure, and even the older Losi's are pretty abundant in parts.
4WD, well, most are pretty spendy to start with, id always say Yokomo, but parts can be a PITA to obtain, and afford, some Schumacher the same, but, hmm a tasty CAT2000 would be killer, really does depend what you want it for, and how far your budget will stretch!

lee

[rallymaddaz]

What about a Schumacher Procat - I've just finished restoring mine and raced it on Friday indoors for the first time in over 20years. It showed up a load of modern buggies with only cheap non sensors electrics installed.

Can't wait to give it a go again this week - I think I prefer it to my sx3

[optiman]

How about a RC10 or Losi XX?

Both were very popular so relatively easy to get parts for and not too expensive. Both handle very well, can run modern electrics and be reasonably competitve even against the latest cars.

Lol, just as I finished writting this thread I turned around and saw my vintage shelf queen Championship RC10, but is in inmaculate mint condition!!!! And although it has lost value due to the re release I dont feel like running it, buying a beaten up RC10 might be an option. The problem for me is that the RC10 is like the belly button... everyone has one!!!

Like Ralphee said, Tamiyas are fun... and that's about it. For me racing vintages would be for fun. If I want speed and excellent handling I'll just run something modern, perhaps with a vintage body covering it.
The Hotshot is nice, but I am not really a big fan. Schu's are expensive and difficult to get spares.
Why is the Avante so high mantainance? I would highly concider running one.
I would rather race a 4wd, and a Optima maybe, but I already been that path when I restored a Mid Custom to shelf mint condition to later race it and scratch the poor buggy. It not felt right for me... :(
What about the Frog's front suspension?
DanB4, did your pal raced his Frog among you guys? If yes, how did he do?

Vintage racer wish list;
1)Fun, no stress about breaking something.
2)Cool looking
3)Mech speed controller & brushed motor; nothing beats a high end motor with sparks flying all over!!!
4)Sturdy or at least not a whimp

[Paul Field]

Hi we race Frogs at our club against Wild Ones and other vintage cars.
The Frogs are great fun but are not that competitive against a vintage RC10. Vintage racing is always going to be more for fun as it would take a complicated handicap sytem to make it fair. This is because all the older cars are so different.
My advice buy a Frog and have fun they are great.
I posted a video of Frog racing on our TRCMCC section here on Oople.

Cheers
Paul

[DanB4]

The Frog was all about fun it bounced around the track, was nursed over jumps and got lapped several times by my optima mid and rc10.

[ozipanda]

We race Tamiya Hotshots, Boomerangs and Bigwigs with 540 silvercan motors and it is great fun. If you want to go a bit faster and more durable 4wd car the Tamiya Manta Ray or Top Force are great as well, parts are cheap and readily available.

[Crashtest33]

Has anyone not seen the price of vintage tamiya spares?? :woot:
Kyosho Lazer ZX-R all the way bro. Loads of the breakable parts still available for reasonable money. Either that or my TOMS :wink:

[DanB4]

Has anyone not seen the price of vintage tamiya spares?? :woot:
Kyosho Lazer ZX-R all the way bro. Loads of the breakable parts still available for reasonable money. Either that or my TOMS :wink:

Speaking of a TOMS ;) thanks to J.M./Bormac :)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/SDRCC/Screenshot_2013-08-07-21-03-54_zps3b2a41f7.png

[ozipanda]

Has anyone not seen the price of vintage tamiya spares?? :woot:
Kyosho Lazer ZX-R all the way bro. Loads of the breakable parts still available for reasonable money. Either that or my TOMS :wink:

Is anyone dumb enough to buy Tamiya parts from there?!:o
How much are spare gears, front bumper and front bulkhead for a Lazer btw?!:lol:

[terry.sc]

I am toying with the idea of getting a vintage buggy just for racing/runner.It depends on which you want to do, if you want to race it seriously or just for a laugh. For racing if you want to be competitive just find the newest car that fits into the year restrictions, technology moved on so fast that a chassis a year or two older would not keep up. Of course if it is just for the laugh then racing with something like a Frog is a lot more fun as you are just trying to get it round the track without crashing rather than worrying about hitting corner apexes. In the mid 80s I was racing a Frog which was very competitive against the Scorpions and early RC10s, best result was a C final win at the nationals, but there were very few parts on it that weren't worked on or replaced with upgrades.

All I need is something I can enjoy while not having the stress of worrying about where or how much it will cost getting spares. If worrying about spares availability is important to you then go for any of Tamiyas popular re-releases, or the original ones that have been re-released. Plenty of spares still around for the likes of the Hornet, Frog, Scorcher, Boomerang, etc.


I was concidering the Tamiya The Frog, always wanted one but never had one nor seen one in action. I've had friends with Beetles and Blackfoots(I assembled them all for them zillion of years ago) and remener them having fun without any hassles. Is the front suspension too bad?Nothing 'wrong' with the Frog front suspension, but if you want to run one for some time there are a few tricks you can do it make it considerably better, same with the rear suspension and the gearbox.

It's a Frog, plenty of them about. Pick up a cheap second hand one and run it, if you don't like it sell it again and get your money back as there's plenty of buyers. If you have fun with it then get a better one or a new one to keep. Either way, at least you will have had the experience.


In the other hand will not want to get a POC of a buggy I dont know of or handles too bad.
Everyone compares vintage with the modern buggies they are used to and surprise, surprise the old cars aren't the same quality with loads of play and dodgy handling. That's why we love the old cars, in the same way people love original Minis even though they have terrible ride, no grip and no power compared to the new BMW ones.


It's all down to personal choice, go with whatever you fancy and everyone will just tell you to get whatever they like. Personally when I'm off bashing I always take a Frog, Super Blackfoot, Sand Scorcher, Ultima and Optima, with a Lazer ZX-R, Optima Mid and RC10T2 getting an occasional run. The Frog and Blackfoot get thrashed, they bounce off impacts that would take the corner off a racing chassis and are just pure fun to drive. The Scorcher just looks great when bouncing around and attracts the most attention. The Optima gets the most use (http://www.tamiyaclub.com/tc_userimages/280/img280_31082008183702_5.jpg) and is pretty indestructible with some updated gears in the gearbox and a belt drive conversion. The ZX-R gets little use these days when bashing as the parts that can break are the same ones that are impossible to find and I've got through my spares.

Spares is something to think about, while some people insist on spending a fortune on new parts every time and having to search for them, it's cheaper and easier to keep an eye open for cheap cars on ebay as a source of spares to keep you going. I have picked up a good supply of spares by watching for battered looking cars on ebay, the parts will keep you running and a few scratches won't stop the parts working.

[terry.sc]

Lol, just as I finished writting this thread I turned around and saw my vintage shelf queen Championship RC10, but is in inmaculate mint condition!!!! And although it has lost value due to the re release I dont feel like running it, buying a beaten up RC10 might be an option.
Optima maybe, but I already been that path when I restored a Mid Custom to shelf mint condition to later race it and scratch the poor buggy. It not felt right for me... :(Buying new parts for something that is going to be run is something I will never understand, such as sourcing new dampers because the original tops and bodies are scratched, or because a perfectly good chassis has a few scratches underneath, when the new ones will end up with the same damage after running them.

If you are going to run something then getting a tidy used example and sticking a new bodyshell on it will give you something that no one will be able to tell from a fully restored car when they see it on the track, and you are won't wince whenever you crash worrying about which overpriced new part you have just scratched. None of my runners have parts replaced unless they are damaged, considering how many I have it would cost me a fortune anyway. For example my Optima runner had a horrible pink body, some missing gears, no wheels and a bent front under guard, it cost me £25. Gears were from the cheaper Ultima gear set, the under guard was straightened, not replaced, wheels and tyres from my spares box and a repro body added so the whole buggy cost me £50. Nothing else has been replaced and as all the parts that get scratched are already scratched I don't feel guilty about running it hard and crashing it. Yes, they might have a bit more play than all new parts, but that is going to make no difference when you aren't concerned about fractions of a second in lap time and to be honest a lot of the really old cars were designed to run with all that slop in them.

[DerbyDan]

It seems to be a real struggle to get enough people together on a regular basis to race a full vintage class, so it seems I normally end racing my older cars against the modern stuff in the main heats... & just seeing how I fare. My Vintage 'mounts' are all what i'd call racer-grade cars so are a bit more suitable for such racing compared to cars like the SRBs, Hornets, Frogs etc but it is still amazing how well these cars go especially when fitted with more up-to-date electrics... I've even managed to be quite competitive, finding myself at the sharp end of a few A finals, when the track conditions have favoured the rear motor configuration cars (all my vintage runners are 2wd)

I have so far raced a Worlds RC10, a Losi XX and most recently a Losi JRX2 - I get a massive buzz from running these cars, especially if I get a decent result & I love the reaction from the other racers - some think its some 'hot' new design whilst others remember the days when it actually was the 'latest thing' - but all seem rather miffed when they realise they've just been beaten by a 20-25yr old car!:thumbsup:

[Crashtest33]

Is anyone dumb enough to buy Tamiya parts from there?!:o
How much are spare gears, front bumper and front bulkhead for a Lazer btw?!:lol:

Sorry, I didn't mean Chris or Myles. I meant in general.
Also, did you break the front bulkheads when you were racing?

[Dandare]

I really enjoy racing my Frog, I chose it as it brought back memories of looking at one in my local hobby shop when they came out but couldn't afford one. It is a Re-re but they're pretty faithful to the original tbh. It has the kit esc & stock silver can 540 so it's been reliable so far. I only get away with the (let's face it, awful) suspension as the track is mainly flat astro, it'd be terrible on any bumps :lol:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/DanAli/IMAG0106.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/DanAli/media/IMAG0106.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/DanAli/IMAG0271.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/DanAli/media/IMAG0271.jpg.html)

[optiman]

To race/run a vintage again will require to be a 100% enjoyable expirience for me, no worries. Racing my Mid Custom was fun, but at the same time it was troubling for me to examine the buggy after each run and watch how everything I put a lot effort to get it mint go all to waste, it just does not make sence for me. I really enjoy my small vintage collection and stare at them occacionally, cleaning them, doing this and that, but I would hate myself to beat them at the track. But I also, thanks to some members here, I'm starting to get an itch of running something vintage. But like Terry said in his own words, once is on the track with the body on it does not matter if its new, scratched or beat up as long as its running.
I think most probbably I'll go with a Frog or RC10 or might hack one of my B44's and turned it into a Frankeinoptima, once it has the body on top I think it will do it for me. To mimic the chain drive noise I will get a metal MOD1 spur and leave plenty of lash on the pinion LOL!!!

[ralphee]

Vintage meets are what ive got in mind from here too TBH, as Dan said, its hard to get the numbers up i guess.
I have an indoor venue that run buggies on carpet here in Bham, i pan to acid test my Yokomo's there in the next couple of weeks against modern buggies, and a silly part of me hopes it instils some passion for others to join in the vintage fun.
There is just something about vintage cars, little sense of childhood nostalgia, seeing them race is just the best, hence, even my new built '94 will now be run, and its the car i have a pretty hefty spares back up for.
I think ill be harder on my 91, more so when i can get a little pitbox of bits for her.
Once thats sorted, i want to join Dan at Silverstone, crazy thing is i dont drive, but ive a brother who is eager to run me down for some racing fun, its been far to long away from it!
As for the Frog and racing, i have to add, id get a kick out of seeing one tanking round, vintage is vintage, and, its a bit of fun, and takes a lot of us lads back a few years!

lee

[terry.sc]

I only get away with the (let's face it, awful) suspension as the track is mainly flat astro, it'd be terrible on any bumps
You can get the Frog to run fine over bumps, my old one would glide over grass just like the Scorpions it raced against. The problem is both front and rear springs are way too hard for racing, replacing the rears with better springs and adding coil over shocks to the front end makes a world of difference, after all it's what we did to them back in the day, and shimming the front end improves steering (http://www.tamiyaclub.com/article.asp?id=123), although you can go over the top with it.:lol:
(http://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=24278&start=0)

[Dandare]

I have some Fastrax shocks on the rear with a spacer on the shaft to slightly reduce downward travel to stop the dogbones falling out, & I did try some softer springs on the front end but they didn't really work out, lol.

Tbh, it's kinda fun bouncing around as it is, it's not serious racing just a laugh.

[Adam F]

I decided to buy the ones I either had as a kid or really wanted and couldn't afford..

Current vintage runners are a Carbon hybrid Cat XLS/Procat thing which I made too pretty to use really and a Tomy Intruder thats just about to be painted up... which will be my main vintage ride.. (again too pretty really, but I always wanted one) I have a re-re Lunchbox too for a bit of a laugh...

I guess my vote from the ebay offerings would be:

RC10 Tub - £100 ish
Procat - £100 ish

or...

Tamiya Mantaray - £60ish

[Welshy40]

What about a bosscat? Great car with wishbone protection.

[alcyon]

My vote would be optima mid LWB or Lazer ZX series.
Both are strong cars, still almost comparable against modern cars, and the good news is many parts are being made by enthuthiasts like myself.
If you run the LWB optima mid, things to watch out for .
1. use the aluminium chassis, they will never snap.
2. Bodies are easy to get with marwan and kamtec repros, as well as belt covers.
3. A good runner is quite cheap.
4. You can use the associated B4 spur gear and slipper clutch with my new layshaft (there is another guy making this shaft too, no need to buy exclusively from me)
5. Front arms are scarce and can break,but i am using a 8.5T brushless.. rears never break. Good news is i will be making nylon arms for the fronts soon.
6. Ball diff pulleys are still cheap. forget about gear diff SG-25, crazy prices !
7. Can use modern kyosho universals.
8. Difficult car to work on to remove diffs and gearbox.

Lazer
1. Layshaft Pulleys are almost bulletproof.
2. A B4 slipper layshaft is in the works. A compatible spur gear has been made by RW.
3. Bodies for the ZX-R and ZX-S are easliy available.
4. Easily removable front and rear diffs for servicing.
5. front arm can break under very hard collisions. Arms are rare and expensive, but can be made.
6. Front gearbox can strip with open type shock tower, get a closed loop one.
7.Belts are cheap and easy to find.
8. modern kyosho universals are compatible.

So there you have it. I have run my LWB optima mid at a 1/8 scale rough buggy track and broke several front arms, but keep in mind I was running in really extreme conditions, nothing else gave trouble, so i will make several front nylon arms for runners, something that will flex a little and be harder to break.

[optiman]

After reading comments and suggestions I personally narrowed my options to the following:
1)For pure fun my #1 choice is; The Tamiya Lunchbox, Black Edition.
2)For a fun, but with better handling than the Lunchbox it would be; The Tamiya Frog.
3)From this point on, looking for more performance, but still willing to do some maintainance and since it's my favourite buggy; The Kyosho Turbo Optima.
4)For even more performance on a vintage platform with mantainance involved; The Kyosho Turbo Optima Mid SE but with Gold shocks. I will also concider a Lazer, but have never had any expirience with them.
5)And for a "vintage" expirience without any hassle of expensive or difficult parts to find, tough as nails chassis and zero mantainance; The AE B44 hacked up and with a Optima vintage body.

I've been tinkering with the idea on this last option, and it is very doable and in the end I think the result would do it for me. Let's face it, locally there's NOT ONE other racer running vintages, so I would be competing against modern buggys all the time. Since I am an average R/C driver I will never get a vintage on the podium, and only will end up staining the vintage reputation.
I've seen the B44 Grayseal conversion and I could do something very similar making parts to make up or mimic the chassis of the Optima but with a mid motor layout. For the rear I could make the Option House motor guard that encloses the ESC with a fan instead of the rear motor....
But... What's the fun on that?! The whole idea of fun and vintage is all gone in CAD design, figuring out stuff, etc...

So after thinking what I am really after, which is a NO STRESS pure fun expirience, a Tamiya Frog it would be!!!

[mr. ed]

Build your own: get a traxxas bandit and 'retro' it back to something resembling the TRX-3 (TCP)

[Jamesk]

I race my Top Force Evo from time to time, spares are fairly easy to find as they share with other tamiya models. The car is still quick and so much fun to drive on period tyres. Build any classic race it and enjoy my fast attach vehicle is slow easy to flip and handles like a wet paper plate but is huge fun and that's the best part.

Any vintage races in south east of England coming up?

jK

[Welshy40]

Personally i would opt for a 2wd as parts will be easier to source plus its simpler to maintain.

I am the number one fan for the Lazer ZX/ZXR and am responsible for a lot of the items plus a lot of redesigned items being availble from different suppliers, however for a bit of fun 2wd will be the way. Avoid tamiya as they break just looking at them and are costly for spares. Why not buy an RC10 thats worn out and rebuild it to race as they really were designed for punishment and handling.

[Welshy40]

I race my Top Force Evo from time to time, spares are fairly easy to find as they share with other tamiya models. The car is still quick and so much fun to drive on period tyres. Build any classic race it and enjoy my fast attach vehicle is slow easy to flip and handles like a wet paper plate but is huge fun and that's the best part.

Any vintage races in south east of England coming up?

jK

None that im aware of.

[kaszal]

My Procat's been awesome btw it's for sale ;)

For fun or regular club racing my Lazer FS2 is easy to drive and set up, no problem getting spares (although tbo vintage Schumacher spares can still be found) and I can run it into the ground if I want to.

Depends how fond you are of vintage and having something rare and unusual.

[ralphee]

I love the vintage "race" cars TBH. Just brings back so many memories i guess, to me its like real cars, road and race, way back, they just had more character.
Im actually cycling NIMH's now ready for next friday lol, either gonna take the '94 YZ10, or Works 91 out, full vintage running gear too, well, apart from servos, there modern lol, but brushless/Lipo installs are in the pipeline for both cars!
If you feel flush, grab a Yokomo YZ10.....spendy and hot on parts, but my lord they drive on rails and go like the clappers!

lee

[ralphee]

My Procat's been awesome btw it's for sale ;)

For fun or regular club racing my Lazer FS2 is easy to drive and set up, no problem getting spares (although tbo vintage Schumacher spares can still be found) and I can run it into the ground if I want to.

Depends how fond you are of vintage and having something rare and unusual.


Luke your Procat is legend, it would kill me to part with such an awesome car, i still may pop someday for a CAT2000 though, never owned one, but had many friends who did, a wicked car!

lee

[kaszal]

Luke your Procat is legend, it would kill me to part with such an awesome car, i still may pop someday for a CAT2000 though, never owned one, but had many friends who did, a wicked car!


Cheers Lee!

It's time to say goodbye. Can anyone give her a home?

[optiman]

Well I definately would like to run something vintage, not necesary a true racer, just something with carachter like Lee said.
If I go with the Frog, I'll be happy and with it's stock 540 it will be fun and slow. I am not a great driver, not even an above average one, so running a fast vintage or one that "invites" me to put in a hotter motor is just bad news for me. I will crash it and break something, end of fun...

So I am seriously concidering the Frog idea and/or maybe the Optimized B44, which I already know how I will do it, at least in my head. Why an AE B44 instead of a Kyosho Lazer? Because I have three B44, plus numerous spares and once the body is on top it won't matter to me, this project would be for fun.

I will get a Yokomo YZ10, but I want one for my collection, I really dont
want to scratch them after restoring them. I tried the "restore & then run them" expirience and is really not for me, too much stress for me!!!!

[stickboy007]

I assume you're referring to 4wd buggies here? I'd say you have three realistic options - CAT 2000/EC, Lazer ZX/ZXR, and YZ10.

For the YZ10, I just ran my 870C at the Vintage Nationals in Bethel, CT, and it did very well (video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9jBQuxy9xQ). I love my 870C - it's an animal! It is technically not as "great" as the '94, but it's easier to find (and easier to find parts for), and can be set up to drive quite well. I also have a '94 runner, but I tend to restrict that only to "clean" tracks which do not have many loose rocks, since the 33T pulleys are much harder to find than the 35T pulleys. It is not hard to fab a rear dirt cover out of lexan, though, and I do very much enjoy driving it. Takes a bit of time to get used to the center one-way, though, especially if you're on loose dirt.

The Lazer ZX/ZXR is arguably more competent than the 870C, but it is a total pain in the butt to get to the gearboxes and replace belts/pulleys. I have one as a project car and may run it a few times, but I honestly don't take it too seriously, as working on it is way too complex for what I think is a relatively simple design. Spare parts are also difficult to find and people tend to sell them at extortionate prices.

If you can get your hands on a CAT 2000/EC, that thing is a beast. Plenty of suspension travel and probably way better over jumps than any YZ10. I have a CAT 2000 that I plan on running soon, and I expect it to be much more competent where I race (U.S. Northeast). It is comparably easy to work on as the YZ10, but has way more tuning options. Spare parts are also not too hard to find.

[Welshy40]

I assume you're referring to 4wd buggies here? I'd say you have three realistic options - CAT 2000/EC, Lazer ZX/ZXR, and YZ10.

For the YZ10, I just ran my 870C at the Vintage Nationals in Bethel, CT, and it did very well (video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9jBQuxy9xQ). I love my 870C - it's an animal! It is technically not as "great" as the '94, but it's easier to find (and easier to find parts for), and can be set up to drive quite well. I also have a '94 runner, but I tend to restrict that only to "clean" tracks which do not have many loose rocks, since the 33T pulleys are much harder to find than the 35T pulleys. It is not hard to fab a rear dirt cover out of lexan, though, and I do very much enjoy driving it. Takes a bit of time to get used to the center one-way, though, especially if you're on loose dirt.

The Lazer ZX/ZXR is arguably more competent than the 870C, but it is a total pain in the butt to get to the gearboxes and replace belts/pulleys. I have one as a project car and may run it a few times, but I honestly don't take it too seriously, as working on it is way too complex for what I think is a relatively simple design. Spare parts are also difficult to find and people tend to sell them at extortionate prices.

If you can get your hands on a CAT 2000/EC, that thing is a beast. Plenty of suspension travel and probably way better over jumps than any YZ10. I have a CAT 2000 that I plan on running soon, and I expect it to be much more competent where I race (U.S. Northeast). It is comparably easy to work on as the YZ10, but has way more tuning options. Spare parts are also not too hard to find.

Mmm not true for the lazer as gearboxes, pulleys and belts are readily available and if you want a tensioner i feel my design will be available for everyone within two weeks. Also chassis of all designs including the tub, top decks, front and rear shock towers, L braces in various formats, steering plates and if you want tobe serious my cf rear gearbox but will be pricey as a few items are hard to locate. Still doubt youll need that if my tensioner works well on the rear gearbox. Wheels are easy to get as well as bearings snd ujs and bodyshells like the Parma Tomcat and Lazer ZXS shell which does fit with a bit of adjustment.

[stickboy007]

Mmm not true for the lazer as gearboxes, pulleys and belts are readily available and if you want a tensioner i feel my design will be available for everyone within two weeks. Also chassis of all designs including the tub, top decks, front and rear shock towers, L braces in various formats, steering plates and if you want tobe serious my cf rear gearbox but will be pricey as a few items are hard to locate. Still doubt youll need that if my tensioner works well on the rear gearbox. Wheels are easy to get as well as bearings snd ujs and bodyshells like the Parma Tomcat and Lazer ZXS shell which does fit with a bit of adjustment.

That is very interseting. My experience has been decidedly different for the Lazer. Belts are certainly easy to find, from places like sdpsi. Anything that's a plate (shock towers, upper and lower decks) are obviously available from FibreLyte. But if you want a new bumper, or new arms, layshaft, slipper clutch, diff pulleys, etc...not easy to find at all...at least for me, and they are way overpriced as a result (but that's Kyosho in general...even the new stuff). Even if the parts were easy to find, it is not an easy car to work in in comparison to the CAT and YZ10.

Let me be clear that I am not a Kyosho "hater." They make a great product. The Lazer is a great chassis; however, in my experience at least, the YZ10 and CAT 2000 are easier to work on by miles and perform just as well.

[mintzant]

Kyosho lazer zxr and yokomo works 91!!!
Super cars...

[Welshy40]

Yup all perform well and Yokomo especially.

We now have a 3d printer who can make the bumper, pulleys, wishbones etc and yes a bit pricey.