GT12 Help.. [Archive] - Page 2

stucartwright

31-05-2015, 04:03 PM

Thanks Sam, over the moon with the new lip's quite honestly.. Raced at WKRCC and I know it was a very quiet meeting and there was only one final, but the standard of racers there was pretty good, with one or two stand outs which I certainly competed with at times, my car was the best its ever been...

I have created a YouTube channel, looking to post a few drives up there as time goes on, for my interest as much as any newbie to racing.. So after all this talk, I thought I would show you how I drive, and I am sure you guys can give me some heads up on my driving.. haha..

https://youtu.be/mIO2Y0dNCgo

Too many clips of apexes and a few altercations with cars, but I loved every second and thats what its all about..

I have a really cool story to tell from today too, which I am going to add to the thread "How to help new people get started...." which is currently running on oople too, so watch out for that..

On the speed front, there was comfortably no car quicker than mine down the straight which has made me very happy.. Now time to get more into the set up and cutting out those little errors that stop me from improving my times..

Stu, over and out! :)

stucartwright

05-06-2015, 06:16 AM

So it's been a few days since updating on here...
Popped over to Braknell Radio Car Coub Monday evening, what a great little club that is. Only a small track, but the guys are super welcoming and offer some really competitive fun. Always 8 or more GT12 drivers.

I managed to qualify for my first A Final, and I have to say. It's truly the first time where fettling with my car actually provided a serious improvement to the cats performance. With lap times getting better, and I even had a few laps leading the A Final before the euphoria took over and I got passed!

Since then, I have got spending, and upgraded my spur, stuck with the 70T but an RW one. Upgraded the balls, associated grease along with a 15K damper oil for what I'm hoping, a bit less chassis roll.

The decision to get the superstox over the zen is now becoming clear. Really enjoying the hop ups and all the various tweeks available with this car and it's providing so much fun and competitive racing.

The body roll aspect seems to be a slight issue at the moment, the car does feel a little like a high sided Luton can at times (I don't like to exaggerate) which I think loses my ability to get enough speed through corners. I watched the video quite a few times I posted, and you can see my car looks far more lateral roll compared to those passing me. Before you say, it's because they a cornering better, but I believe that's a cause and affect scenario not the other way around... We'll see!!

Anyhow, that's where I'm at, will keep on trucking!

SlowOne

05-06-2015, 08:49 PM

These things roll, end of! Don't worry what it looks like Stu, worry what the clock says. It sounds although you were doing OK (brain fade in the A excepted! :p) so focus on that.

If you are running the set-up in the instruction book stick with it. A pan car needs to be softer on high grip and harder on low grip, so don't get distracted by other thoughts or opinions. Yes to trying the harder syrup and trying to damp the car in roll, but no to harder springs. Yes to softer tyres front and rear but no to more additive - get the idea?

It's really good to know that there are a lot of clubs out there running GT12. I knew it was popular, but when you find a club with a small track getting eight GT12 drivers on a race night, it's testament to the appeal of the class.

stucartwright

05-06-2015, 09:10 PM

Yet again SlowOne, really appreciate the tips with the springs, tyre additive. I definitely found that one out on Monday and great to hear you back it up with your super experience.

I fitted the new diff, upgraded balls, RW spur and pinion. Simply can not believe how much better the mesh is and how smooth it feels compared to the kit spur and pinion I got.

It's unbelievable. Had a servo saver tweek too, had the screw not done up tight enough, giving me slackness (no word any man likes to hear), so the steering should benefit from that!!

Ahh this is a great hobby. Jeez

So I got a new shell, sprayed her up tonight, still have the wing to do. Went a little adventurous and I think I didn't do bad! So I've posted a pic.

Have a great weekend folks, happy racing!! I'm off to Wales, will drop into Tracksidespares for some fun :)

stucartwright

05-06-2015, 09:13 PM

Pic 2

stucartwright

05-06-2015, 09:16 PM

Pic 3

stucartwright

08-06-2015, 09:00 PM

I've now entered the world of Micro
Almost finished... Can't wait to see these two run!!
The mods on the GT12 are very exciting...
The Carisma is my extra time with the a controller in my hand, and a car to throw in the boot for a quick buzz about!

northernerbill

11-06-2015, 07:47 PM

This is a great thread Stu, I've read through from start to finish and being totally new to GT12 has been very good for me.

One point I haven't seen or equally could have missed is tyre truers.

I would love some advice on this aspect. I'm racing at the Chichester club (1st meeting last weekend for me) and clearly this is an important area of the car.

Theres so many little questions and then follow on questions.

Like what diameter should we be looking for as a max and min.

How quickly do they wear down from that.

Taking mm's off a stock tyre reduces ride height, so dialing that back in easily.

What does all the shore stuff mean etc.

Thanks again though Stu!!

Xracer

12-06-2015, 05:50 PM

Mmm a list to contend with there but I can try and add some light that I hope concurs with the thoughts of others.

First and probably a good starting point in Shore hardness, this is the measured hardness of the raw sheet material from which the tyre rings are cut, the lower the Shore number the softer the rubber compound.
The tyre hardness will vary from the outside to inside as the rubber is stretched onto the wheel, the bigger the starting diameter the softer the tyre will be but attempting to measure a actual tyre hardness is not a true Shore measurement but can only really indicate a difference from one tyre to another, not the actual true Shore value but an indicator only.
As the tyre wears or is trued down the actual hardness will increase slightly because of the pre-stretch onto the rim.

I believe it is commonly considered that the smaller the tyres the better the cars handle mainly due to the lowering of the roll centre of the car, there may be more debate on the actual physics of this to follow.

I am led to believe that starting at 44-45 mm for the rear and 1-1.5 mm smaller on the front will deliver a good handling car and give some degree of tyre life, assuming you don't 'chunk' them on the barriers in the meantime!
The softer tyres can chunk very easily unless some reinforcement of the tyre edge is carried out, some use superglue, some use Shoo Goo or an equivalent.

I have also found that as supplied the tyres are not always very true, I have had some up to 1 mm eccentric, so a truer is needed initially as this plays havoc with the cars handling.

When it comes to tyre wear then this depends of a lot of factors, circuit layout i.e. sharp corners or sweeping curves, driving style, aggressive or smooth, repeated application of additive rather than changing tyres for each heat as some do.
The actual rubber compound being used will deliver differing wear rates irrespective of the original shore hardness too.

I have measured tyres to try and establish wear rates and I have seen somewhere between 0.2-0.5 mm per heat, depending on the tyre hardness being used, the carpet type, condition and grip level, surprisingly the higher rates were measure when racing without additive on 32 Shore tyres though!

As for tyre truers, there are a number on the market, sometimes hard to get hold of but Hudy, 3Racing, Integy, Fastrax to name just four and of course you will need suitable mandrels depending on the wheel type you are using.

I hope this goes part way to answering your emerging questions.

SlowOne

13-06-2015, 12:56 PM

To add some notes to a great reply...
Mmm a list to contend with there but I can try and add some light that I hope concurs with the thoughts of others.

First and probably a good starting point in Shore hardness, this is the measured hardness of the raw sheet material from which the tyre rings are cut, the lower the Shore number the softer the rubber compound. Start with around 50 front/35 rear for a GT, 50 front/35 rear for a Zen. Go down on the front for more steering, and up on the rear for more rotation.
The tyre hardness will vary from the outside to inside as the rubber is stretched onto the wheel, the bigger the starting diameter the softer the tyre will be but attempting to measure a actual tyre hardness is not a true Shore measurement but can only really indicate a difference from one tyre to another, not the actual true Shore value but an indicator only. Not strictly true. Hardness will vary depending on where the tyre is cut from the sheet. Stretching it over the rim makes little difference. As stated, there is a variation on tyres with the same hardness number on the label, but not so as you need to worry about it.
As the tyre wears or is trued down the actual hardness will increase slightly because of the pre-stretch onto the rim. More effect is seen from the fact that as the tyre gets smaller it moves round less on the track. Smaller tyres make the car more precise in handling. Anything from 46 rear/44 front downwards is OK, bigger than that will make the car feel imprecise.

I believe it is commonly considered that the smaller the tyres the better the cars handle mainly due to the lowering of the roll centre of the car, there may be more debate on the actual physics of this to follow. See note above. Tyre diameter has no impact on roll centre as the main weight of the chassis is always in the same place relative to the roll centre due to ride-height adjustment. Again, less tyre means more precise handling, but the roll centre is not the cause of that.

I am led to believe that starting at 44-45 mm for the rear and 1-1.5 mm smaller on the front will deliver a good handling car and give some degree of tyre life, assuming you don't 'chunk' them on the barriers in the meantime!
The softer tyres can chunk very easily unless some reinforcement of the tyre edge is carried out, some use superglue, some use Shoo Goo or an equivalent. GT12 tyres are pretty robust; I find Contacts the best in this respect. It pays to run a bead of superglue across the tyre/wheel joint (Zen have an excellent range - e-mail them for recommendations) on the rear. For the fronts, run superglue right up the sidewall until it meets the tread. This prevents the car rolling and makes it handle much better.

I have also found that as supplied the tyres are not always very true, I have had some up to 1 mm eccentric, so a truer is needed initially as this plays havoc with the cars handling. Too right!!

When it comes to tyre wear then this depends of a lot of factors, circuit layout i.e. sharp corners or sweeping curves, driving style, aggressive or smooth, repeated application of additive rather than changing tyres for each heat as some do.
The actual rubber compound being used will deliver differing wear rates irrespective of the original shore hardness too.

I have measured tyres to try and establish wear rates and I have seen somewhere between 0.2-0.5 mm per heat, depending on the tyre hardness being used, the carpet type, condition and grip level, surprisingly the higher rates were measure when racing without additive on 32 Shore tyres though! I get a bit less than that per race, but it really does depend on the carpet and the additive. SXT 3.0 is good just about everywhere. When the grip comes up them Spider Grip Green is better.

As for tyre truers, there are a number on the market, sometimes hard to get hold of but Hudy, 3Racing, Integy, Fastrax to name just four and of course you will need suitable mandrels depending on the wheel type you are using. If you can't run to a tyre truer, then see if someone at your club will bring theirs along or do some tyres for you. Once you have them at the starting point, there's little need for the truer until you need to restore the stagger (difference between front and rear diameters) as the rears usually wear faster than the fronts. Less stagger gives more rotation, but only up to a point. Fronts should NEVER be bigger than rears. Don't sweat on not having a truer - make a friend of someone and use theirs. Coffee and beer for your time on a truer usually smooths that path! If you are anywhere near the Shootout series at Chesterfield club, come along and someone will sort you out for free. :thumbsup:

I hope this goes part way to answering your emerging questions. Me too, but come back if you want more help. :)

northernerbill

13-06-2015, 02:31 PM

Guys this has been a great help. You can usually find something on youtube etc explaining this kind of info but apart from demo's nobody had gone into how much to remove and the science etc.

Again many thanks and I've opted for the fastrax manual truer and arbour.

SlowOne

13-06-2015, 08:24 PM

That'll work! Always beware of things on places like YouTube etc. Just because someone can make a video doesn't mean they know what they are talking about!

When you've trued a tyre try to smooth it out with some 80 grit abrasive paper and round off the edges a bit so it doesn't dig in when cornering - round off between the tread and the sidewall. Newly trued tyres will be a bit iffy until they smooth out, so give them time in the early part of your first race. HTH :)

mark christopher

13-06-2015, 08:59 PM

With the low roll center kit we are all going 45 front or less, 42 or the new 40 shore.

As you tube comment above,all the Info posted is not always correct....

northernerbill

15-06-2015, 09:44 PM

Yeh cheers for the further info. I'm no RC/racing newbie (or youtube experts for that matter) BUT am a total newb to GT12 and all that it brings.

The Chichester guys where really helpful and forthcoming with help when I asked but you want to crack on with stuff in between and this thread with all your advice is helping me and I Know others too.:thumbsup: Ta

stucartwright

16-06-2015, 08:32 PM

So pleased this thread is providing so much use to the GT12 newbies..
Keep it going lads! I will be back with more questions no doubt soon... (Oh joy I hear?!)

Stu

stucartwright

16-06-2015, 08:40 PM

Calling any Surrey GT12/TC or Micro Racers.

Trying to start up a club in Surrey. Check this out, get in touch and let us know your interest!!

If anyone can post this as much as possible in the relevant communities, would be hugely appreciated.

facebook.com/SORCCC

Best Wishes
Stuart

SlowOne

18-06-2015, 07:05 PM

So pleased this thread is providing so much use to the GT12 newbies..
Keep it going lads! I will be back with more questions no doubt soon... (Oh joy I hear?!)

StuOh joy...! (Is your driving better than your hearing yet Stu?!!!)

Only kidding. Glad this thread is proving useful to so many people. :thumbsup:

stucartwright

18-06-2015, 08:45 PM

That must be northern humour.... haha
Look forward to seeing what I've got by the time winter comes around and the nationals!! Am sure you won't be under threat.. Or might you?! haha

SlowOne

19-06-2015, 06:39 PM

I would never make so bold as to predict a result with someone I only know on the 'net. Look forward to meeting you Stu, and whatever the result we will have some (GT12) fun!

stucartwright

19-06-2015, 09:53 PM

Definitely!!
This GT12 lark is amazing... You've all been so helpful. Is it easy to get your name down on the GT12 nationals list? Or does booking in go seriously fast?

northernerbill

19-06-2015, 10:36 PM

Just wondering, if any of you guys have bought the Lipo strap hop up, and then also bought the low pivot conversion only to find its now too tall.

So just wondering what you've done, are going to do or if a new strap is coming soon.

Pic shows height of the up stands with the strap played next to it at the height wants to be at.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd395/Northernerbill/7EC16F2B-D338-4FFD-96F8-7034CAD52A2B_zpsupktbels.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Northernerbill/media/7EC16F2B-D338-4FFD-96F8-7034CAD52A2B_zpsupktbels.jpg.html)

stucartwright

20-06-2015, 06:54 AM

What I did was pad out the strap, with a bit of foam so it reaches down to the strap. Lots of guys I've seen have machines down those posts so the strap fits flush. Too much like hard work for me. The padding works great, can send pick when I'm home tonight if nobody offers up anything better.

If you've not tried the lower rear pod yet, it's the biggest hop up ever. The handling goes from an articulated lorry to an F1 car. Bring on even more fun!

shinytopman

20-06-2015, 02:51 PM

Hi Northernerbill,

What i did with mine was replace the two screws with 30mm x m3 (the long suspension spring screws).
Replaced the 6mm x 3mm plastic spacers with ally ones (got from ebay) to stop the crushing/bulging.
Ontop of the bar i fitted a 5mm x 3mm ally spacers. M3 nut ontop to hold it all down tight.
Battery strap fits perfectly the right height after that and fasterned down with an M3 thumbnuts from ebay, (HPI do nice ally ones cant remember the part number off hand).

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t34.0-12/11118536_398296500356451_2007078128_n.jpg?oh=94b90 c53376ce8aa3096e444d00b4189&oe=55888807

HTH's Shiny

northernerbill

20-06-2015, 05:16 PM

Great ideas.

I have swapped the rear most 3mm plastic spacers for RC4WD 3mm alloy spacers

Then swapped out the forward 6mm plastic spacers for RC4WD 5mm alloy spacers, so that boom is 1mm lower or probably 1/2mm lower due to plastic compression.

Then I have fitted thick foam to the lipo brace which is gripping the battery very well.

Whilst tinkering on this lot I noticed the two plastic ball arms that run fwd to back either side of the battery slot caused the rear axle to have play. My kit is essentially brand new having done one meeting, and balls being removed for todays work. So I opted to fit the blue O rings on all the ball joints which has removed this, knowing it affects damping I figured an axle running true is the better option.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd395/Northernerbill/58F18CC4-D087-42E0-9CFE-D29ED3759F0E_zpstp9sldj1.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Northernerbill/media/58F18CC4-D087-42E0-9CFE-D29ED3759F0E_zpstp9sldj1.jpg.html)

SlowOne

20-06-2015, 06:46 PM

Definitely!!
This GT12 lark is amazing... You've all been so helpful. Is it easy to get your name down on the GT12 nationals list? Or does booking in go seriously fast?Booking in is via the BRCA website. It does go reasonably fast, but if you get on there within a day or so you're pretty much good for a place.

We discussed this today at the EGM and I hope everyone will be pleased with the National diary and venues once the Committee has it all sorted and published.

Provisionally you can expect a drivers information pack to announce the series and give the relevant information and the target date for booking in to open on the BRCA site in plenty of time for the first event It is intended that pack will be mailed to all BRCA members so if your information is up to date on brca.org then you should get one.

My advice is to make sure your brca.org information is up to date, to try and log on and get to the event entry area to be sure you can see any current entry areas. If you have any issue with that mail the contact on the site and get it sorted. You'll be pretty p*&^d off if it doesn't work on the day!!

Someone will make sure information is posted here, but keep an eye on brca.org for the definitive information. HTH :)

stucartwright

20-06-2015, 06:56 PM

Top info SlowOne...
Many thanks.. Only joined a few months ago, so all info is up to date.. Look forward to getting involved in the nationals...

stucartwright

21-06-2015, 06:27 AM

On that same note lads.
What transponder do you recommend? Want to get my own obviously. Is MRT simply the best?

mark christopher

21-06-2015, 11:11 AM

This car needs the o rings removing from the side links, when using the side dampers that are not needed, and prevent the side dampers working properly.

Great ideas.

I have swapped the rear most 3mm plastic spacers for RC4WD 3mm alloy spacers

Then swapped out the forward 6mm plastic spacers for RC4WD 5mm alloy spacers, so that boom is 1mm lower or probably 1/2mm lower due to plastic compression.

Then I have fitted thick foam to the lipo brace which is gripping the battery very well.

Whilst tinkering on this lot I noticed the two plastic ball arms that run fwd to back either side of the battery slot caused the rear axle to have play. My kit is essentially brand new having done one meeting, and balls being removed for todays work. So I opted to fit the blue O rings on all the ball joints which has removed this, knowing it affects damping I figured an axle running true is the better option.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd395/Northernerbill/58F18CC4-D087-42E0-9CFE-D29ED3759F0E_zpstp9sldj1.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Northernerbill/media/58F18CC4-D087-42E0-9CFE-D29ED3759F0E_zpstp9sldj1.jpg.html)

shinytopman

21-06-2015, 12:49 PM

Hi Stu,

The responsible thing to say is get a mylaps transponder. Best is a hybrid as its backwards compatable from RC4 to the older timing system (RC2 and RC3).
The number you get if you buy new is allocated only to you but you will need to move it from car to car.

Or

You can get an MRT one they are clones and use cloned numbers from old units so 1 transponder has 11 numbers to chose from ( 1 main and ten alternatives numbers, in the VERY rare situation that you get a number conflict).

If you phone MRT they can do you 2 (or however many you need) transponders with the same main number so in affect 1 number for all your cars.
If you get MRT get the newer RC4 compatable ones that covers you for wherever you wanna race.

PS did i mention they are also cheaper and support is second to none!

So for me its a no brainer.
(All mine and Toms car are equiped with small black, gold lettered beauties. :thumbsup:)

HTH's.
Shiny

stucartwright

21-06-2015, 04:05 PM

Mark
Did I understand you right...if you have side dampers the plastics struts seen in the car above need to be removed as they are no longer necessary?

stucartwright

21-06-2015, 04:07 PM

Scrap that... Just read your message for the fifth time, understand. You are not suggesting this but merely stating the O rings are not needed if you have a side damper kit.

northernerbill

21-06-2015, 04:46 PM

Yeh thats why I made a point with regards to "my" car. I understand they are to removed if you have the damper hop up and by me adding them back today I've immediately noticed how much stiffer the rear end is.

I have removed them again, BUT my only reason for fitting was the ball joints are loose enough to cause slop in the rear end in a fwd/backward left/right direction, which is amplified towards the axle area.

My reasoning was it was better to have a car that travels straight/true reliably rather than potentially wandering due to that rear end play. I rolled the arms off the balls when I removed them (one time only) and the car is new.

My sons car is new too and never had the balls removed and his has the same play, guessing its within tolerances so just me going overboard.:eh?:

SlowOne

21-06-2015, 06:35 PM

stucartwright

21-06-2015, 06:47 PM

Slowone; so to conclude. You are saying keep the struts on and place bag plastic over ball joint and then pop them back on??

shinytopman

21-06-2015, 07:10 PM

Disconnect the ball and socket place the plastic bag over the ball of the joint then refit the socket of the strut. Thus leaving a small bit of plastic bag inside the socket to act as a shim.

northernerbill

21-06-2015, 07:15 PM

Take a thin plastic bag, one of those cheap ones you get parts in, not a thick one. Place the bag over the ball and pop the socket on.

As you pop the socket on it will cut a piece out of the bag that stays in the socket and removes the play. Check carefully that the ball joint is free (any binding will hurt the handling) and if it tightens up find a thinner bag. Cling film won't work it will stick to the ball! If you can't make it perfect, do one ball joint at one end of the arm. That will halve the problem.

I am like you, I hate things like this that are not perfect. However, in practice it will make no difference to the car. If you take all the play out you may find the car more difficult to drive - pan cars like a bit of play in some areas. Don't sweat a small amount of play, it won't hurt.

Or, play around with the plastic bag trick until you reach nirvana. Take the bag with you in the pit box. Each time you pop the ball off for repair or maintenance, repeat the bag trick. Make sure that the old bit of bag is not still in the socket or the ball joint will be too stiff to work - that one I learnt form experience! HTH :)

Excellent tip, doubt I'd ever have thought of that lol. TBH the rear play is no worse then the front ball joint play in the steering arms which we live with.

I actually currently find these a bit trickier to set up. Coming from 1/8th off road racing, and 1/10th touring cars they both essentially have the same mechanical/moveable principals where as these cars are a tad different.

I drove mine for the very first time at my last meeting and apart from being a bit too slow on the long straight thought it handled fantastically, tight, responsive, and nimble, going round the course on rails compared to touring cars on tarmac.

SlowOne

22-06-2015, 08:57 PM

Stu, Mr. STM has got it so I hope you get it too. Come back if not.

Bill, always glad to help! I'd like to tell you I thought that up on my own. Sadly... ;)

northernerbill

23-06-2015, 08:42 PM

Stu, Mr. STM has got it so I hope you get it too. Come back if not.

Bill, always glad to help! I'd like to tell you I thought that up on my own. Sadly... ;)

Haha thank you anyway.

Right then next queeries.

Last night I christened my Tyre Truer reducing the rears to 46mm (being the largest people recommended) and 45.5mm on the fronts. Rounded the corners and applied the contact tyre decals for the protection.

Ok so then I got out the ride height gauge aiming for 4.5mm at the rear and 4mm at the front, again based on info here and elsewhere.

Not suggesting they are correct and maybe coupled together very bad but thats what I ended up at last night.

I have the front independent suspension set up and found it quite straight forward balancing the O ring damping against spring compression to get the desired height.

The rear however through in the extra variant of the single rear central grub screw which I'm guessing is two things...pivot point and sag adjustment. I wound the grub screw all the way out, and then adjusted the springs until it increased the ride height to 4.5mm. I then wound in the grub screw until it contacted the chassis whilst unloaded.
So it has no sag currently and under load or not loaded looks like this from the back, any corrections, advice and how too's much appreciated as ever. I have blues on the rear and greens on the front.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd395/Northernerbill/6DC72D29-100F-4CA2-B78E-25EEDC17289E_zpslwpryhzm.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Northernerbill/media/6DC72D29-100F-4CA2-B78E-25EEDC17289E_zpslwpryhzm.jpg.html)

Thanking you in advance

SlowOne

24-06-2015, 06:41 PM

Bill, you're coming at this from the right end, so here's a bit more information...

Ride height is ride height and you've got that sorted. There is a slight 'curved ball' with the front end - your static ride height is also your static castor. You need to get both as close as you can to where you need to be.

Start with the static castor. With the car on the ground, fully laden, use a camber gauge to measure the static castor - the angle of the kingpin to the ground. I usually start at four degrees.

Wind the downstop grub screws well away from the chassis. Adjust the nut on top if the spring until you get four degrees castor. Adjust both nuts the same and together otherwise it all goes pear-shaped! Now wind the downstop grub screws all the way in until they just touch the chassis.

As a rule of thumb more castor means less turn-in but the car will exit the corner well, and less castor gives more turn in but less steering coming out. Find a balance you like and adjust it to the track features as you see fit.

Next, change the washers above and below the steering block until you have your ride height right. We're done here for now.

At the rear wind the centre downstop screw well away from the chassis. Adjust the springs until you have about 2mm of 'sag' or 'droop' (I call it droop) in the chassis. Car fully laden, adjust the springs until the chassis sits with 2mm of movement when you pull it up to the stops. Now screw the downstop down until it just touches the chassis.

Using the eccentric inserts, get the ride height you need.

Now you should have a car at the right ride height on which the suspension at both ends does not drop down when you lift it off the table/pit board. It should have the ride height you want at both ends. Get it like that before we get to the next bit.

You can now set the droop at both ends by unwinding the downstops. As a rule of thumb start with 1mm at both ends. Unwind the screws evenly on both sides, lift the car up until the downstops touch the chassis and slide in your ride-height gauge. 1mm droop means that what reads 4mm on your ride-being gauge ready to race goes up to 5mm when you lift the car up until the downstops touch the chassis with the wheels still on the ground.

Now you can tune the handling. Rear droop will give you weight transfer to the front - the more droop the more weight transfer but the longer it takes the car to settle as you come off the throttle to turn in. I run 1mm, David Gale runs 0mm as he likes the fast reaction he gets when turning. We both increase this if the track is bumpy as it smooths out the ride.

Front droop is usually left alone - 1mm seems to work for everyone.

The rear downstop is not a pivot. If it touches the chassis during roll you have something else wrong! As the car rolls it will sink into the suspension so the downstop won't touch. It will touch a lot in bump as the car moves up and down over bumps. Try adjusting rear droop and see what you like to have for your driving style.

I hope that helps, but where my explanation is obscure shout up and I'll have another go! HTH :)

mark christopher

24-06-2015, 08:08 PM

Haha thank you anyway.

Right then next queeries.

Last night I christened my Tyre Truer reducing the rears to 46mm (being the largest people recommended) and 45.5mm on the fronts. Rounded the corners and applied the contact tyre decals for the protection.

Ok so then I got out the ride height gauge aiming for 4.5mm at the rear and 4mm at the front, again based on info here and elsewhere.

Not suggesting they are correct and maybe coupled together very bad but thats what I ended up at last night.

I have the front independent suspension set up and found it quite straight forward balancing the O ring damping against spring compression to get the desired height.

The rear however through in the extra variant of the single rear central grub screw which I'm guessing is two things...pivot point and sag adjustment. I wound the grub screw all the way out, and then adjusted the springs until it increased the ride height to 4.5mm. I then wound in the grub screw until it contacted the chassis whilst unloaded.
So it has no sag currently and under load or not loaded looks like this from the back, any corrections, advice and how too's much appreciated as ever. I have blues on the rear and greens on the front.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd395/Northernerbill/6DC72D29-100F-4CA2-B78E-25EEDC17289E_zpslwpryhzm.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Northernerbill/media/6DC72D29-100F-4CA2-B78E-25EEDC17289E_zpslwpryhzm.jpg.html)

Thanking you in advance

Refers to the manual for axle spcers and rider height, you have way too much spring pre load.

northernerbill

24-06-2015, 08:46 PM

Mark I'll answer you first :blush: TOTALLY forgot about this, had the 3 dots in, swapped to 2 dots and the preload is sorted along with ride height:thumbsup:

SlowOne. Mate thats a brilliant break down of it and I totally get it (for now, till I think of a new issue I'm unable to even comprehend yet:) )

I had to tweek your front description a tad as with having the front independent suspension (I don't think) you adjust castor at all (just camber with the shims) you don't even have the grub screws for travel limit. Its purely adjusting the spring in conjunction with the O ring to set ride height and droop.

Belting though as I now have ride height, droop (where wanted), well you get the picture.

Thanking you's:thumbsup:

shinytopman

24-06-2015, 10:33 PM

Hi Bill,
You might also wanna try moving your rear springs to the outer holes, rather than the inner holes.

SlowOne

25-06-2015, 07:14 AM

Bill, same thing applies if it is the independent front end, you just do one side at a time. Get the four degrees castor sorted on both sides. Also, make sure that the amount of compression on the front springs is pretty much even on both sides - check how much thread is sticking out of the bolt as a useful guide.

Yes, if you change the camber strap you need to check it all through again, especially the toe in/out on the steering.

Note Mark's point too. Move the springs to the outer hole. If you are running the kit pivot height start with blue springs, if you are running the lowered pivot conversion try starting with yellow springs. Remember that when the grip is high you want to soften the car so it rolls in to the corner and lowers the CofG. Making the car harder will cause it to jack up and grip roll.

Using softer tyres has the effect of softening the spring rate. I will often leave the front springs as they are and go to a softer tyre when the front grip is up as it has a similar effect as using a softer spring. If you run your tyres down in the low 40s then this doesn't help as much. HTH :)

Xracer

25-06-2015, 05:12 PM

An excellent 'how to' SlowOne, if only Schumacher had you writing the instruction notes there would be more happy racers out there! :thumbsup:

I just wish Schumacher would now fix the slipping diff drive ring with the 'D' ring solution that has been around for donkey's years on LMP's! Yes my diff is built as instructed!
Oh, and a finger hole in the chassis to access the motor to help make gear mesh easier!

I'm sure others may be suffering some of the above niggles too.:thumbdown:

northernerbill

26-06-2015, 08:46 PM

Yep cheers guys this has been a massive help, its all well and good being new to this class, building the thing, being new at a club and then slowly getting areas of the car better as you dare to ask, but nothing beats maybe having the car a good way there near the start.

Here she is and thanks to you.:thumbsup:

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd395/Northernerbill/072A0B82-C2F3-4E85-AE2F-182AEDE0237D_zpspodasdsu.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Northernerbill/media/072A0B82-C2F3-4E85-AE2F-182AEDE0237D_zpspodasdsu.jpg.html)

Xracer

27-06-2015, 01:24 PM

Well all looks neat and organised but just one minor observation, why take the power leads all the way across the car? The shortest, lightest and most efficient route is to the left hand side surely!
80543
Just to illustrate.

northernerbill

27-06-2015, 02:53 PM

Yeh I hear you I just hate chopping ESC cables down short incase I want to use them elsewhere...........but doubt that will ever happen with this ESC, its so car specific.

stucartwright

27-06-2015, 05:07 PM

So good to see newbie using this thread with affect...
Personally I wouldn't worry about the length of the cables, the difference won't be noticed when you race, purely cosmetic in my experience. Looks very smart and let the fun begin!

I've been away for almost a month working and tomorrow sees me return to West Kent for a very exciting time, my pal has his new GT12 car, also equally excited.

I am amazed quite frankly at how the new RW racing spur gear and pinion I got, mesh, to reduce my car to almost silence when I test it on the road nearby. It's amazing. Added to the new diff balls and increased side damper oil thickness, looking forward to seeing how she runs.

Will check in Sunday with an update, happy racing lads!!

mark christopher

27-06-2015, 08:07 PM

The core spurs are made by rw.

I'd shorten the wire and fit 16 guage, alot lighter more flexible and very capable of carrying the current, personally I'd also loose the ifs and stick with the kit beam.

stucartwright

27-06-2015, 08:38 PM

Don't do it...
Keep the IFS, they're great!!
:thumbsup:

northernerbill

28-06-2015, 11:25 AM

Yeh rightly or wrongly I'm leaving my IFS on, I've even got a second set to fit to my son's or as a spare for mine.

As I said earlier to me the car handled superbly even with all my incorrect settings, un-trued tyres, so am chomping at the bit to drive it now.

mark christopher

28-06-2015, 12:42 PM

your call but its not quicker than kit beam and it was designed for oval...

stucartwright

28-06-2015, 03:14 PM

Well my car has performed better with it than without the Ifs so it's staying! :thumbsup:

Xracer

29-06-2015, 11:29 AM

Interesting and diverse views on the front end setup and a topic that has been discussed before but without a real conclusion I believe.
I am aware that experimentation with beam width to change the anti-roll stiffness has also been attempted by some drivers too, again inconclusive as far as I can determine but I have not been that close to the racing action for a few months.
I have always felt that the standard beam is a bit too stiff and possibly prone to tweaking after any impact, whereas the IFS I suspect should not suffer this effect.
I also suspect that this debate will remain polarised between drivers and we may never reach a conclusive state. :confused:

stucartwright

29-06-2015, 07:45 PM

Absolutely agree Xracer..
Of course there will be some on here that will say, it makes my car faster, my car slower, it was designed for this and designed for that; until some form of drone car without the human element (which will never happen) can be utilised, no one persons view is universally correct..
But it does make for interesting debate...
The IFS for my money however, does seem much simpler to set for a newbie like me, and anything simpler gets the thumbs up from me!!

mark christopher

29-06-2015, 09:14 PM

Ifs easier to set up?

Caster is same time to set, droop is same on mine as I have droop screws in my Ifs,

camber,two screws and swap top plate on kit beam, Ifs is disassemble and add or remove spacers. Then reset droop.making Ifs more complicated.

I class the fact that the team and the test drivers have all concluded the kit beam is better. Far more feed back than a clone, though some of thier cars lap times are that similar they could be computer driven

stucartwright

30-06-2015, 07:20 PM

Each to their own Mark... You crack on with the kit, not for me!

stucartwright

01-07-2015, 11:44 AM

Report on the Sunday racing at West Kent for me was yet again major improvement.
Firstly, Shinytopman who is without doubt the most kind hearted of them all as far as helping along a newbie, trued a set of tyres for me... First it looks like you have a set of fronts on the back, haha, but the handling I found quite strange. Made th car so responsive and gave the feel of way more sensitivity from the stick (steering) which I initially thought was a negative. But actually, the car was more grippy and allowed the change of direction to be far less of an ordeal and gave me a a small sniff of qualifying for an A final... Heady hieghts for a guy like me at what was a very busy West Kent.

I will definitely be investing in a truer over the next few weeks to come...

Secondly, a great tip for the front of the McLaren body which I have yet to read about which Shinytopman helped me with, was padding out the nose of the McLaren shell to stop it flexing on the corners due to the SSGT posts that make the front end flex and flick the carpet on cornering.

Made yet again more performance gains, adding to a fabulous race meeting. I'll be off to Maritime Thursday to get in some valuable practice and hope to make more gains and sniff an A final (yeh right!!)

In the end, I finished second in the B Final at WKRCC literally missing out by a win by four feet. I had fest places card marked, if it wasn't for a slightly over zealous push which cost me it would have topped one of my most enjoyable meets.

If like me you turn up and see millions of people with huge tables, 8 chargers, pitt lights, surgical gloves, team race wear and a stable of cars, fear not... Small stationary boxes, car, charger and a few tools deliver what is four hours of total fun for a cost of £4, stop it... I concur the best things in life (after investment) are for free (well four quid!!)

Best Wishes
Stu

SlowOne

02-07-2015, 08:16 PM

I just wish Schumacher would now fix the slipping diff drive ring with the 'D' ring solution that has been around for donkey's years on LMP's! Yes my diff is built as instructed!

I'm sure others may be suffering some of the above niggles too.:thumbdown:Try this...

With some 400 grit 'wet 'n dry' paper, scuff up the side of the ring that contacts the aluminium hubs on the axle and wheel. Do the same to the those aluminium hubs, but just enough to remove the sheen of the anodising, not to remove it. Clean all surfaces well and re-assemble.

If that doesn't fix it, then clean those surfaces you just scuffed thoroughly and fix the washer to the hubs with superglue. They will come unstuck eventually so keep an eye on the diff and clean/reglue at each rebuild. That WILL fix it!

Well all looks neat and organised but just one minor observation, why take the power leads all the way across the car? The shortest, lightest and most efficient route is to the left hand side surely!
80543
Just to illustrate.It's not as simple as that. The cell has a gap where the connectors are so the weight is to one side. As the servo and receiver don't usually balance the offset of the speedo, it is usual to place the cell so that the connectors are on the left of the car.

That way, the offset of the cell in the casing helps to balance the weight across the chassis. It's standard practice in LMP12 for that reason.

No biggie, but if you check your chassis balance from side-to-side and it's off by a bit, swapping the battery position should fix it.

Interesting and diverse views on the front end setup and a topic that has been discussed before but without a real conclusion I believe.
I am aware that experimentation with beam width to change the anti-roll stiffness has also been attempted by some drivers too, again inconclusive as far as I can determine but I have not been that close to the racing action for a few months.
I have always felt that the standard beam is a bit too stiff and possibly prone to tweaking after any impact, whereas the IFS I suspect should not suffer this effect.
I also suspect that this debate will remain polarised between drivers and we may never reach a conclusive state. :confused:Prone to tweaking... a bloody great bit of CFRP like that? Let me put it this way - in gas turbines we use CFRP half that thickness under much more arduous conditions and it doesn't take up a new shape through static, dynamic or thermal loads.

That piece of the car is never going to tweak - ever. Even thinned down ones won't do that. CFRP is either going to take the loads, or break. That piece of the car is looking at you and saying "come on then, give me some load if you're hard enough!" So you crash it at 30 mph into a solid barrier and it says "you'll have to try harder than that!" You get the idea... :D

That is not a reason to go back to the beam. Views are only polarised amongst us mere mortals. The aces are quite clear - the beam is faster. So stick to your guns and run what makes you feel the car is giving you a big smile because in the end that's why we mere mortals do this stupid hobby!! :thumbsup:

Stu, glad to hear the car is still giving you a challenge that you are clearly mastering. Who cares where we finish - did we have fun and did we have a great race against our mates - you bet ya! HTH :)

stucartwright

03-07-2015, 10:29 AM

Ok NEWSFLASH... Had a brilliant night at Maritime, crikey my car was on form and I do believe the driving equally blossomed as the cars handling is improving.

I have to mention the most humbling positive words from Ian Knight of Maritime saying "your car is seriously quick" followed by, "your car has definitely found its sweetspot" I certainly glowed when hearing these very encouraging words...

I also have to mention, in the B Final I took out Mr Knight twice, once during the infield and second at the end of the back straight (clearly I needed a higher speed crash) which caused him to go from leading to third, huge apologies Ian, as I may have said a few times during and after the race.

Gosh what a great bunch of guys at Maritime; made my buddy "G Spot" feel hugely welcome, especially after we worked out he had only done a total of 30minutes track time in total, a really confidence boosting experience for him too.

He and I are off to Rayleigh Raceway Wednesday to both do some further testing and more track time for him and his car.

The transponder turned up this morning, ordered some ceramic bearings, which may see an end to purchasing anymore hop ups for the foreseeable future. What a hobby, on the way home G Spot and I were like a couple of fifteen year olds talking about all the highs and lows of what was yet another 4hours of non stop thrills and spills at £5... It simply gets no better.

Huge thanks Maritime, huge thanks GT12...

Over and out....

northernerbill

04-07-2015, 07:52 PM

When it comes from the top "Mark" I needed to listen so have gone back to the stock front suspension set up, and am looking forward to driving it soon.

northernerbill

05-07-2015, 11:29 AM

Something that we all need to decide on is our Motor and ESC combo. Largely driven by budget and then what you've seen other people using.

What would people say about performance and budget on these. You could say you've seen people trounce high budget cars using basic gear etc but let's put those thoughts aside and just put forward your ideal choices if you could or do run them sat against different budgets we all have individually.

So based on the above

ESC priced at or up to £50, £70, £100

Motor priced at or up to £50, £70, £100

stucartwright

05-07-2015, 04:15 PM

To be competitive its a no brainer...
Toro1s Esc £80
Thunder Power 13.5T £60

The motor is the pretty much the same across the board, such good performance and you can get all the spares you like, and also different rotors. As for the ESC, a lot use the Hobbywing 3.1v which is around £150 but I have yet to have anyone say definitively why its the best as yet..

shinytopman

05-07-2015, 07:20 PM

The Turnigy Trackstar Gen2 1cell is a great buy if your on a budget £34 plus P&P (from hobbyking, dont buy from international warehouse, ONLY UK or europe) These are dedicated 1cell speedo's.

Or (not used one) but according to reports the team powers 40amp speedo is ok. It comes with a programe box for £47 plus P&P. This is a 2cell speedo but it seems to work ok on a 1cell Lipo without a booster if your servo is not to power hungry.

But for sheer ease of use i'd go for a dedicated 1cell speedo.

Motors. The only ones you ever hear about are either Thunder Power or Trinity (D4 or Killshot)

SlowOne

07-07-2015, 07:50 PM

It's easy to think you can buy power, but the reality is that driving skill is the true differentiator in pan car classes. You just cannot mask bad driving with a fat wallet!

At the GT Nationals you can see just about every combination of motor and speedo in the top 20. On any given day if one driver finds the sweet spot of their car and the track, they will beat any other car that isn't on the sweet spot.

For mere mortals there is more speed to be found from a good LiPo and good driving than almost any speedo/motor combo. Get a good timing/gearing set-up from a good driver using your motor and speedo, slap it onto the car and see what happens.

The Hobbywing speedos seem to have an edge on throttle feel and acceleration - at the top end they are all the same. As I like to say, the HW speedos 'blink' faster than others!

Nothing will substitute for a good LiPo. I have been through four 'cheap' VapexTech cells, three of which go like the clappers and one of which is noticeably slower. The good ones are excellent, but after about ten runs the bad one just dropped out. Given to a club racer they would never know the difference - racing against the best it is a clear half-lap slower over six minutes.

I agree with Stu, that combo is as good as any. As Stu found out, giving them a good LiPo to feed off is the key to a car that "is seriously quick." In the end, almost any combo in the hands of Mark Stiles or Adam Catchpole-Walker will make us mere mortals look slow - just learn to drive fast if you want to go fast! ;)

northernerbill

08-07-2015, 08:23 AM

Thanks guys,

Yeh Slowone I hear you and agree but you kind of answered in the way I was trying to avoid, I knew it would be said but I just wanted to get down to brass tacks on what is an ideal purchase. You can't drive a car with no motor and esc using purely skill, one combo or another has to be in the car.

You might be a total newb to racing, you might be born to race and pick it up instantly, you might be seasoned in other classes.
On top of this you might be a teenager spending your saturday jobs wages on this or you might be a company director with money to burn etc.
You might be looking to buy the more expensive gear second hand on eBay or here on Oople, you might not.

Agreed again on practice, agreed a good driver can win with anything in the right environment but again a purchase of some type has to be made.

The point was all the above aside what would people recommend on the budgets I put forward which for me represent the kind of budgets we might or would actually be forced to have when buying new.

Please take nothing negative from this, as I'm typing smiling but just wanted my question to be read in the right way:thumbsup:

stucartwright

08-07-2015, 09:01 AM

Northernbill, a point really well made.. It is often reposted as just drive better, but from my humble/limited experience, I would never have improved at the rate I have without having spent money and time on my car with the various hop ups, new lipos, batteries and motors.

It is all about the driving, but there is major advancements to a persons driving if the car has the ability to go around the track balanced.

I appreciate this is a class trying to steer away from people believing there needs to be money spent on the kit cars, if you want that class GT12 is not it in my opinion. The cars handle like turnips when they come out the box, "compared" to all the hop ups applied.

At the heart of racing is everyone wants to "compete", "get better" and one day "win" so its a product of the class where hops ups ARE available that make people spend the money on getting better. With this in mind, budgets come in to play but there is in my mind a very clear and concise way to getting your SSGT (because I have not had a zen) to a spec that will race really well and then and only then (in my opinion) do you sit back and race the car and get better at driving...

I expect a reply will come in the form of Mark Stiles could drive an out the box car bla bla, but I have many years of being a performance coach that will be able to justify why this is the case.. Not to go on.. but this is a little hobby, full of grown up kids that want a bit of fun...

Embrace the competition, and embrace the fact people want to get better and want to spend money along the way if they so choose...

Equally, I hope this is taken in the very positive and exciting light it is meant to be; because so far, I have had such fun with GT12. Long may it continue...

Off to Rayleigh RC Track this afternoon for some practice with my pals....

Over and out!

SlowOne

09-07-2015, 08:27 PM

Great points guys so we'll not mention the driving bit again - point taken!! :)

If it were my money...

HW v3.1 1S 120A speedo mated to a Trinity D4/Hirosaka/Dynamite Platinum motor with VapexTech LiPo

...and it was my money so that is what I have (Hirosaka motor) and it works really well. Yes, IMHO there is a difference between the pricier stuff and the lower-priced options. If you're in Stu and Bill's camp then these are the things to go for. Motors and speedos turn up every so often on here, and there is always a well-known auction site to search. The VapexTech cells are best bought new from Vapex - their site is easy to use. HTH :)

Gnarly Old Dog

11-07-2015, 07:39 AM

Great thread chaps - very useful thank you.
Purchased a SSGT four weeks ago and am loving it. Haven't done any racing for nearly two years and got the itch again - you know how it is :woot:
Anyway - I digress.
@slowone - I am in a similar quandry to Bill - am running an LRP SXX v2 in blinky with a Dynamite 13.5T with about 35 deg advance on the can. Is there much difference between the HW and the SkyRC or the GForce? Apologies if this has been asked before but they all look to be uncannily similar in looks/construction - is the firmware between them any different and is it only the HW branded one that blinks faster;)?
Reason I ask is that in my old age, I'm in need of an ESC to help me go backwards when the track markers leap out at me
Cheers
A

SlowOne

11-07-2015, 06:36 PM

The LRP is fine. It wasn't on my list as it isn't current. I suggest you up the timing on the Dynamite to 38 to 40 deg and gear about 65/66mmpr. If it is still cold then time up a smidge. If you like the timing where it is then go up a couple of mmpr.

I don't know enough about these speedos, except that they all use different firmware. I think the reality is that the component quality in these is a bit better than the old LRP SXX v2 hence them being a bit faster in the blink.

The Dynamite motors are underrated in my view. I sold one some time ago and regret it. The Hirosaka motor (Zen Racing) is good, and I have a GForce 10.5 in my 12th car that is also good. In reality it is all about finding the sweet spot for any motor, so sometimes a lesser motor is better than a good one outside that sweet spot.

For a reverse speedo, I'd be tempted to go for the GForce with a program box. Zen will set it up for you when you order so you can get it set just right. However, once you have reverse available it doesn't help improve your driving when you know you can just back out of trouble. Give the markers a wider berth and try getting closer rather than hitting them and backing out, you'll get better, faster.

Yes, I have a degree in Stating the Bleeding Obvious from the University of Absolutely Nowhere! HTH :)

stucartwright

12-07-2015, 09:52 AM

SlowOne...
What are your thoughts on a Reedy Mach 2? I see Mark Stiles powers his car with one...

Best Wishes
Stu

Xracer

12-07-2015, 12:38 PM

Mark is a Reedy sponsored driver, amongst his many 'suppliers' with him being one of the UK's best drivers.

Having said that I have used Reedy motors for years and they have always served me well and have a mach 2 in my LMP.

stucartwright

12-07-2015, 12:44 PM

Yep appreciate he is a reedy driver...
Just wanted to know how much better than a thunder power it is...

SlowOne

12-07-2015, 03:33 PM

It's a good motor, but it's not great. I have one and it is eclipsed by the Hirosaka and Killshot motors I have. In a GT12 one might find the Mach 1 a better bet. ;)

I understand there are new motors coming from Reedy, so if you are tempted by a cheap second-hand one give it a go. If you want to splash the cash, keep it in your wallet for now. Not only are there better motors for GT12 cars now, but Reedy has rarely made their new motors worse than their old ones. ;)

stucartwright

24-07-2015, 06:55 AM

It's been a while, busy racing my little GT12 and she's been going great guns, very happy indeed.

Last night I may have accidentally drop my debit card on the counter of Colin Bliss models and purchased a Zen!! Ooops... Oh, and I did purchase a Trinty D4 Maxzilla motor a few days ago too, which is immense!!

Now, Shinytopman recommended me upgrading my handset from my Core RC (sticks)... Please, I would love to know what I should buy and what the benefits are of these more expensive trannys. What will I feel different to what I have now.... It looks like this little sport has taken over my life, and my money!!

Look forward to hearing your recommendations.
All the best
Stuart

rossiracer

24-07-2015, 07:36 AM

Hi there stu New to thread I had a code radio and swapped it for a Sanwa Gemini what a difference felt better in the Hands faster response u will not regret buying one if u go down this route yes the receivers are a little expensive but u can get them from hobbyking now and the handset is about £140 at Mb models that's a bargain for a handset with all the same bits on as the more expensive models it's the best money I ever spent

SlowOne

24-07-2015, 06:56 PM

Stu, Futaba (3VCS or the new 4-something) and Sanwa (Exzes) are the most popular radios in LMP12 because they are more responsive (accuracy and speed) than others. Plenty of 3VCS on the For Sale section, and get it with the 2.4GHz module.

I am wedded to Futaba because it has never let me down. With the 3VCS you can use FRSky receivers that are £23 each and work perfectly. There isn't a cheap receiver alternative for that I know of, so the Hobbyking discount is probably your best bet. HTH :)

mark christopher

24-07-2015, 07:35 PM

Xracer

25-07-2015, 09:19 AM

Stu, the new Futaba T4GRS looks interesting and quite a few of my large scale racing buddies have now adopted it over their 3VCS.

SlowOne

25-07-2015, 02:28 PM

Hmmm other than the 1 is better than the 2...in 1S, not the same story in 2S. 1S is the class that no one designs motors for, because the volumes don't justify it. 2S is by far the dominant class so they are designed for that and the MachII is reportedly better than the MachI.

Xracer

25-07-2015, 05:54 PM

Isn't this getting a bit more confusing now as some motor manufacturers are supplying 1s specific stators, Trinity for the D4 for instance is the one I'm aware of and it alters the torque/rev characteristics.

stucartwright

25-07-2015, 06:39 PM

The new Zen, and my attempt at a snazzy paint job...

SlowOne

25-07-2015, 07:14 PM

Stu, good work! Hope it goes as good as it looks.

XRacer - it is only confusing if you let it be. Reality is that there are a few good motors out there, and even then some of the less good ones are as quick in the right hands. My experience is that the LiPo will let you down long before you can tell the difference between a 1S stator and a standard one. VapexTech LiPo on top form, Hirosaka motor geared and timed correctly and I am as quick on accel and top speed as anyone. HTH :)

Bosscat

26-07-2015, 09:08 PM

Stu,
Your earlier sentiments about the simple feel good factor of racing are well put. I have been racing model cars of of one sort or another for over 40 years staring with slot racing and moving onto RC later. I have always been a mid table racer and often think there is more fun to be had in mid table land than there is higher up if you see what I mean it's a case of knowing your limitations but not loosing the aspiration to be better. I race GT12 and LMP and on occasion a Tamiya Mini and for my sins am chairman of a club. I spend time setting up my cars and love the level of engineering involved. Each Week I arrive at the club hopeful I have the right setup and the car will go well and I will finally be carrying huge amounts of speed into the corners when I longer get that feeling then it will be time to stop.
You will find the Zen simply beautifully engineered and if you get any issues pop into to West Kent and ask Paul or David they are two of the most helpful guys you will find, but then ours is a sport that is full of caring helpful folk.
In terms of setting up the Zen I would advise checking the centre pivot to ensure it is not binding make sure your tyres are trued down I start at 44 front 46 rear and run a bead of superglue on each tyre wall. Then run it out of the box to see what is needed you'll find it won't be much.
Keith

Xracer

27-07-2015, 09:09 AM

No confusion on my behalf Stu but for newcomers there is and don't forget you were in that situation not so many months ago, seeking the advice of others to get your racing equipment and knowledge to the level it is today.

As for the Zen I'm sure you will be more than happy with it and it's relative simplicity compared to the SSGT but I did find my RSGT12 Race needed some work to get the front end as specified, this required some judicious sanding of the strut bases to achieve and match the 2 degree negative camber and ride height on each side!

I must admit the strut mouldings are not as good as the original Associated ones from the RC12E and its variants of many years back but the rest of the bits are nicely made!

Happy racing :thumbsup:

stucartwright

27-07-2015, 01:18 PM

Xracer, a little confused about the comment: "No confusion on my behalf"... did I say something that inspired confusion? Backed up with you saying, "don't forget you were in that situation not so many months ago" ? Looking back at my posts I don't see a comment that would inspire such remarks....

Look forward to uncrossing "our" wires..

Best wishes as ever...

Stu

Xracer

28-07-2015, 06:13 AM

Oops sorry to cause confusion Stu and nothing at all meant by my remarks. :blush:

What I am alluding to is the speed in which GT12 has risen from what was planned as a low cost, simplified and fun racing category into a burgeoning, ever more complex, very competitive and more costly one!

For us more 'seasoned' racers who have been in r/c model car racing since its very birth and dabbled in every category since, then it is no surprise at all, it has happened in every one to date.
There may be the odd exception to that of course as I don't want to fuel any debate that may ensue!

For the newcomer to GT12 there are now a plethora of options that can add greatly to the initial cost of that original good intention and as we are all competitive beasts, we all want the 'best' to remain so, irrespective of our own ability.

I hope that clarifies my unintentionally veiled comments, so happy racing in whatever category you choose to pursue and apologies again for any confusion! :thumbsup:

shinytopman

28-07-2015, 03:56 PM

Gt12 doesn't have to be silly expensive, it can be if you want to keep chasing the dream, or must always have the best (feel a bit hypocritical here seeing as i just converted to a Zen).

But i think Slow one elluded to it in another beginners thread,
Large bucket of patience including the "think twice, do once" handle
The small packet of common sense usually missing from most model shop shelves

The goal is to enjoy your racing, come off the rostrum with a smile on your face, share some laughs as well as help and tips with your fellow racers. And if your afflicted like me with useless thumb syndrome, realise your level and make the most and enjoy.
You cant buy talent sadly, but you can enjoy the sport and racing...

I hope that makes sence......LOL :thumbsup:

SlowOne

28-07-2015, 07:41 PM

XRacer, this is my view of the GT12 world...

There are two cars out there that work out of the box - the Zen and the Mardave. To that we might add the ORE as Tony Wade in my Shootout heat did well with his new car but I don't know if he had any extras on it. The Schumacher car does have a large range of necessary options now that makes it cost more than the others and could create the impression that the class is getting more complex and in the midst of an arms race.

My Zen came as a race kit, built, and needed only one modification to reduce the front camber plus some lead to make the weight and £5 of Mardave parts for the rear end. I bought three sets of tyres and one body. That car has raced all the GT Nationals, some clubbies and two Shootouts without one extra item being bought, and will do the same again judging by the tyre and body condition.

I cannot think of another class that costs £180 to get into for the car, £45 for tyres and £13 for a body and then goes roughly 40 races without another penny being spent on running costs. It's my choice to change the motor and experiment with front springs (I am back on the kit ones!) as well as having a go through the available additives.

Compared to the vision we had when the class started we've only compromised on the cost of the car. I would argue that those 'extras' make the cars better to drive and enhance the class, and none of them are things needing replacing during the life of the car. Everything else we hoped for we have in terms of cost, enjoyment of the racing and suitability to clubs and club racing. Those rules have allowed two new manufacturers to come into the Section, neither of whom have large R&D budgets - another good thing.

Additionally, the target price for a raceable car serves to keep the cost of the 'race' chassis' down - there isn't a whole host of things that are added to cars every year in the hope people will buy a new one as the costs cannot be recovered in high prices.

Low cost is about the initial purchase price, yes. But mainly it is about the running costs and those are lowest in GT12. Sure you can spend more, but I have placed where I belong in every race by spending no more than mentioned above.

Every new class has to settle down, and that is part of what is happening now. Zen and Mardave offer cars that go straight out of the box so that process has started. As sure as God made little green apples Schumacher will update their car and then it will be on the same level as the Zen and Mardave. At that point it will be a 'buy and race' class par excellence.

As usual, just my thoughts...

stucartwright

28-07-2015, 09:00 PM

SlowOne and Xracer have made very interesting comments and I wholeheartedly embrace what both of them have said.

Going back to my pal who recently went to West Kent and raced the club mini, proceeded to buy an SS and raced, if I'm honest with very little success. He has loved every single minute of the experience but interestingly two things have come out of it...

He regrets buying the SS (hasn't said it, but I can tell) it has been a problem child from the very outset. He purchased the starter set from Schumacher with the core RC esc etc to get him going. Yes it got him up and running but it came at much angst not knowing the ropes with many very irritating traites the car has/had. Tonight I am just back from building his newly purchased Zen, yes him too, and he said whilst we installed the electrics, (the second thing) he is hoping this car provides some consistency in performance and its reliability to perform to a standard that will allow him to build some confidence.

I suppose my point is, Zen and Mardave have to be recommended by the people who have been in this GT12 class for a significant time, SSGT is not for newbies, they simply handle like a dog until they are hopped up to any level. Anybody who says otherwise is kidding themselves. Zen on the other hand, yet to try mine yet, certainly appears to be different.

New blood into this hobby is key as with any interest, why make a product that does not embrace newbies and makes it uphill from the outset. So far, Zen and Mardave by the sounds of it do the opposite.

Let's try and flatline all drivers with the equipment and make it true driving only. Schumacher have got too technical in my opinion, nobody wants a car that has ridiculous amount of setups and options. Out the box, on the track and get stuck in. I know my newbie pal will be buzzing by the end of Thursday night at Maritime, not because he has setup ylhis car perfectly but merely purchased a product that allows him to enjoy the sport and see a way to improving his driving.

I truly have found a hobby that delivers total escapism from my work life and I am extremely grateful I have GT12 in my life, not everyone has persistence and drive to get better, I just wonder how many people GT12 has lost due to the SSGT being the car most recommended. I love/loved my SSGT but I wouldn't want to go back to the beginning and have to plough through all the options and find out what they will do for me. No way, not for me....

Roll on Thursday.....!!

Xracer

29-07-2015, 05:24 PM

Sorry about the pun guys but it looks like a few of us have now made the leap from the SSGT to an RSGT, if I had seen one before I bought my SS then it would have been my first choice for its pure simplicity and a proper 1/12th diff!

I have had fun racing the SSGT but also had many problems with it, inconsistent handling for various reasons but mostly due to the diff, so I discovered after some very close scrutiny.

Needless to say though the GT12 class has matured very quickly and given a lot of drivers some real fun, it has attracted many drivers from other categories too and is also appealing to the full age spectrum, long may it do so, it is low initial cost compared to TC's and OR's, long may it stay so!

SlowOne

29-07-2015, 07:01 PM

One thing characterises your view of the GT world as far as I can make out - it is new to you. Those if us who came from pan car classes to GT12 have had no trouble at all making any of these cars work.

I built my SS and raced it with a set-up from the Schumacher web site. Understanding how foam-tyre case behave I made a few small changes to suit tracks. The car was predictable, fast and totally reliable.

I had exactly the same experience with my SSGT and with my Zen. However, most people would not notice the subtleties of my set-up, nor the attention to detail of my build. I suspect that anyone moving in to any new class would experience these sort of 'growing' pains. That's what I passed on to you guys.

I think you are unfair on both the cars and the people when you put problems down to a wrong choice of car. Properly set up an SS 'RTR' kit will give hours of pleasure and I would wager that with a top ten driver they would beat you with your Zens.

If you really want fresh blood in GT12, then embrace their choice, help them get the best from it and help people get their cars built and set up for reliable racing.

XRacer is right - the class has matured quickly and it is a couple of years away from having got as much it can from the rules as set. Once that point is reached there will be three or four cars out there that go well straight out of the box.

I know you all want this class to succeed and to promote it through things like this thread and helping new drivers. However, dissing one car or praising another isn't the way to do that.

All the cars are good, it is how they are set up and driven that counts. That's where we come in - helping people get the best set-up and build on their car so that first driving experience is the beginning of a happy time racing GT12, whatever car they choose.

Let's get back on topic- we haven't had an excited Stu update on his racing for while. There is advice to be given!!

mark christopher

29-07-2015, 07:48 PM

stucartwright

30-07-2015, 05:53 AM

Interesting rebuttals from both Slowone and Mark Christopher; Mark, your choice of potty mouthed language on a forum that could be seen by younger generations is not something I wish to get involved with on a public forum, eloquence is clearly a direction you either don't know or wish to take, so I will choose to ignore your posting. Coming from someone who is clearly a bastion of the BRCA, I am not sure this type of reply would be something the federation would embrace? Maybe I'm wrong here, freedom of speech and experiences is everything this forum is here to express in the most polite and evidence based way.

Slowone, you were very lucky to have had the pan car training, once again this has no place when it comes to my observations and experiences, which unfortunately you have not gone through. Me and my pal have had to come into the simply awesome class of GT12 with a blank canvas which is all the point I was making, and how easy and maluable it has been or not been. I love this class, as everyone can see from my enthusiasm, present in every step of this thread.

Your help Slowone has been valuable, and without doubt had a massive hand I my enjoyment which I am hugely hugely grateful for. I am by the nature of my job, like researching getting better being competitive etc... The SSGT requires all of that, I simply posed the question the SSGT and SS need more of this time and research to deliver a performance, which people these may not all have.

Zen clearly delivers this less time heavy investment and gives a more rounded and completed car straight out the box. If I am not able to say which car I prefer and what my experiences are and accused of "dissing" a product then this will be sadly my last posting because you have set unrealistic limits on my postings. I sincerely hope your drive about capping views on my Zen and SSGT experience does not come from being a sponsored driver.

GT12 is a class as I understand it and not a manufacturer of a car, there are four cars to choose from, maybe five, giving a newbie experience in "which car is better" is valuable. That is what this thread is all about, and hope WE have given that to folk out there. Setups of the SSGT, driving, club nights etc...

I am all about promoting GT12 not dissing it!!!

Roll on Thursday, oh it is, racing at Maritime, BRING IT ON!

Over and out...

mark christopher

30-07-2015, 03:11 PM

The word I chose in in the Oxford dictionary
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/bollocks
And you will hear far worse in a class room.

To slate any car is in my books not on, you have probably just offended many racers with a Schumacher gt and in fact since my last post I have had one racer contact me. That is a positive as they have had a reply from me and responce as promised from a top team driver .

I'd put it to you that
1/ your car was poorley built
2/ you jumped in and bought every option before you learnt the car in its basic form, which still would have worked and been competitive. I know as I built two cars one kit, one with options, and like slow reviewed them for a magazine.

I am a sponsored Schumacher driver, but you will not see me dissing other makes, Pete is a feelancer and has both a Schumacher and Zen, he will express his findings of them both, but will in no way diss any of them. As he like me knows a fast driver will beat him with any car.

claymoreman

30-07-2015, 05:12 PM

not a gt12 racer as of yet looking to get one at a later date but having read the last few posts heres something to also factor that no one and I repeat no one takes into account and never once seen anyone add this to there posts. I race OR at the moment raced off road 20+ years ago drove many dif cars buying a kit that can run str8 out of the box does no favours to anyone as when something goes wrong what do you do as you have no idea where to start. getting a basic setup with a kit would to me benefit the newbie to learn the car and how changing something affects it for the better or worse. now here is the point I would like to add everyone has a different driving style they need to find it and set a car up to that others knowledge can help explaining how doing something to the car works but buying a ssgt a zen or a mardave will all depend on what the person wants from the car and does the car suit there driving style

joker

30-07-2015, 07:18 PM

I couldn't agree more with that, my mate had an ssgt he he didn't like it sold it to me and got the mardave and love it I'm running the ssgt and I love that. I think the ssgt is the best car out there. Different cars will suit different drivers the no bad cars in gt12 there all good some tracks will suit different cars and some cars will suit different drivers

SlowOne

30-07-2015, 07:39 PM

Stu, you can say what you like on here, and so can Mark and I. I am someone who likes what you do and reads what you say. If you cannot accept that my interpretation of what you wrote is valid, then that's a shame.

Whatever one writes in a public forum is noticed. Too many people who know little and care less give opinions and answers that are, frankly, bollocks. People read it and think it comes from someone who knows, copy it, get nowhere and give up. That is not you, but please re-read your post from Mark and my perspective and try to see our point.

This is not a biggie amongst us, I do hope you will carry on as before. You are entitled to whatever opinion you have - I gave another point of view of your post and another opinion. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that every comment is criticism, that way lies madness!

It's Thursday - I hope you having a blast at Maritime! ;)

reg

30-07-2015, 07:43 PM

I had the first SS,
I built it with the diff,springs to the outside,forget what the go to springs were,go to tire compound,
Raced at my local club and had a ball,thought we would do some meetings,soon realised that the cars were far from competitive,spoke to a Schumacher driver and did all the tricks and tips that they were putting on the car and it was night and day the difference,to say he built it bad or wrong is unfair,just maybe behind on the tips that improve the cars handling,all the little things really do add up to a much better car,that's the same with any class or car,and all part of the fun I think 👍🏼

northernerbill

31-07-2015, 07:42 AM

Text always reads cold.......that's a problem as you can't see the persons expression or lilt in their voice.

One point I'll refer back to is coming from 1/8 buggies and touring cars on Tarmac I couldn't believe how well my GT12 ran first time out, almost fast enough, went round corners on rails, predictable, leaving me wondering what else could I possibly do to this thing as it was so good.

Luckily you guys chipped in, so Stu keep this thread alive with your travels, and Mark, Slowone, Xracer keep the advice a coming.

There will be "X" times as many people reading this and getting hints, tips and ideas but who never post on the forum.

Xracer

31-07-2015, 12:42 PM

Firstly it is great to see such passion from you guys for what has become a very successful conversion from what was effectively a humble (and I do say that very cautiously) low cost stock car design into a full blooded and refined 1/12 racing car.

We have to congratulate Mardave for sticking with this simple low cost philosophy for what is generations now and for them to now see it blossom into what it has become and created this very competitive passion.

We now see a number of manufacturers committing to the formula with a range of interpretations of that original design, each with its own idiosyncratic ideas to create something different to their competition.

How healthy is that, we have choice, we have preferences, each has to decide which camp to pitch into, we see our national championship contenders driving each of their chosen or sponsored designs, all with degrees of success and we all would love to be able to emulate their success, some of us are capable and some are not!

What I don't see though is people 'dissing' the efforts of their creators!

What I do see is the honest feedback of individual experience of whatever design they have spent their hard earned cash on and tried, yes some of those experiences may have lacked the knowledge to convert it into a fully satisfactory and rewarding experience, we have had fun doing it obviously, because we are still here championing the formula!

My own model car experiences are very varied, I am an aging middle order driver, I have been racing all forms of model cars since I bought my first, it was a Heathkit Spectre 1/8th I/C with a K&B Veco 19 way back in 1970 and 1/8th I/C was my original passion!!!

I for one will be returning to the carpet in September, I have a Schumacher and a Zen, neither in my eyes are perfect designs, I will race both and see which delivers the maximum satisfaction for me, if my final judgement is regarded as 'dissing' any design then I am sorry if it is seen that way but it will be my judgement based on my ability to build, tune and race, no one else's!

Of course I may even decide to race my CRC GT10 instead, now that is another story, as I hope to see a resurgence in that formula with at least a full heat at my local clubs, bring it on!

Just one pet hate I have and wish to share, that is foam tyres, always have and always will, I would love to see the advent of proper rubber tyres for these formula but I don't suppose I ever will!

stucartwright

31-07-2015, 01:16 PM

XRacer, it's lovely to see what could be construed as an inbiased view on what has been written, and I certainly appreciate your appraisal of no sign to be dissing creators, but honest feedback of individual experience,which is all I referenced.

Forums seem to bring on a confrontational stance in people, but I never once wished to offend or discredit any manufacturer with any design because as you so writely say, in the right hands any car will metaphorically sing.

Anyway, last evening saw my first outing with the Zen, after changing the ride height due to the new guess the kit came with, applying the shins and the rear spacers, car was set and off I went. My fastest laptime to my average dropped below a second which is better than my previous by some 3/4 of a second on the same track I've been driving on for five weeks. I qualified on pole for the B final, narrowly missing it on my very first official A final at maritime which is by far as competitive as any venue in the south.

My pal, with his Zen, had the most laps ever, lowest lap time ever and all we did was plug in a drive. We both left with the biggest smile ever and can't wait to get back to the track.

For a first time out, with a car never run before I think my point has been proved the Zen FOR ME is far better than the SSGT and delivers an out the box experience like no other. I could have turned up with one rench, some batteries, charger and tyre additive and that would have been enough. If a newbie knew this, I think the choice of first car would be simple. I didn't pick up the manual for the car once, mainly because there is nothing of it, because it is already race tuned and FOR ME performed like a dream.

Jeez what a night... Loved it.

jimjav

31-07-2015, 03:06 PM

After being in the Uk 7 months and being racing TC in both carpet and outdoors I have take the decision of buying (and bought) a GT12, was doubting between a proper 12th lmp or a GT12, in my club are always people running GT12, so the decision was easy.
I am in the process of buying all the stuff, at the moment I have the chassis, speedo and maybe I can use one of my TC motors.
has anyone used Much more motors on gt12 with 1s? I have a 13.5T and I do not know if It will be enough.
What servo is people using? i was thinking on a savox 1257mg, is it good enough?
Bodies, which one is neutral? ferrari one? ascari? mclaren?
has anyone tried the hobbyking 6400mAh?

Thanks!!!

stucartwright

31-07-2015, 04:02 PM

Firstly, a huge welcome to GT12. Awesome class from start to finish Jimjav.

I have no experience with the Much More motors, but the turnigy 6400 1s Lipo's are the best money can buy at that cost, the more expensive Lipo's I have not tried, but for me, I can't believe the extra 30/40/50 pounds a Lipo's won't be seen by me at this stage...

The Core RC servo is the best it seems with most using, it's the designed specifically for the GT12 class. You will see it in the advert on all model shops in the description. Most are on the Mclaren body with Ascari in a very close second place.

Hope that helps, welcome to the thread BTW!!

Best Wishes
Stu

Xracer

31-07-2015, 06:10 PM

Hi jimjav as Stu says welcome to your new racing adventure.

The GT12 class is for 13.5T motors so your motor is correct in that respect, as for its performance I have no doubt it will be OK when geared correctly, this can be very much track dependent, tight and twisty or open and fast, the other guys at your club should offer good advice hopefully but a range 65-72 mm/rev respectively is not a bad starting point usually, your motor will soon tell you if you have over geared.

Servos are a personal choice usually but GT12's ideally favour one sized for 1/12th use and this gives a nice tight tidy layout for the rest of your gear, I personally use the KO RSx12.

Most LiPo's are generally OK if in good nick, if buying new then again which is best is another personal choice usually, I have seen recommendations on here for just about every major supplier, here my choice is Intellect.

If you trail back through this thread you will see all sorts of discussion or even the Facebook GT12 pages for even more, so happy hunting and happy racing.

SlowOne

31-07-2015, 08:29 PM

Just one pet hate I have and wish to share, that is foam tyres, always have and always will, I would love to see the advent of proper rubber tyres for these formula but I don't suppose I ever will!You won't! Rubber tyres have a continuous contact patch and once they lose grip the car is gone. Foam tyres have, effectively, a discontinuous contact patch. Whilst one part may lose grip, another part still has it. The transition from grip to no grip is thus very progressive and makes driving those tyres easier and the car faster.

As you might imagine, rubber tyres have been tried many times in the past. From custom ones for 12th through adaptions of TC tyres to caps - and none of them gets anywhere near a foam tyre.

It's the Laws of Physics, and those you cannot bend or misinterpret!

For a first time out, with a car never run before I think my point has been proved the Zen FOR ME is far better than the SSGT and delivers an out the box experience like no other. I could have turned up with one rench, some batteries, charger and tyre additive and that would have been enough. If a newbie knew this, I think the choice of first car would be simple. I didn't pick up the manual for the car once, mainly because there is nothing of it, because it is already race tuned and FOR ME performed like a dream.

Jeez what a night... Loved it.That's the point and that's how it should be made. For someone else another car might be perfect. That so many people are finding one car suits them better than the other is just fine, but that doesn't mean there is something wrong with one car.

The Core RC servo is the best it seems with most using, it's the designed specifically for the GT12 class. You will see it in the advert on all model shops in the description. Most are on the Mclaren body with Ascari in a very close second place. Be aware that Core servo - a good one - does not fit a Zen without modification to the servo mounting points and the Futaba 9650 - the de-facto standard for the best servo - does not fit an SSGT without redrilling the servo mounting points.

Redrilling those points is allowed in the rules. HTH :)

Stu, so glad you have found a car you like and that your results are showing that benefit. The class is awesome and it's great to know others are joining in and having fun. Keep up the good work! :thumbsup:

Jez

31-07-2015, 08:55 PM

ater reading through this post as i am considering trying gt12 out over the next few months to sharpen up my driving skills i am confused as to which chassis to get?based in west yorkshire i will probably go to sherburn and theres a track at sheffield i believe?does the £100 limit apply here?and as to what extent?i have no idea on rules at club level,so i dont want to turn up with lets say a zen at approx £160 to be told i can't run it yet it appears you can get the schumacher car at under £100 and throw a wedge of money at it but still be allowed.ideally i want one car that can be used at several clubs.i have no idea on how to set a car up or what does what.also i see certain shells being mentioned as the best to use-does this mean that other shells make a car handle badly?i get some enjoyment out of my cars looking good and like something i may have had.im no pro just your average club racer that wants to come off the rostrum with a smile on my face.many thanks,jez.

stucartwright

31-07-2015, 09:51 PM

Hi Slowone
The core RC servo fitted straight in to my Zen no modification needed :-)

Thanks for the kind words, always my intention to make it my point of view, I believe I made this clear in my original post...

Have a great weekend chaps.

Stu

shinytopman

31-07-2015, 10:58 PM

Jez you can buy a Zen for £99 its a base kit the same idea as the SSGT.

(correct me if im wrong here someone) The rule says the car has to be under £100 so all the manufacturer make a kit at that price.

Schumacher do there's by selling the kit at £99 then you can buy the upgrades to make it to the standard you want.

Zen and Mardave on the other hand sell a £99 base kit and you can buy the upgrades or they will sell you a kit for £180 with all the upgrades already in the box to save you buying them individually ie Race kits.

So whatever you deside to buy be it the humble SSGT or a Zen or Mardave race kit will be ok, and BTW there is a new player on the block the ORE but don't know much about that as its new to the blocks

As for the smile on your face i'm sure will be as broad as any as the racing is fast and close.

HTH's

Shiny.

SlowOne

01-08-2015, 10:14 AM

Yup, STM has it - Schumacher sell the base car and separate hop-ups and Zen/Mardave sell the base car with the alternative of a 'race' kit that has all the hop-ups in.

Any kit you find on the Schumacher/Zen/Mardave/Ore websites advertised as for GT12 will be within the BRCA rules and so all clubs accept them for racing.

Schumacher, Ore and Mardave sell kits in pieces that you build, the Zen comes built. Take your pick. If you are not sure how to build and set up these cars, especially a differential, the Zen has a lot of appeal. If you like tinkering and sorting a car and have some experience or a club full of helpers, then the others might appeal more.

You'll need a 1S-compatible speedo, a 13.5T BL motor and a servo to fit your car - see notes above from a lot of people on that! Pick a reasonable 1S pack, a lightweight body shell (Kamtec and Protoform ones come with a very good, free sticker sheet - others don't! ;) ) and some tyres and off you go!

If you're stuck for choices or recommendations, come back here and we'll help. :)

Jez

01-08-2015, 12:01 PM

thanks for the help/advice.do you have to have the ascari type shell?or would i have a dissadvantage running a hatchback style shell?

Xracer

01-08-2015, 01:28 PM

Hi Jez, any of the BRCA legal shells which most of what you can buy are!

The Ascari is very popular for the Schumacher and handles very well and has very short front and rear overhang but some do race the other options too, the Zen is really aimed at the McLaren which fits it well!

mark christopher

01-08-2015, 08:46 PM

Jez join the gt2 circuit uk page, all the committee members and top racers hang out in there.

Jez

01-08-2015, 11:07 PM

thats fine mark but i presume thats facebook?

stucartwright

02-08-2015, 07:03 AM

Yes it is Jez

Martin.s

02-08-2015, 10:41 AM

stucartwright

02-08-2015, 10:58 AM

Hi Martin
35 rears with the yellow springs is a good combo I found on high grip tracks. The amount of droop is also important relative to how smooth the surface is too.

If it's a high grip track I would suggest sticking with the 50/60 splits, and maybe only change one thing at a time. The LCP is the single most influential hop up you can get (I my opinion) and that spine will give you a totally different feeling car. Why the SSGT foes not come with this is beyond me. Anyway, get off your soap box stuart!

Ed springs on front
Yellow on back
35 rear
50/60 fronts
LCP

Jobs a goooden!!

Enjoy.

mark christopher

02-08-2015, 09:27 PM

mark christopher

02-08-2015, 09:35 PM

Just fitted the LRC to my SSGT and was wondering what set up changes might be needed? I was running 37 rears with blue springs in the outer holes and 50/60 fronts with green springs. Ride height is around 4mm front and rear. The club I race at has high grip. Yet to run the car with the lrc yet. Any suggestions to any changes needed would be appreciated. I know a lot of set up is personal preference but thought it's always best to get a starting point from other people. I have heard of people running softer rear tyres for more over all grip levels...but I think maybe 35s would be too soft? Can I go to softer fronts instead?

Thanks
Martin

the top team drivers are running 40 front and 35 rear, track dependent with green front and yellow outer rear springs.
I tried it and it was way to direct for me, I found 45 or 47 Max on the front and 35 or 37 rear. My preference was blue rear green front.

Throw the 50/60 away as grip comes up you want a softer tyre, just supeglue the side wall outer rto stop grip roll, hardly anyone run those tyres and with the LRC kit you loose front steering hence a softer tyre.

More than anything try variations, and lean the car, once you understand it, its brilliant

The top drivers set ups are on the Facebook pages gt12 circuit UK and Schumacher supastox GT.

Martin.s

04-08-2015, 05:31 AM

Thanks for the tips guys. Looking forward to Friday when I can give the car a run out.

M

stucartwright

04-08-2015, 05:50 AM

Make sure you let us know how it goes Martin!! Wishing you lots of luck!

Stu

Martin.s

05-08-2015, 05:47 AM

Will report in over the weekend!

shinytopman

05-08-2015, 09:27 PM

aittam

06-08-2015, 07:53 AM

Hi all,

does the low pivot conversion (U4716) require the roll damper conversion (U4647)? Would it be possibile to use it alone? Is it made of carbon or s1?

I would like to try it, because i've read a lot of good comments about it, but i do not want the extra hassle of the roll damper conversion. :blush::blush::blush:

Regards.

jimjav

06-08-2015, 08:56 AM

mark christopher

06-08-2015, 11:02 AM

shinytopman

06-08-2015, 10:29 PM

Morning,

Yesterday I was preparing the body for my zen and when I was fitting the body post discover that for the rear I have 3 different options. I went for the rear one. but what are the difference between rear and mid position.

best regards
Javier

If you look in the manual it tells you, but basically the rear mounts give more rear end grip, center ones are more balanced if i remember correctly

HTH's

Shiny

Martin.s

07-08-2015, 05:37 AM

You do not need the damper tubes, can still use o rings

Has anyone ever ran the car with both the o rings and side dampers? Just wondering what effects the stiffer rear end would have on handling?

mark christopher

07-08-2015, 07:34 AM

Has anyone ever ran the car with both the o rings and side dampers? Just wondering what effects the stiffer rear end would have on handling?

Pointless, use one or other, if you want stiffer damping use stiffer oil.

Martin.s

07-08-2015, 01:31 PM

SlowOne

07-08-2015, 08:38 PM

Question for Slowone......

Any advice as to the timing sweet spot on the Hirosaka 13.5t?

Have just bought one and wanted a rough starting point

currently running 66t spur, 31 pinion, and new JFT in a zen sorry dont know the Diam. approx 48mm i think.

Thanks in advance.

Shiny.Shiney, try 38 degrees. I have run to 40 degrees, but prefer that smidge less. Rollout is 66 to 68 mmpr depending on track shape. Tighter track, lower number. If your tyres are 48mm dia then 68 is a 30T pinion and 66 is a 29 - roughly! Mine are 45 so its 31 for the lower number and 32 for the higher one.

Ratio depends mostly in how much speed you carry in the corners and your driving style. If you rarely let fully off the throttle and can carry a lot of speed, the higher numbers will work. If the track is tight, or you are an off/on to roll the turn/full on the way out sort of driver, the the lower ratio will help.

Car should be flat about half way down the straight depending on the exit speed from the last corner. I like the motor a lot as it doesn't fade much and has strong torque even at that level of timing. HTH :)

Morning,

Yesterday I was preparing the body for my zen and when I was fitting the body post discover that for the rear I have 3 different options. I went for the rear one. but what are the difference between rear and mid position.

best regards
JavierI know what is said, but haven't yet found anyone who has tried both to give me a proper assessment.

On 12th cars we run off the mid position because the downforce them goes through the centre pivot and it wouldn't work as well as a mount from the pod. On a GT12 the chassis is solid between the alternative mounts so the rear one gives more leverage to centre pivot so more force into that part of the car. However, there is also a lever from the wing to the more forward mounts so in theory the effect should be the same.

The reality is that the wing mostly provides drag behind the centre of pressure so stabilising the car aerodynamically, and the open nature of the chassis with all that air trapped under the rear of the body provides lift. I have never been convinced that a wing provides downforce, but without that drag behind the CoP the car is less stable. Do we confuse one with the other?

[QUOTE=mark christopher;921421]Pointless, use one or other, if you want stiffer damping use stiffer oil.[/Q

Ummm....and if you don't have stiffer oil available? Really just wondering why people don't try things that are a little more out of the box....if no one has EVER tried how does anyone know what effects it could have either positive or negative....O rings plus dampers equal so much damping the car hardly has enough force to overcome it and roll at all, thus reducing grip and making the rear tramp in the turns.

Not every possibility needs testing when experience and the application of simple theories can indicate what will work and what won't. It didn't need any testing to know that running friction bearings in the front axle of a GT12 (as they are run in Stock Cars) would not be as fast as running rolling element (ball) bearings as we do in GT12.

So it is that we know the combination of O rings and dampers all make the car too stiff and a stiff car will be liable to tramp in corners as it has no compliance to the effects of roll and tyre slip.

Keep up the good work one and all - GT12 is still the fun class!! ;)

stucartwright

08-08-2015, 11:30 AM

Quick update from me...
New tranny turned up, Futaba T3GRS, setting it up this arvo in prep for racing at Newbury tomorrow. Excited to see the venue, looks mint online.
Have got myself some jewelry scale to balance up the new Zen...

Thanks has to go out to Mike Manning, he supplied the new Futaba for me and some body posts I snapped and the service was fabulous.

Anyhow, after ten days away on business, buzzing to get back to racing tomorrow!! Will keep you updated of tomorrow's run. Also, may post a few pics of the jewelry scales and the new tranny later.

Happy Saturday all.
Stu

stucartwright

08-08-2015, 11:32 AM

RC Car Handling Link

Have found this link really informative, am sure not all of the info is spot on and maybe not bespoke to GT12 but it has some application no doubt for newbies like me.

For all those interested, here you;

http://users.telenet.be/elvo/

Best Wishes
Stu

stucartwright

08-08-2015, 01:33 PM

My weight system without car

stucartwright

08-08-2015, 04:38 PM

Forgot the picture!!

stucartwright

08-08-2015, 04:40 PM

My Zen after being balanced on a balanced surface before anyone ask 😎

mark christopher

08-08-2015, 08:04 PM

[QUOTE=mark christopher;921421]Pointless, use one or other, if you want stiffer damping use stiffer oil.[/Q

Ummm....and if you don't have stiffer oil available? Really just wondering why people don't try things that are a little more out of the box....if no one has EVER tried how does anyone know what effects it could have either positive or negative....

Put simply I posted that answer as it has been tried and tested, that was the results. I would not recommend the side dampers if your not going to buy any different oils.
Feel free to try it your self.

shinytopman

08-08-2015, 08:44 PM

Slowone many thanks for that. Very usefull , might well be getting the iron out if i get time.
Many thanms.

stucartwright

08-08-2015, 09:00 PM

Reading various FB pages, it appears Schumacher have to step up to the plate, momentum is gaining for the likes of Zen, Ore and Mardave...

Very interesting to read the views across all the spectrum of drivers.

Fascinating to see what Schumacher come up with, do they go more simplistic out the box experience, or keep complexity. I am definitely not a leading light in all GT12 but I have had very recent experience of being a newbie....

It can only be a wonderful thing for GT12. Newbury car club tomorrow for me, can't wait.

Over and out.
Stu

draperst

08-08-2015, 09:53 PM

both my cars
https://scontent-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/t31.0-8/11041023_10152841890571156_4390985067518326989_o.j pg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtf1/t31.0-8/11128451_10152841890521156_1717726070801236242_o.j pg

Hi Mark, how did you get your esc so close to your servo? I tried it but the wires run out of the left hand side, would appreciate your insight. Also what lipo connectors are they? Thanks! Stuart

mark christopher

08-08-2015, 10:02 PM

I open the servo, re-solder the wires and route then through the bottom of the case and plug the side hole.

the top pic has mbmodels balls out connectors and the bottom sore/schumacher

draperst

08-08-2015, 10:30 PM

Thanks Mark

draperst

08-08-2015, 10:39 PM

final question for this evening (I promise) I bought a cheap radio set for my sons car and now my car. More trackstar stuff... on trying out both cars this evening, the steering gets "stuck" on both and its quite unresponsive, I think this is a case of buy cheap, buy twice as I assume the cause of the servo delay is the radio gear as it affects both cars running a core 5008 servo. If you think this might be the case I will send them both back, and may be you could recommend an alternative (Wheel type), that will not break the bank?

Thanks all

Best
Stuart

mark christopher

09-08-2015, 04:31 PM

Have you tried a power cap in the received, Google spectrum power cap to were what I mean

SlowOne

09-08-2015, 05:00 PM

STM - Get the iron out...? You wear clean, pressed shirts to an RC club? Now that's impressive! :D :D

SlowOne

09-08-2015, 05:05 PM

Hi Mark, how did you get your esc so close to your servo? I tried it but the wires run out of the left hand side, would appreciate your insight. Also what lipo connectors are they? Thanks! StuartI did the same without taking a solder to the servo.

Take the baseplate off, slide the rubber grommet along the servo wire and then carefully remove a small amount of plastic from the baseplate so the wire can exit straight back from the servo. Screw the baseplate back on and then fold the wire along the bottom of the baseplate, holding it in place with some Shoe-Goo.

If you ever want to sell the servo, the grommet will go back and the wire can be restored to the original position.

Note that when you do this you will break the paper seal on the servo and your warranty will be void. HTH :)

stucartwright

09-08-2015, 07:32 PM

Today was an amazing day.. My newbie pal, Geraint, and I headed to Newbury for a charity day at Newbury RCCC, supporting local charities and a Classic Car Show. Loads and loads of spectators, kids specific race where they could turn up and drive TC's, GT12's and even a GT10!

The galleries as you will see from my picture were three and five deep at times, nothing short of a flying success, for RC and GT12 alike. Huge congrats has to go to Kevin and his team at Newbury RCCC for putting on this day, never been to Newbury RCCC before, can definitely say we'll be going back and they certainly welcome two newbies with open arms!

The Zen was a huge success for me personally, with almost twenty drivers, A,B and C finals, I manage to scrape into the A final for the first time with this amount of drivers. A GT12 team driver was there and I manage to get within half a second of his best time which I am extremely proud of after only four months of driving.

My new transmitter, Futaba T4GRS supplied by Mike Manning at YMCRacing who incidentally gave me great service, cheaper than mainstream sites and service to match! I digress, back to it, the controller from my Core was so sharp, responsive and made the Zen sing even further with the various settings it has to offer. If you are looking for a stick upgrade from a Core I would very much recommend the Futaba T4GRS.

I'll definitely be investing in a motor fan, the D4 dan a little hot and I hear the motor fans can reduce 20-30 degrees in temp which would be useful, anyone use one of these, would be grateful of any feedback or advice!

It has never been more present the future for me is on driver improvements. With hand on heart I have a car that allows me to concentrate on this huge area, and this area only, for now 😉. Definitely feel content with all my equipment, thanks to the Zen. Of course, for me.

A couple of photos to follow...

Have a good evening all.

Best Wishes
Stu

stucartwright

09-08-2015, 07:34 PM

Great atmosphere...

stucartwright

09-08-2015, 07:38 PM

Boom...

stucartwright

09-08-2015, 07:40 PM

Yes I know my average was poor....!!! 😁

mark christopher

09-08-2015, 07:50 PM

I did the same without taking a solder to the servo.

Take the baseplate off, slide the rubber grommet along the servo wire and then carefully remove a small amount of plastic from the baseplate so the wire can exit straight back from the servo. Screw the baseplate back on and then fold the wire along the bottom of the baseplate, holding it in place with some Shoe-Goo.

If you ever want to sell the servo, the grommet will go back and the wire can be restored to the original position.

Note that when you do this you will break the paper seal on the servo and your warranty will be void. HTH :)

I also shortened my wire at the same time, and my sticker remained intact lol

draperst

09-08-2015, 08:47 PM

Have you tried a power cap in the received, Google spectrum power cap to were what I mean

Thank you Mark, that's worth a try. Cheers

draperst

09-08-2015, 08:49 PM

shinytopman

09-08-2015, 10:10 PM

STM - Get the iron out...? You wear clean, pressed shirts to an RC club? Now that's impressive! :D :D

LoL.........:thumbsup:

stucartwright

10-08-2015, 11:12 AM

Hey Chaps
How much temperature does a motor fan strip off the heat of a motor? I am running slightly (note; sarcasm) too hot (90°) with my D4. I have the timing on 50 and a 70T 35pinion with 46mm tyres, giving a run out of 72.26... Everyone says a run out with a D4 should be around 80, do you think I'm running hot because the motor is over revving?

Thanks in advance.

Stu

mark christopher

10-08-2015, 12:00 PM

80 seems way too big, on a large national track the highest I can find for a d4 is 71, and never seen any other much above that.

Driving style and throttle application is a big factor to motor heat.

shinytopman

10-08-2015, 12:18 PM

Hi Stu...... Did you change your spur gear?

As im sure the standard spur on a zen is 66, which would give you a rollout of 76.64

stucartwright

10-08-2015, 01:12 PM

Thanks Sam, good point, it is 66T, forgetting myself!
I have ordered up the fan for cooling, most have suggested at Mairitime Sam 80/81 is a good rollout. will keep to that and see how the fan goes on reducing the heat...

You'll be missed Thursday! Thanks so much for all your help yesterday, it was great fun as ever!

G has your pinion!!! Don't forget...

stucartwright

10-08-2015, 07:25 PM

Any constructive criticism on my driving would be gratefully received. I am the last car on the grid, white car!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=341V5A4Odv8

Its was an immense day, so much fun!!

Thanks Newbury RCCC

Best Wishes
Stu

SlowOne

10-08-2015, 08:48 PM

Stu, I would gear it down or knock some timing off. A fan stuck on the back of the car will upset the handling. I know it is not that heavy, but it will make a difference.

For it to have any effect it has to be close to the motor which means having it on top. Any position more than 5mm away from the can will have minimal effect on temps. I doubt it would reduce temps by more than ten degrees over the run.

If this was such a good idea, everyone would be doing it by now. No one does, so that tells us something, eh?!! ;)

SlowOne

10-08-2015, 09:01 PM

Stu, watching the video your car is definitely over-geared and/or over-timed. Notice how everyone catches you through the sweeper as your car bogs down - that's where the heat gets generated. Out of the corners they have you for breakfast. When the orange and white car crashes and then catches you, your corner speeds are similar but he out-accelerates you from every turn.

As for the driving, you are trying too hard IMHO. You seem to throw the car into a corner, miss the apex and have too much speed so making you exit wide. Watch the front runners and see how much closer they are to the apex and tight on the exit.

Because foam tyres never completely lose grip, it is assumed that cars can always go faster. The tyres are losing grip and that means you can't vary the line effectively. When the front end loses grip, the car will not go where you point it, it will go where it has enough grip to go, and that usually means missing the apex and exiting too wide.

There is a sweet spot for fast cornering on foam tyres and it is rarely flat out. Just below it the car will in effect turn itself. Try backing off earlier and rolling the car through the corner and you'll see how quickly it turns and how easy it is to hold your chosen line. Speed that up until you are back to missing apexes and exiting wide - somewhere in between is that sweet spot.

Just my thoughts, hopefully you will get others. :)

stucartwright

11-08-2015, 12:42 PM

Hi SlowOne
Really great stuff... After watching the other drivers a few times, I had seen their ability to feed the throttle which I certainly don't feel I do.
The cars look of not having grip is me trying to not make my turns long a smooth, but I can obviously only do this if the car is better balanced, as I feel if I turn sharper hitting the apex I will cause too much drag on the carpet if you know what I mean....
I will taper my speeds into the bends more, I feel and see that, and as Mark said, throttle control is a big contributing factor on the motor themperature.
I regret purchasing the motor fan now but i am sure i can move it on....
Thanks in advance, will report back after Thursday.. Because Thursday is, yep you guessed it, Maritime!

SlowOne

11-08-2015, 07:24 PM

I regret purchasing the motor fan now but i am sure i can move it on....There is a saying - measure twice and cut once! When problem's arise, think them through carefully before you jump - eggs... sucking... teach you... etc. :D

Problems have to be solved at root cause, not at symptom level. One thing that will serve anyone well in racing is to know how to analyse what the car is doing, and then think through why that is happening. That's when asking others helps so much - they might not be right but they will give you nuggets of information.

Just to rub salt into the wounds and patronise you further (!!) there were posts on here saying people were running the D4 at 80mm/rev, higher than you, but they didn't complain of overheating. There's a clue that says you are generating too much heat in the motor.

The question that was crying out to be asked was "what makes a motor overheat?" Armed with those answers I am certain you could have worked out what I said above.

I've re-read this a couple of times and it still sounds crap, so apologies for that. I mean nothing by it, just trying to give you other tips on race cars and getting the best from them with the help of your racing buddies. And that sounds even worse so now I am in this hole I am going to stop digging!! Best of luck on Thursday. :)

stucartwright

12-08-2015, 06:23 AM

Morning SlowOne
Firstly, the messages you post always come across with the right tone and above all else a very caring manner.. Please don't apologies, really appreciate yours and anyone who chips in with any help.

I think the problem to date has been my car, the Schumacher, for me that is, didn't deliver this simplistic build and run which meant my car was not truly set right like others who have far more experience. Having run the Zen only twice, turned up to a meeting in Newbury and then suddenly finding myself in an A final was a big shock to be honest.

The video provides me with a birds eye view of my lack of driving skills in the better classes. As a newbie I think was throw as much speed at the track in the hope to get round without hittin anything and "that will do" but of course watching the rac, the guy who won all three of the a finals they ran has clearly no more speed than me down the straight but left me standing as you right diagnosed and for all to see.

My concept/was that if I carry enough speed to the corner hit a reasonable apex it will be good enough, how stupid to think! Haha. From your comments and watching back, the forces and energy to stop/go/change direction of these little cars is high, proportionatly and as you so rightly suggest, simply trying too hard, carrying too much speed giving the throttle too much to do and causing overheating. I totally understand this. Throwing money at the problem in this case definitely served me no favour, silly boy!!

The eagerness when you have cars/drivers perceived better than ones self it's so hard to not get sucked into racing them and not the track which creates the over zealous speed which if was applied correctly would sort the problem. Cat in the headlights syndrome! I play a sport at elite level and recognize all these emotional conflicts that competition provides which is one of the big reasons I love this hobby, and why I have to get better!! (For all those sports psychs out there, "would like to" get better)

I am certainly going to pay far more attention to the top drivers now I feel I have the car to compete with them and will be watching their every move!!

Apologies, I have not re-read this message before posting, doing it on the fly but wanted to reply.

As ever folks, many thanks and apologies if I rambled on!!
Over and out.
Stu

racingben

12-08-2015, 08:26 AM

Stu I watched a couple of minutes on it and yes your car gearing may be a bit high.

Also you appear in the first couple of minutes to be correcting the car on the straight to get a better line for the end turn. I'd suggest working on improving the consistency of your exit on the previous turn so you don't have to slow the car down on the straight by steering - slows it down a lot.

On the technical section in the middle of the track you're leaving a bit too much room for error so your lap distance is longer.

Your entry to the left hairpin appears to be 'let go of throttle then turn'. The car has a bit of a delay actually doing what you ask as the tyre takes a moment to grip and change direction.

The front running cars are turning in on full power and then easing off to bring the front in to the apex. There's an instant response because the tyre is already changing direction - you're just adding weight to it to ask it to turn more. They're adding more and more steering as the car slows as well - shortening the length of the turn entry (and therefore lap length) without compromising the corner exit.

stucartwright

12-08-2015, 02:31 PM

Duly noted racingben

Here is a question, and I know everyone and car is different, but what do you guys run as your expo settings for your steering?

stucartwright

12-08-2015, 03:10 PM

Interestingly, neither of you have asked whether I am running short or long rear pod? What do you guys run?

racingben

12-08-2015, 05:01 PM

My expo is about 25%

I have a supastox.

No comment on setup really as the car seems to be pretty consistent in the video so I'd say you have more time to come from you than the car at this point.

I love the simplicity of the zen and will consider getting one. Having said that I also like tinkering with the supastox to constantly get more out of it. My car is rarely the same from one run to the other. Sometimes it gets better, occasionally I go totally wrong and it's shocking.

One challenge has been to go from a hall with a billiard table smooth sports hall floor to another hall with a very uneven wooden floor. I went from a car that was stiff as a board (black front springs and red rear) to a soft squishy car (blue front white rear) to try and ride the bumps.

The real challenge has been to make the SSGT as efficient over bumps as the zen / mardave. I'm pretty much there now but initially the way the car scrubbed speed on a bumpy corner was like I had the brakes on compared to the other cars

stucartwright

12-08-2015, 06:53 PM

Ben
25% more sensitive or less sensitive? Not knowing your tranny, Futaba and Spectrum move in different directions with reference to increased and decreased sensitivity.

SlowOne

12-08-2015, 07:10 PM

Stu, I run -12% on a Futaba - in other words, the expo is set to make it less sensitive as you come off centre. I find this works well for fast sweepers and high-speed infield corners.

I didn't ask about your pod length as this is family forum! :D :D

I run the short configuration which works everywhere and gives more rotation in the corners. HTH :)

stucartwright

12-08-2015, 07:59 PM

interesting to know... I have fiddled with the expo and have gone from -20 to +5 currently. I have looked back over my "down the straight correction"
Unless I am not seeing something, I see very little correction...

I definitely used to make my steering less sensitive but I have gone the other way now, I don't like big stick movements and prefer the sensitivity, would be interesting to know where the likes of Mark Stiles and Co have their expo.

Feeding the throttle a little more into and out of the corners with less big changes of throttle which should really keep the heat down on the motor. Will monitor. The good thing with Maritime, the tack stays the same for six weeks which helps to see improvements...

shinytopman

12-08-2015, 08:38 PM

Maritime Rules..........:thumbsup:

Except for the steps.........:D:D. plays havoc with my knee's

stucartwright

12-08-2015, 08:44 PM

You'll be missed tomorrow!!
Bin the holiday, come racing!

shinytopman

12-08-2015, 09:28 PM

if only

stucartwright

13-08-2015, 06:17 AM

Is the Hobbwing 3.1v still the best out there? Or is there something new coming out before the winter series? I have a Toro 1s, will I notice a difference if I change?

Best Wishes
Stu

Xracer

13-08-2015, 01:25 PM

racingben

13-08-2015, 02:04 PM

interesting to know... I have fiddled with the expo and have gone from -20 to +5 currently. I have looked back over my "down the straight correction"
Unless I am not seeing something, I see very little correction....

Took another look. Noticed it in the first couple of laps but then I think it's the effect of the wide angle lens after that.

mark christopher

13-08-2015, 08:42 PM

From what I have gathered they are all effectively the same, there may be some component differences that deliver a lower/higher cost but it is the software that everyone says is different and yes there are differences in the setup protocols but what they do in terms of performance no one has really nailed any convincing argument either way, well not that I have seen to date.

I have the Hobbywing in my SSGT and RSGT and the Toro in my CRC Gen10X SE, sad thing is I have yet to race the latter two but that all starts in September after my holiday.

So Stu, perhaps save that 'upgrade?' until someone can deliver a convincing demonstration of any differences, from the comments about your driving style though, then there is probably more to be gained there than any ESC change.

They may look similar but they at totally different internally, the software is different but the bueaty of blinky it can only give the same performance, though the programming for punch etc can give different feels.

Skyrc makes the toro and the gforce which re identical. Both from the same factory,
As you point out Stuart can Gian far more by adapting his driving style, rather than changing gear or cars, I'm pretty sure I suggested it at the beginning of the thread....aggressive driving in this class is slow and costly in heat build up and loss of volts.
And yes I speak from experience I used to be aggressive and overdriv, this class taught me not too which improved me in other classes too.

stucartwright

14-08-2015, 06:38 AM

Maritime report...
Another awesome night down at the Dockyard on Chatham.. New track is fantastic, going anti clockwise I thought prove a slightly more difficult skill as I've always seemed to go clockwise, but it was fine.

I got moved up to the intermediate heats and won my first two races!! Wowzer, was dead chuffed, beating some serious regular A Finalists. Wheel failure in the third heat, saw me qualify for my second A Final in week... Heady heights for me, so I was totally thrilled. 9th on the grid out of 10 cars, finishing 6th, not a bad showing.

Now, tyre truing.... I purchased one with my newbie pal, and I have to say it was quite a bit of rushing around at all the bits and bobs for it but there was a definite difference in the cars handling which has to have made a difference. The Zen once again came up trumps, adjusting the ride height on the from of the car in no more than 30 seconds in total and the rear end in no more than a minute. Fantastic I'd say, another point chalked up for the Zen over the SSGT in MY opinion.

Thursday nights have become a day of the week that I look forward to more than any other, long may THAT continue.... (Not bad for a bloke who can't build a car and can't drive....) ;-)

Xracer

14-08-2015, 12:26 PM

Thanks for the insight into the esc's Mark, I've never opened any of mine to look inside and what you say probably explains the cost difference with I suspect the Hobbywing being of better overall quality, I have no complaints I must say.

I did see Stu that you have put your Toro up for sale, no holding you back!!!

Mark, your comments on over aggressive driving also strikes a chord with me, I have yet to calm my style but I am a very old dog now so new tricks do take that bit longer to materialise, if they ever do!

mark christopher

14-08-2015, 10:09 PM

As soon as you tell someone they need to look at their driving, which will also aid car set up, they normally take the huff and spend more money :woot::lol:

stucartwright

15-08-2015, 06:53 AM

Interesting thoughts RacingBen and XRAcer... And I certainly will keep chipping away at the driving of course, and I'm sure us three agree, improving ones driving is a lifetimes works... I am very fortunate to be able to afford keep spending out on new stuff, so why not, I work hard all week for it!

All the gear and no idea I say!! Haha

Have a good weekend chaps.

shinytopman

15-08-2015, 02:33 PM

All the gear and no idea I say!! Haha

That's not you, that's my crown..........:woot:

stucartwright

15-08-2015, 02:53 PM

Nooooo no no no Sam
I can't drive, build cars or drive but have all the gear!!
Definitely my mantel

Xracer

15-08-2015, 03:13 PM

Well chaps if we are fortunate enough to be able to start off by obtaining the 'right' gear and that is always a mute point on it's own, then the results are down to how we setup our chosen beast, again there are often many opinions on that too, then once we've cracked that, it is then solely down to how we manage to control our over zealous eagerness to hopefully out race those that we may never ever be able to match, purely because of natures gift to those few!

Ah such is the life of competitive hobbies, one golden rule I have learnt through my 40 plus years of 'toy' racing cars, recognise your level of ability, always try to improve but most of all, always enjoy what you are fortunate enough to do at whatever level you are at!

A fortune can never buy natural ability, it will allow you to practice and improve and hopefully occasionally win but champions are usually born or are very, very lucky!

Here endeth my sermon :blush:

shinytopman

15-08-2015, 04:31 PM

LOL.....Xracer........I know my level of ability, it normally hovers somewhere about the bottom of the pile.
Owing to the fact i have a short circuit in the connection between the thumbs, brain and eyes.............:woot::wtf::thumbsup:

beale

15-08-2015, 05:53 PM

I put a post here in the on road section a while ago about 'quicker is not always faster' i.e a quicker car will not always provide faster lap. Mark quite correctly said quicker is always faster as in the term. I was relating to newbies myself included jumping into TC with a boosted 13.5t and being beaten regularly by a blinky 17.5t. All the drivers are now faster and run 17.5t, myself included it seems a slower car will teach you to carry corner speed better than driving a fast car slow!!! try it (I still like the gadgets though so all the gear running steadily!!!)

stucartwright

15-08-2015, 08:23 PM

As usual lots of interesting points of view. I don't wholeheartedly subscribe to talent is given at birth, many opinions point towards a 10,000 hour rule (Eeek) some pitch it toward a mindset and some advise practice regimes... Take your pick.

Understand, apply and practice with a dash of determination and see what happens. I don't believe anybody can get to a high level without having a car that gives them a chance to grow as a driver which has been discussed at great length in this forum. If you think about it, the speed of the car is only as valid as how much the car can handle in its setting which is embraced by the drivers skill in getting the car around the track. Its not one ingredient that wins over all, to coin a phrase, it's an "aggregation of marginal gains" (who said that?!) haha...

What I do know from being someone who has researched performance to elite level, most at that level don't know what they do to get the results they achieve, and it's the so called officianardos that proclaim they have all the answers that always seem to harp up to give advice, very interesting....

Anyhow, much debate inspires much thought, with flexibility in our thoughts we are all sure to learn, enjoy and leave with a big fat smile on the journey this great hobby brings.

All the best
Stuart

SlowOne

16-08-2015, 08:08 AM

Talent, yes absolutely. Set-up is a limitation - no, absolutely...

A guy called David Hobbs drove for the BMW team in the US IMSA series. BMW had a regime of inviting a star driver to partner a team driver at each race. In Watkins Glen, Hobbs was partnered with Ronnie Peterson. Hobbs offered Peterson the practice session to sort the car our to his liking (Peterson was a driving God at the time) but Ronnie said that David was the guy running the series and he should set the car up.

By Hobbs own admission, he wanted to impress Peterson, so he worked really hard on the set up and turned a really good practice time. Come qualifying, Hobbs was in the top three and turned the car over to Peterson... who promptly took over 1.5 seconds off Hobbs time in a car he'd never sat in before!

You are either born with it or you're not, and you either know what to do with it or you don't. The 10,000 hour theory has been regularly de-bunked, and it is especially not true where there are limited 'rules' to practice to - like rock and roll, art, racing, etc.

I've had my car in the hands of National Champion Andy Griffiths and he took a second (in 13) off my lap time on his third lap after a small adjustment to the steering throw. You've either got it or you haven't...!! ;)

stucartwright

16-08-2015, 08:18 AM

SlowOne, like your story of the greats working magic with someone else's tools, there will be stories at the other end of the scale too.

The stories that you have exampled are people who have "got there" not a journey of "how" they got there... This is what's up for discussion, not the finished article. Until such time someone takes a hand picked spectrum of total novices and takes them through an identical journey building their driving, nothing can be known for sure. That goes for all sports... It's not been done. All we have is sporting bodies trying to apply the same strategies to juniors etc but each individual still has a "home" coach and advisories that sit outside these bodies which influence, therefore still not delivering the same journey. To me, this voyage of discovery and exploration in learning something new is really fascinating, and the consensus of people saying you have it or you don't just doesn't pan out to be true, not just in this hobby but in any vocation.... "I" have hundreds of stories for every one that suggests you "have it or you don't", theory.

We all have faith and beliefs, That's what makes us all different, those stead fast in "you've got it or you haven't" is a mindset, and we all know the power of mindsets!! ��

Bosscat

16-08-2015, 12:50 PM

Slow One,
You mention the Hirosaka 13.5 in glowing terms I see that this is made by Speed Pasion so the obvious question then is, is it any better than an SP 13.5??

stucartwright

16-08-2015, 01:03 PM

They were selling off the Hirosaka engine cheap on the Zen website... Take that as you want, but I got the Trinity D4 Maxzilla and goes like stink off a shovel!

Xracer

16-08-2015, 01:31 PM

There are many instances in all competitive activities were shear hard work and determination have created winners, the true lasting champions though do not have to work as hard to achieve success.

Ronnie Peterson was a winner as soon as he took to a race track and what a sad loss he was, so early in what would have been a glittering career!
Most of the motor racing greats were too but Nigel Mansell was a talented grafter who demonstrated that shear hard work and determination can succeed once he got himself into a decent car through his hard graft!

Usain Bolt, a truly natural champion no doubt about that one, assuming he is clean of course!!! Mike Gatlin mmm I wonder?
The only trouble with athletic sport champions we never know if they have resorted to 'cheating' sadly and the recent disclosures on the suppressed blood analysis results of recent and past Olympic competitors and champions only stirs this distasteful mire!

Andy Murray a very talented grafter who wins but Novak Djokovic a true natural champion as was Federer, Sampras et al!

When it comes to our hobby though, I have witnessed and raced against many talented drivers some of whom have achieved success but the 'true' lasting champions are limited, Andy Griffiths is certainly one of those of recent years along with David Spashett etc and I apologise for not listing the others of the 'few'!

It is only when you attend a national or international event of any model car category that you witness the great, the good and the rest, true God given talent shines through!

As for me, lower half of the rest, with patches of past moderate lower finals success but that is OK for me and in my senior years, just fun with hopefully some glimpse of success!!!

For you youngsters, go for it, you never know, you may be a budding great but you will soon find out and it won't take 10,000 hours, your first national will give you a clue!

mark christopher

16-08-2015, 03:28 PM

They were selling off the Hirosaka engine cheap on the Zen website... Take that as you want, but I got the Trinity D4 Maxzilla and goes like stink off a shovel!

Slow One,
You mention the Hirosaka 13.5 in glowing terms I see that this is made by Speed Pasion so the obvious question then is, is it any better than an SP 13.5??

well the trinity is manufactured by speed passion too, and they have their new speed passion v4... let you work the numbers out :woot:

Gmez

18-08-2015, 09:48 AM

the top team drivers are running 40 front and 35 rear, track dependent with green front and yellow outer rear springs.
I tried it and it was way to direct for me, I found 45 or 47 Max on the front and 35 or 37 rear. My preference was blue rear green front.

Throw the 50/60 away as grip comes up you want a softer tyre, just supeglue the side wall outer rto stop grip roll, hardly anyone run those tyres and with the LRC kit you loose front steering hence a softer tyre.

Hi Mark why do you say to go softer when the grip comes up? My intuition says more grip on track = harder tyre? What about the amount of additive that you apply to the fronts as the meeting goes on? Do you back it off gradually or keep it constant but tame it with superglue?

Cheers,
James

SlowOne

18-08-2015, 08:19 PM

James, a softer foam tyre is different to a softer rubber tyre.

Usually, rubber tyres have the same sidewall flex irrespective of compound. Generally, whether TC or Off-Road, the insert remains the same even if the rubber changes. On a foam tyre, when you change the compound you change the sidewall flex.

When grip comes up you want the car to be soft enough to roll into the corner. That way, the CofG is lowered as you roll and the car will not try to roll over. A softer foam tyre has a more flexible sidewall so it has the same effect as fitting a softer spring allowing the car to roll more, allowing the CofG to be lower and resisting rollover.

A softer sidewall will also allow the tread to flex more. That allows the tyre to 'squirm' a bit on the track which makes it easier to drive - it is more forgiving between grip and slip. Going to a hard tyre will reverse all of this, making the car more inclined to roll and leaving a fine line between grip and slip that makes the car dart and harder to control.

The foam insert on a rubber tyre controls the flex and the sidewall 'give' so changing the compound and not the insert gives you a direct comparison between grip and tyre grade. More heat and more grip means a harder tyre works, but not when using foam tyres!

Foam tyres will give you grip all the way across the tread and down the sidewall! Superglue on the sidewalls up to the point where it meets the tread means that the car won't grip and try to roll over. I use it all the time and it works fine - the car is predictable and won't surprise you.

Additive would take a novel to explain. Here's the one-minute version...

On low-grip carpets, use SXT or Spider Blue. Always coat the rears full width, and start with half width (on the inside) for the fronts. Up that width if you need more steering.

On high-grip carpets Spider Green will work better. For a large event, start on SXT/Blue and when the car starts to feel a bit edgy, go to Green. Avoid Green on low-grip tracks as it will 'burn off' and leave you with not grip at the end of the race.

Start at 30 minutes soak time on the rears, and 15 minutes on the fronts. As the grip comes up you can back that off to 20 minutes rear and 10 minutes fronts. Dry the tyres off with a towel so that it is standing for one heat before you race. Never go on the track with wet tyres. The car should not slip and slide around at the beginning of a race, more drying time if it does! During the race a car will change its grip slightly as it licks up grip from the track. If it changes a lot then your additive regime is at fault - change the soak time and increase the standing time before you race, and think about changing the additive.

You have to experiment as the application of additive is a key part of the car's grip and handling. Find a regime that suits you and your car. There are no hard and fast rules for finding that last few tenths, so start here and see what works for you.

I am sure others can add to this with their experiences. Those might be different to this but where additive is concerned they are usually valid and worth trying. Note what works on what track with what tyres and you'll get the hang of it soon enough. HTH :)

Gmez

19-08-2015, 06:51 PM

Thanks SlowOne, that's very interesting to know. I've only been racing for just under a year so still lots to learn!

I'm always a little wary now of grip roll, especially after my first regional at Frodsham where the car felt great for the first 2 heats and then wanted to topple over at the same corner for the rest of the day. So by going harder on the tyres I probably made it worse. It was definitely a learning experience in judging how much the grip increases throughout the day of a big meeting. I thought I'd learnt from that for the next one at Crewe and went harder as the day went on to try to pre-empt the increasing grip and the car felt consistent throughout the day but I guess it was just luck!

I know experience will count in judging how much additive to use in combination with superglue but it's difficult to always know that you've put enough on when you've got the increasing track grip to confound things. A few times recently I've used superglue but then found I've had a little too much understeer. We'll just have to see how it goes at Sunday's regional at Morecambe and learn!

Cheers,
James

joker

19-08-2015, 07:43 PM

Can anyone recommend a lipo I could do with a new one and can't decide witch ones best.

Kusal

19-08-2015, 07:53 PM

Hi all,
No tyre additive is allowed at our carpet track. What would be a good starting point for a SSGT for tyres?
Or will this be a lost battle (hope not because I am enjoying the car a lot)?
Thx

Danosborne6661

19-08-2015, 08:23 PM

Kit tyres is a good starting point.

We don't run additive at our club, and kit tyres work perfectly.

mark christopher

19-08-2015, 09:24 PM

Can anyone recommend a lipo I could do with a new one and can't decide witch ones best.

Vapextech

badger5

20-08-2015, 05:37 AM

+1 for Vapextech, had mine for two years and can't tell them apart from my factory spec Balls Out cells, also don't see a difference in internal resistance between the two different cells.

racingben

20-08-2015, 02:20 PM

Blue and yellow car on pole is me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4wrTvbq4As

40 fronts, 32 rears, green front spring, white rear on outer holes (our track is very bumpy) full additive rear and about 60% front.

I need to make a set of 35's up (chunked one and then the replacements came mounted 1 on a rear wheel and one on a front) to try that setup as well.

stucartwright

21-08-2015, 07:01 AM

Hey chaps

Lovely to see so many new people getting involved this thread and asking questions, using the brains that have offered up so much in the way of experience and expertise. Top stuff...

Progress report from me; yep you guessed it... Thursday night means Maritime night. Yet another top night and more learned.

The week before I was lucky enough to marshal right next to the top driver at Maritime who seems to never miss, so whilst this is not liked, I watched his stick action for a couple of laps, (I know I should have been watching the track, but I wasn't, so sea with it hahaha) This driver in question used his brakes on on almost four corners which absolutely shocked me. It wasn't much, after seeing his stick control and the notices what corners these brakes were applied I didn't see the car obviously locking up and wriggling through the corners...

SlowOne, would you say this is recommended? It seems like it goes right against the idea of keeping all the energy in the car and balanced, if you only going to slam on the brakes and unsettle it quite a bit. Then last night, I heard another top 3 driver talking about brakes etc... I didn't try it, although many would as it seems a plague in this RC world, "if the top driver do it, then it should be done" but I thought slightly more laterally... And fed he throttle a little more.

What I means is, instead of shutting the throttle off and coasting into a corner, waiting for the corner to pass and then accelerating out the other side, but having too much speed essentially because the coast would happen too late, I just eased off the throttle, so the speed dropped slightly and then fed the throttle through the corner, the turn in was like night and day!!! Holy moly, it grabbed at quite an alarming rate and hugged the carpet that much better and I in turn carried more speed.

What is really hard is the ability to ease off the throttle slightly earlier than normal but keep the throttle on, than keeping the throttle down for longer and then totally shut it off, hope this is making sense, when there is a car up your bum. What I found, I lost the car behind coming out the bend as my lines were better and exit speed improved, more balanced car, happier driver!!

I can't say I managed to do this with any great consistency but jeepers, I chopped off .8 off my best lap time from the week before and managed to once again qualify for the A final! In the A final, out of qualifying 10th on the grid, I whipped past a few and held off some worthy drivers to finish 5th, on yet another productive night. Awesome!!

West Kent on Sunday for some more action, will keep you informed! Haha thoughts on all this waffle, as usual, gratefully received.

Over and out.
Stu

stucartwright

21-08-2015, 07:06 AM

Hey chaps

Lovely to see so many new people getting involved this thread and asking questions, using the brains that have offered up so much in the way of experience and expertise. Top stuff...

Progress report from me; yep you guessed it... Thursday night means Maritime night. Yet another top night and more learned.

The week before I was lucky enough to marshal right next to the top driver at Maritime who seems to never miss, so whilst this is not liked, I watched his stick action for a couple of laps, (I know I should have been watching the track, but I wasn't, so sea with it hahaha) This driver in question used his brakes on on almost four corners which absolutely shocked me. It wasn't much, after seeing his stick control and the notices what corners these brakes were applied I didn't see the car obviously locking up and wriggling through the corners...

SlowOne, would you say this is recommended? It seems like it goes right against the idea of keeping all the energy in the car and balanced, if you only going to slam on the brakes and unsettle it quite a bit. Then last night, I heard another top 3 driver talking about brakes etc... I didn't try it, although many would as it seems a plague in this RC world, "if the top driver do it, then it should be done" but I thought slightly more laterally... And fed he throttle a little more.

What I means is, instead of shutting the throttle off and coasting into a corner, waiting for the corner to pass and then accelerating out the other side, but having too much speed essentially because the coast would happen too late, I just eased off the throttle, so the speed dropped slightly and then fed the throttle through the corner, the turn in was like night and day!!! Holy moly, it grabbed at quite an alarming rate and hugged the carpet that much better and I in turn carried more speed.

What is really hard is the ability to ease off the throttle slightly earlier than normal but keep the throttle on, than keeping the throttle down for longer and then totally shut it off, hope this is making sense, when there is a car up your bum. What I found, I lost the car behind coming out the bend as my lines were better and exit speed improved, more balanced car, happier driver!!

I can't say I managed to do this with any great consistency but jeepers, I chopped off .8 off my best lap time from the week before and managed to once again qualify for the A final! In the A final, qualifying 10th on the grid, I whipped past a few and held off some worthy drivers to finish 5th, on yet another productive night. Awesome!!

West Kent on Sunday for some more action, will keep you informed! Haha thoughts on all this waffle, as usual, gratefully received.

Over and out.
Stu

mark christopher

21-08-2015, 08:27 AM

Stuart,

Take it you have never done full Motorsport or a track day?

Using brakes to get the correct t entry speed is essential for quick times, also you use them to balance the car. Take a look at f1 cars or touring, glowing orange brakes disapationg energy, to get that line right, wrc cars balancing the car with the left foot to get car on the apex.
Too much brakes is a handbrake turn, just the eight amount is faster. Non is slower on corners which lead from high speed to slow.
F1 use lift and coast now, its not the quickest, but it saves brakes and fuel, something we don't need to .

stucartwright

21-08-2015, 08:49 AM

Mark, I've done plenty of Track days thanks... Just to be official, and if you hadn't noticed, I don't wish to converse with you on any forum going forwards. Thanks.
Maybe you're different in person, in which case when I meet you at a national maybe that will change.
Best Wishes
Stuart.

joker

21-08-2015, 10:24 AM

I agree with you Stuart I only use the brakes a few corners a lap hairpins, at the end of the straight. I tend to just come off the throttle then turn in I find that turning in scrubs the speed of and as soon as the cars turned in I'm back on the throttle. I've not done any nationals but from the club nites I've done I come out on top top.

stucartwright

21-08-2015, 10:45 AM

Good to know Joker, and especially from a top driver, like yourself .Where do you run buddy?

joker

21-08-2015, 11:56 AM

Cheers Stuart I run mostly at Hinckley rccc on a Saturday but also go to Tamworth, Chesterfield and Broxton when I can.

mark christopher

21-08-2015, 04:27 PM

stucartwright

21-08-2015, 05:18 PM

Nothing was mentioned about you not being able to comment or reply on this public forum, you are very welcome to be included in this thread.

I merely made you aware I do not wish to converse (definition "engage in conversation with") with you, due to the comment you just made I have giving you the dictionary meaning of the word as you obviously didn't know...

For those following this thread, apologies you've had to read this portion of an otherwise very interesting read!

Happy weekend all.

Best Wishes
Stu

SlowOne

21-08-2015, 07:20 PM

Hi Stu,

It's each to their own when it comes to driving style. Recent experience is that those coming from TC tend to brake more than those that come from other classes. Your style is fairly common and as you saw, fast!

Don't sweat it too much. Try not to think about what you are doing and keep the car speed up and tight to the corners. The minute you start thinking about what you are doing and try to adjust it, you'll slow down. Get the muscle memory into your brain by nailing the style you like at a slightly slower speed that gives you time to react. After a while, increase the speed and you'll find you can drive fast without consciously thinking about what your doing - like breathing really!

Once you've nailed your style, now set the car up to maximise the corner speed. Set up is personal so don't be psyched out by someone else's set up. Blindly following another set up usually leads to a dead end. If you find someone who drives like you do, then there's a sense in working together on set ups. Try to know what things do to the car, and then harness that to your style. Copying set ups blindly is a mugs game.

Great to see you are enjoying the class so much - keep up the good work!

stucartwright

21-08-2015, 07:52 PM

Top notch advice Slowone! Will endeavour to keep learning and most of all, keep enjoying....

DaveG

21-08-2015, 09:11 PM

Wow, what an epic read this is...took me all of 3 hrs & umpteen brew/fag breaks before i got to the end :woot:

Wasn't too interested in GT12 at the start, but certainly am now :thumbsup:

Thanks to all involved

stucartwright

21-08-2015, 09:24 PM

Dave G.. What a lovely thing to say, and welcome!!

Where are you based? Don't waste a minute...

Its as infectious and adrenaline rushed hobby as you'll find for a £5 a night... (Plus Tyre stock and all the other temptations a nights racing can keep you from...!!)

mark christopher

21-08-2015, 10:17 PM

stucartwright

22-08-2015, 07:11 AM

I think everyone reading this thread knows what I'm getting at... Clearly shows the intelligence of the man... This is not what I signed up to when I got into this great hobby; especially from a individual representing the BRCA.

Ridiculous...

Bosscat

22-08-2015, 07:26 AM

Guys,
Clearly Stu & Mark are never going to agree well that's life!! Each is entitled to his own opinion I may not agree but I will defend their right to say it especially on a public forum.
Please can we park the sharp comments and get back to what this thread does best, providing valuable info and insight into GT12

Keith

Xracer

22-08-2015, 08:00 AM

Spot on Bosscat, life is too short for petty squabbles, keep this forum technical, not personal, we have a great hobby that builds competitive friendship, lets keep it so, enough said now!

mark christopher

22-08-2015, 09:04 AM

I have all ways and will all ways say it as it is. If I see a newbie spending money to go fast, I'll point out the need to concentrate more on set up and driving, and if they take huff, that is their problem, been in this game far to long to beat about the Bush.
Even more so when it's pointed out 400 posts later.

claymoreman

22-08-2015, 06:14 PM

I been reading this thread since I joined oople not got a gt12 as of yet im back off road racing. gt12 is something I looking to but for now off road is my main passion and the last few posts about peoples thoughts and ideas on how to get the best out seems to have sparked a hand bag war at ten paces something I have learned along the way is listen to peoples advice and take the parts that are pertinant to what you want to achieve with that advice remember someones advice on how to do something may not always give the results as everyone drives different and is different

stucartwright

23-08-2015, 05:31 PM

Its safe to say, my enthusiasm for this thread has been lost; hoping it will come back.

It is clear, my new adopted driving style as described is proving very fruitful.

Over and out.
Stu

Bosscat

24-08-2015, 07:06 AM

No report on your trip to West Kent then Stu? That my friend is huge shame there are many on here looking forward to your report, especially concerning the new driving style.
Surely we can tempt you back?

mark christopher

25-08-2015, 04:20 PM

As admin I have deleted the last three posts, this is about gt12 and is not a place to discuss/debate personal issues, from this post on please keep it on topic.

SlowOne

25-08-2015, 06:31 PM

Please guys, we don't all have to agree on everything. I think we all know how Mark approaches things so I've it all the weight you like between zero and a lot - that's your own decision.

Mark, just because you have suddenly become an admin please consider other people's feelings. Saying it like it is will only get you so far and can be inconsiderate and not in the best interests of the sport or the forum. None of us are omnipotent; every day is a school day.

If you really are doing this for Jimmy, then do it for Jimmy and try to see that keeping the forum together was more important to him than any of our individual filters or approaches to life. It would be a bit of an own goal if you first act as Admin was to effectively close this thread down!

Come on Mark, I know you are much better than your keyboard says you are. Help us out here and back off a little... please.

badger5

25-08-2015, 09:51 PM

Has anyone had issues using the Fastrax 1/12th arbor of JFT wheels? I'm finding the pin that goes through one of the wheels three bolt holes is too long, the half you screw on by hand bottoms out on the pin and thus I can't tighten the wheel correctly.
Do people use spacers or cut the pin short?

shinytopman

25-08-2015, 11:52 PM

Hi Badger,

Personally i cut my pin off, but you can shorten it choice is yours.

As i say i cut mine off and use the jft spider thingy for turing tyres, i got the longer one of the two cos there is plenty of thread on the aubour ( i think it does the 12th scale wheels that have a deeper offset, but does both if you deside to expand into 12th scale).

HTH's

Shiny.

badger5

26-08-2015, 08:20 AM

Thanks for the reply Shinytopman, would be nice for shops to mention this. I will try and pull the pin out. I've ordered the 12mm spacer now so should be good.

I guess you race at Maritime? Had an brilliant time there with the endurance event earlier this year, that track is awesome. Pity we couldn't commit to the proposed rerun in August but everyone was on holiday or just couldn't make it. If Maritime do run a second event like this may even try and get two teams from Torch!

mark christopher

26-08-2015, 08:57 AM

To be fair its a universal adaptor and many 12th wheels fit ok.
I chose the hudy pan car arbor which has been designed for the later wheels Inc wgt.

Xracer

26-08-2015, 10:43 AM

I now have a range of arbors all adapted to improve the sometimes quite poor location and resulting 'wobble' that you see when the wheels are fitted to the car and spun up!

It is also quite shocking to see the state of some ready 'glued and trued' wheels, a case of afternoon factory boredom I suspect!

mark christopher

26-08-2015, 12:20 PM

This is for stu

We appear to have gotten off on the wrong feet, if you have been offended by my comments or guidance, then I appologize. Not only do I say what I think, I also am big enough to put things right, or try to.
If you would like to join me in starting fresh, then please do, and please continue to share to u gt12 experiences. If I do make a comment and you are unsure of my intent, please drop me a pm, or ask on other means, and I will explain, I will also try to express my self better, though I can not promise it will work.

So stu fresh start? Your call now.

Mark

stucartwright

26-08-2015, 05:28 PM

Mark

Thank you very much for your olive branch offering, its very warmly appreciated and I would very much like to start a fresh and move forwards...

However, for me I am a little uncomfortable with you having the final say with anything spoken about on this thread. As I may or may not be correct on, this is the largest thread and biggest viewing rate of any thread on Oople so for that reason I feel your administrative responsibility only comes about because of its popularity...

For that reason I will no long be taking part of GT12 Help... but I would like to be clear that I hold no grudges and hope to build on our relationship Mark as time goes on..

I have started my own forum titled, very aptly, "GT12 Help"... that is a closed group on Facebook. run by a beginner for beginners advised by the experienced...! And whoever else who may wish to have help with their race cars in the GT12 class. I hope it grows like this thread has and offers another means of newbies gaining vast experience from the experienced like yourself Mark.

I sincerely wish you well with your admin roll on Oople and thank you all for all your effort, time and very valued experience. See you on the other side.

Warmest wishes

Stu Cartwright

mark christopher

26-08-2015, 06:21 PM

Stu I think you may be miss understanding things a little, I have been discussing being admin with Jimmy since the begining of this year, possible last year too, and at Bury oOple off road serries Jimmy agreed for me to be admin. unfortunately he passed away just after that meeting, and I have waited for those mourning him to have the time they needed, and have now just been put in the posistion. I will not be having the last say, and I'm not just admin of the gt12 help, it is the whole section I have taken on titled 12/10th on road.

Mark

shinytopman

26-08-2015, 08:19 PM

I guess you race at Maritime? Had an brilliant time there with the endurance event earlier this year, that track is awesome. Pity we couldn't commit to the proposed rerun in August but everyone was on holiday or just couldn't make it. If Maritime do run a second event like this may even try and get two teams from Torch!

Glad you enjoyed the endurance, it was a good event. Sadly i wasnt racing, but did go along later on to spectate.

Maritime is a good venue and a great club shame about the stairs, but worth it when you get there.

Do you know maritime are doing reginals and nationals starting soon for GT12. If your interested check out the maritime facebook page, not sure if its on the web site havent checked, but the info is also on the BRCA site.

I used to race at TORCH many years ago when i lived in pompy. That was before the astro came along, popped many a ball joint and broken wishbone on my procat on the telegraph pole that ran along the main straight coming back through to the mid field.......ahhhh memories was young then, had eyes thumbs and reactions, sadly long since lost.....:cry:

stucartwright

26-08-2015, 09:01 PM

Mark,
Appreciate the update, glad you were able to deliver what you promised Jimmy.
Lots of luck with it.
Stu

beale

27-08-2015, 07:29 PM

Oh for ---- sake difference of opinion it's a forum is that not what it's for and how we all learn come on people drop it, let's hear some race stories and area's people need help or findings that have got people into A finals, I'm a racer that races anything and collects RC gear and this thread has been great including what I call banter!!!

Col

29-08-2015, 07:17 AM

http://img07.deviantart.net/7da4/i/2012/264/0/7/i__m_watching_you_by_moonymonster-d5fglo5.jpg

Martin.s

30-08-2015, 06:10 PM

beale

30-08-2015, 06:22 PM

Do you own calipers? What measurements do you have for wheel bearings and axle diameter? RC bearings are very good but your local bearing and drive specialist will also be able to help,

mark christopher

30-08-2015, 07:32 PM

So... I have the rear Zen Adel which I have fitted to my SSGT with no real issues at all. I would also like to run JFT's on the front but am finding it difficult to find bearings/stub axle that will allow me to do this. I know it's possible as I've seen people running SSGT's with JFT's front and rear. Help?!

It's easy to do

Kit axles
4 8x4 flanged bearings, leave a kit bearing on the axle, fit the flanged bearings to the wheels fit on axle and tighten nut. Job done.

Note you can cut the out kit ball race and just use the inner race as a spacer, using a full bearing adds strength to the flanged one to prevent it getting damaged on an impact.

U1529 Ball Bearing - 4x8x3 Flanged (pr)

shinytopman

30-08-2015, 07:42 PM

Hi Martin.s

I think i read somewhere they are 4x6x3 flanged bearing you need and something about putting a standard SSGT wheel bearing in the middle as a spacer.

And yes +1 on RcBearing great products and service

Come to think of it i think Mark might be right with the size but im only going by memmory and thats a dodgy thing at my age....LOL

But to be certain measure the bearings and the stub axle

mark christopher

30-08-2015, 09:41 PM

mark christopher

30-08-2015, 09:42 PM

Mark christopher If you're deleting post that have nothing to do with gt12 why have you not deleted this obe

Col is the BOSS and overseas everything....and his post is his way of saying we are ALL being watched. He is the one with the ban button..That's why youre post has gone but not his.

Martin.s

31-08-2015, 06:35 AM

Now that is what this thread should be all about...good advice without the bull....thanks all

mark christopher

13-04-2016, 03:32 PM

Stuart....the story continues

(I must give my apologies to Stuart, we have had chats, now understand each other, I came across as a cock! )

stucartwright

13-04-2016, 04:44 PM

Appreciate that Mark; nobody died life goes on.

All the best
Stuart

stucartwright

13-04-2016, 07:15 PM

Since a year ago, crikey what great trip it's been. I've raced at three of the four GT Nationals and I've enjoyed every minute. Racing regularly on a weekly basis at Maritime which is hosted by Ian Knight and his team. Made some super friends there, really have.

Around 4 to 7 people travel to the Nationals staying over and making it a really good one night two day trip with the lads.

Horsham, Braknell and Newbury along with West Kent are four other clubs I visit sporadically and all of them provide a lovely welcome and a great GT12 experience; certainly something for everyone.

My driving has edged forwards, a regular A Finalist at Maritime and I'm 22nd in the National Championship which in my first year in pretty chuffed with. GT12 Help... - a forum I started on Facebook has over 350 members which provides great debate and laughter.

The probably rounds it all up, and should you wish to get in touch, would love to help or hear from anyone.

All the best
Stu Cartwight (aka HughJarce StewartRightcart)