Caring for bearings

[dibble34]

right, have an xb4 which i ran in the wet. got home took all the wheel and diff bearings out. some felt a little crunchy, but none were seized. i took one side of the sheid off on each of them and left them to soak in a pot of gt85 (fully submerged) for about 10 days. i just got them out to oil and put back and nearly all of them have seized! they dont look rusty, but are locked solid. bit miffed, can anyone explain why this would happen?

[alex97]

If there was water in the bearing before you submerged them then the water might have got trapped in the bearing .

[mattr]

GT85 is rubbish for that sort of thing.
Give it a blast with it by all means (or WD40) to clean it out.
Then if you are going to soak the bearings, use some proper wet lube, bicycle chain lube wouldn't be far off the right sort of consistency.
You need to move the bearings too. Make sure the oil gets in everywhere, no pockets of water or bits of dirt wedged in there.

What sort of bearings were they? Metal or rubber sealed (or double rubber.....)

[SlowOne]

Oil and water don't mix, so putting them in the oil (GT85) without cleaning them out means the trapped water will rust the parts anyway.

WD40 is water dispersing, GT85 is only a lubricant. Take all the bearings out, remove the shield/s and flush them through with WD40 or motor spray until all the water and dirt is gone. A final flush with motor spray, then dry them, then GT85 to lubricate - done!

HTH :)

[szymanski2oo1]

Can I ask what's in bearings ? Are they all filled with some sort of oil or are they some greased with a silicone type grease... I remember reading somewhere not all bearings are the same ?? Anyone know ?

[dibble34]

They are the kit xray rubber shielded bearings. I didn't do anything with them before submerging apart from taking the sheild if one side as didn't realise it would not disperse the water. Looks like I need some wd40 as well :blush: thanks all for the info

[mattr]

They aren't all the same, and unless you were the person sourcing them, you really don't know what's in them. Oil, grease, 50% fill, 75%, 25% high speed grease, low speed, you don't even know the bearing numbers, sizing or grade.

All you can really be sure of is stuff you can measure, see or count yourself.

[HOTSHOT III]

Hey Dave, there's an easy way of doing this. Drill a small (2-2.5mm) hole in the hub between the place each bearing sits (strip the hubs and do some careful measuring) and you can blast the water and muck out in situ as shown. Afterwards you can plug the hole with short pieces of a rubber band or just an M3 grub screw if the hub is plastic.

It doesn't weaken the hubs, Mugen did this with the MBX6 but i've done this for a long time with lots of different cars.

TBH I still strip and service my hubs every week, this isn't a good enough system to never have to take the hubs apart, but it does mean you can quickly disperse the water and crud when you get home tired after a day's racing and do the job properly later in the week when you feel like it:thumbsup:

I once raced my DEX210 in the wet and did this when I got home, then didn't touch the car for 6 months and the bearings were still fine, but if you don't do anything with them they'll rust within a couple of hours. If they feel crunchy it's already too late.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7292/16225575999_58d1da2f4a_b.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7434/16225584219_d8863c3e5d_b.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7453/16385833636_369784cd25_b.jpg

[dibble34]

That is a top tip Alex :)

[Allan1875]

Oil and water don't mix, so putting them in the oil (GT85) without cleaning them out means the trapped water will rust the parts anyway.

WD40 is water dispersing, GT85 is only a lubricant. Take all the bearings out, remove the shield/s and flush them through with WD40 or motor spray until all the water and dirt is gone. A final flush with motor spray, then dry them, then GT85 to lubricate - done!

HTH :)

Pretty sure GT85 is a water displacer also. I use this on my cars prior to racing to dispense water instead of WD40 because WD40 eats rubber seals in your shocks etc.

Edit:
http://www.gt85.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/GT85_water_displacement.pdf

[SlowOne]

That is misleading in so many ways!!

It proves that GT85 does not mix with water as well as the 'leading competitor' - whoever that is!

It ignores the fact that if you are going to lift away water and grease from a surface then you have to dissolve or emulsify it! It's similar to the way that detergent works in your dishwasher and when doing the washing up - the 'soap' (WD40) wraps itself around the dirt and water and allows it to 'dissolve' into the WD40 that is flushing it away.

It ignores the fact that WD40 is primarily oil-based with a volatile solvent to carry it to the point of use. The solvent has two uses - to carry away water and dirt and to allow the oil to be delivered to the points of use. Once the solvent has evaporated the oil remains as a guard to prevent corrosion.

The GT85 has PTFE in it, but that is a lubricant, not a corrosion inhibitor. As can be seen from the demonstration, GT85 is not miscible with water, so it can only displace it if it forces its way across the water. In the demo, the leading competitor has emulsified the water and/or dissolved the grease so it is no longer in contact with the metal, whereas the GT85 is sitting on the water which could still be in contact with the metal.

The GT85 you sat your bearings in did not get behind the water in the bearings. As their demonstration shows, the GT85 simply sat on the water which was still in contact with the bearings - as you found out when they came out seized!

Once the GT85 is delivered to the point of use and the PTFE is present, that will act as a barrier to water clinging to metal. We used to use GT85 as the way of preventing water staying in bearings and getting to the metal surfaces, and then WD40 (WD stands for water displacement!) to flush it out before the next race, or to take it home. I hope that helps.

Hotshot - that is just so innovative; top marks! :thumbsup:

[dibble34]

I use proper bearing oil to lubricate so as I understand it if I switch to wd40 when I strip/soak the bearings all should be good?

[J77MYF]

I don't like GT85. I've tried it on my motocross bikes and it's not a patch on WD40. Blast it with WD to dispurse water and dirt then grease/lubricate the stuff properly.

[szymanski2oo1]

To grease lubricant bearings properly do we have to remove the sheilds ... I've tried but not had any luck doing it ... Am hesitant to give the car a spray with either wd40 or gt incase the bearings have a different type of grease in them like a silicone based stuff ... My bro told me that wd40 can dissolve some greases and turn them into a sludge ...


I don't like GT85. I've tried it on my motocross bikes and it's not a patch on WD40. Blast it with WD to dispurse water and dirt then grease/lubricate the stuff properly.

[alex97]

To grease lubricant bearings properly do we have to remove the sheilds ... I've tried but not had any luck doing it ... Am hesitant to give the car a spray with either wd40 or gt incase the bearings have a different type of grease in them like a silicone based stuff ... My bro told me that wd40 can dissolve some greases and turn them into a sludge ...

I use mucoff to clean the bearings then I soke them in a very thin bike oil and I've never had a problem. After a few cleans the bearings don't feel that smooth so I normally replace them.

That might not be the best way but I've never had any problems with internal rust and they always feel smooth afterwards.

[Darren Boyle]

There is some fantastic advice and information from AVID RC (widely regarded as one of the industries very best bearing suppliers) which details all aspects of bearing cleaning and after care etc, it can be found on their website via the two links below......

http://www.avidrc.com/information/support/

http://www.avidrc.com/cleaning.php

We carry the full range of all AVID bearings and lubrication products in stock for anyone who may need them here in the UK

[wookiee76]

All I used to do was remove the seal from one side, blast with motor spray to clear them out and then a few drops of royal oil to lubricate. Ive never used grease in my bearings as I found it to add friction and slow them down. Back in the days of 1700mah packs every little helped!☺

[Welshy40]

Gt85 is the best. Teflon repels grime unlike wd40 which attracts dirt. Did ten years in Wales with heavy rain and just squirt gt85 into each bearing on both sides to rinse out dirt, then leave in the oil overnight and job done. Get a cloth and rotate bearings to remove any excess dirt and can use a light oil if you want then bung back in car.

[SlowOne]

To grease lubricant bearings properly do we have to remove the sheilds ... I've tried but not had any luck doing it ... Am hesitant to give the car a spray with either wd40 or gt incase the bearings have a different type of grease in them like a silicone based stuff ... My bro told me that wd40 can dissolve some greases and turn them into a sludge ...Bearings can only be cleaned out if at least one shield is removed. Your brother is right - WD40 will dissolve most greases and if that solution (sludge!) is not flushed right out of the bearing it will cause problems, not solve them.

Although dirt and debris gets into bearings seemingly easily, there's no guarantee it will get out just by pointing some jet of cleaner into the gaps in the seals. Always take the shields out to clean bearings.

Welshy, neither of them repel grime. The grime is fine anywhere except in the ball cage or between the balls and the races. Neither of these products possess the ability to stop grime getting into the ball cage or races - how can a film of oil a couple of microns thick made of hydrocarbons repel a piece of dirt tens of microns thick made of a hard material when it gets into a space too small for the dirt particle? It breaks through that thin film in an instant and does the damage.

As I said earlier, use GT85 in a clean bearing for lubrication and for the film of PTFE that will try to stop water sitting on the metal. Use WD40 to clean it out (although I like the Muc-Off idea for that - original!) and then dry it, lube it and use it. If the water comes down get the GT85 in there before racing.

You'll have your pet theories and carry on using them, so I hope some background is helpful. I don't bother with any of this - racing indoors means it doesn't rain!! :thumbsup:

[szymanski2oo1]

Great read... Thanks for info .. 😄

[Col]

Bearings. The single most boring subject in the world.
I fit mine, then about 6 months later I replace them (or earlier if I run outside, which I don't)
The cost of 2x cans of WD40 = a whole bearing kit!

[Joe_K]

Whenever I fit new bearings, I flush them first with motor cleaner and then put some motor bearing oil (very very thin oil). For me this lets the bearing run as free as possible. The caveat to this is that I have to flush and re-oil more often, but I don't mind that.

Very good advice from Slow One :thumbsup:

[h0m3sy]

Bearings. The single most boring subject in the world.
I fit mine, then about 6 months later I replace them (or earlier if I run outside, which I don't)
The cost of 2x cans of WD40 = a whole bearing kit!

Yep, spot on. Just replace them, not expensive to do these days.

[traffman]

WD40 will actually make things worse , its a de greasant, it will flush all the goodness out make em notchy and youll never get them running right.

[mattr]

There is some fantastic advice and information from AVID RC (widely regarded as one of the industries very best bearing supplier).......Sorry, I have to take issue with this claim:evolution (RSZ): Avid invented this seal make up in 2003 to offer the best of both worlds.

I spent a year back in the early 90s converting a good number of industrial mixers to metric sized bearings. All of them used this seal make up that avid "invented". Some of the machines were already 30 years old....

Some with a pressurised internal oil feed (as per the drilled hubs up there ^^^^^) some that needed a regular refill with grease.

[Tobyw]

Hi,

I race at TORCH so know what its like when the track is wet and horrible :)

For me, when I get home from the meeting I strip all the bearings out of the cars (my 2 boys and mine) and throw them all in a plastic lid full of WD40. I found that blasting them with either WD or GT85 can just force the water around the bearing rather than out of it. I then leave them in there for a few hours. I find that that tends to get all the water out of them. Once that's done I normally throw them all into another lid which I have full of std 3in1 oil and them leave in there till I rebuild the cars. Normally when I get round to it a few days later. This allows the oil to seep into the bearing. Using this method I haven't had one seize on me yet. Its really keeps them in good condition.

As one of the other posts mention, once a bearing starts to feel crunchy its already too late as the shell has probably started to pit with tiny rust holes. It may work for a time but once the dreaded red starts to eat the shell its only going to end up one way.

Anyway, that's what I do and it works for me.

Toby

[Tobyw]

Bearings. The single most boring subject in the world.
I fit mine, then about 6 months later I replace them (or earlier if I run outside, which I don't)
The cost of 2x cans of WD40 = a whole bearing kit!

WOW, where do you buy your bearings. 2x WD40 = £7 (average) a whole bearing kit for my car is about £26. Even to replace the 12 that are "external" and are liable to get wet still equates to about £12 - £15

either that or you got some damn expensive WD40 :lol:


Toby

[h0m3sy]

http://www.rcbearings.co.uk

[mattr]

2wd or 4wd.
There's only really 4 bearings on a 2wd that'll suffer.
4wd is a whole different pile of rusty water.

[/tobys]

http://www.rcbearings.co.uk

+1 - great value and great quality

[Paul Seddon]

I flush out with brake cleaner then use sewing machine oil. Has always worked well for me and very cheap from any sewing shop.