Drive shaft angle????

[Lee]

Right, i have heard that the angle of the drive shafts have a massive effect on the way the car handles. How?? can someone explain, some yank was going on about drive shaft plunge and you want as little as possible on rutted tracks, but i am not sure why it would help and what to alter to change this, i thought the x-6 was the only car with an adjustable height gearbox or am i missing something:confused:

[mattym0310]

It adjusts the point of contact between the the driveshafts and the outdrives. In theory if this point of contact is raised forward bite is increased and you get less side bite. lowering the point of contact does the opposite; more side bite, less forward.

I thinkthis is correct??

[Lee]

So if the hub end is raised, less side bite and more drive??

[Chrislong]

Well done on opening that tin of worms! :lol:

The drive shafts always want to run in a perfect straight line to the diff, the faster the car the more that effect will occur.

So, running unhappy driveshafts / \ will mean the car will squat more due the the drive shafts pulling the wishbones up and in effect, softening the rear suspension. This is why raising the gearbox on an X-6 gives more drive.

Running happy drive shafts \ / will do the opposite.


With CVD's this effect is less, so when driving through a corner and the driveshafts are like this \ \ the wheels can still spinup without the straightening force as much as Losi dogbones will.... this is how the two driveshafts are used as a setup option. (and to be honest, I can't feel the difference).

There are so many variables, and if your bones and outdrives are worn - there'll be no benefit of using this as a tuning option as the driveshafts will always want to run in the peak of the worn section and lock the suspension solid (almost) when lots of torque/revs are going through the wheels. Therefore its also important to not have any tight spots on anything that is meant to move, and I mean ANYTHING.

Chris

[Lee]

Cheers for that chris, very well explained, i understand why now:thumbsup:


Happy unhappy happy unhappy happy unhappy:lol:

[Chrislong]

Happy unhappy happy unhappy happy unhappy:lol:

That'll be the ripple section, only accelerate when unhappy! or if not sure.... nail it anyway, it'll be right 50% of the time.

[Chris Doughty]

bone plunge is how much the end of the dogbone moves into the diff outdrive as the suspension moves.

as little as possible means free'er moving suspension when on power. and it will feel more similar on and off power - a lot of plunge stiffens the suspension on power

if you have a lot of plunge then the effect that Chris mensioned above is amplified.

you can normally change the amount of plunge by making your inner hinge pin as close to the outdrive as possible, and also the inner hinge pins as close to the 'ball' of the bone as possible.

[stegger]

i thought the x-6 was the only car with an adjustable height gearbox or am i missing something:confused:
And the CAT SX;)

[Lee]

And the CAT SX;)


I heard the production car is still 5 months away:thumbdown:

[Lee]

bone plunge is how much the end of the dogbone moves into the diff outdrive as the suspension moves.

as little as possible means free'er moving suspension when on power. and it will feel more similar on and off power - a lot of plunge stiffens the suspension on power

if you have a lot of plunge then the effect that Chris mensioned above is amplified.

you can normally change the amount of plunge by making your inner hinge pin as close to the outdrive as possible, and also the inner hinge pins as close to the 'ball' of the bone as possible.


Cheers Chris D,

Is this something you play about with or is it just a case of get it right and leave it alone:confused:

[Chris Doughty]

never touch it now.

my findings were from back in the XXX4 days (have a look in the Losi section at Stanleys post)

[Northy]

Lee, just drive the thing! :lol:

G

[Lee]

You know i cant to that G, i have to know every inch of the car and why things are the way they are:thumbdown:

[mark christopher]

And the CAT SX;)

but it doesnt, the diff height is adjustable, not the gear box, seeing as its not gear driven but belt driven it dont even have a gearbox!!

[Chrislong]

if you have a lot of plunge then the effect that Chris mensioned above is amplified.


As a good example, this is why the Losi BK2 performs as it does. It has shorter driveshafts and longer outdrives and the plunge was massive.

Resulting in huge amounts of traction in a straight line, but with that comes a bucket full of understeer when on power. Suited me like that - point and squirt.

Chris

[Chrislong]

but it doesnt, the diff height is adjustable, not the gear box, seeing as its not gear driven but belt driven it dont even have a gearbox!!

Its the height of the diff which makes the difference. Ride height remaining the same, if diff is raised than outdrive unhappy and traction increase. Whether we say raised diff or raised gearbox makes no difference - same effect either way.

Its a box which holds a gear driven by a belt. its a gearbox! :lol:

[tonymon]

wow i actually understood all of this!

id prefer to have my car with happy driveshafts, its not worth having a car thats sad!

[mark christopher]

Its the height of the diff which makes the difference. Ride height remaining the same, if diff is raised than outdrive unhappy and traction increase. Whether we say raised diff or raised gearbox makes no difference - same effect either way.

Its a box which holds a gear driven by a belt. its a gearbox! :lol:
i know i was making the point that the schunmacher does not have a gear box, 9as the poster said the schumacher had adjustable gearbox height) altering the diff hieght is the end result your after


im sure schumacher wont call it a gear box, more a diff housing, even then the housing does not move, the diff bearing eccentrics move the diff up and down, the gear box is fixed!
Besides is a belt driven "gear" not known as a pulley:p it is in my work

[Chrislong]

:lol: tut, your in one of the argumentative moods aren't you? okay okay, your right! ha ha.

I didn't think the purpose of the eccentric cam bearing housing for the pulley box was there to serve the purpose of diff height as a setup aid, but for belt tension. If Mossy or MattW can explain if the purpose is belt tension or diff height adjustment?

Also, having the driveshafts sweep forward or back causes an effect - I am lost at this point though. Can somebody explain?

Chris

[Lee]

Chris, when running the MI3 we could alter the diff height, it was either high or low, it was on a cam and belt tension didnt really matter as it was flat out everywhere:lol: The original point of them was belt tension though, people just used it as a tuning option

[telboy]

If its the same as the Mi3 (which I'm sure it is) then the belt tension remains similar and it is just the height of the diff which is altered. We used to mess around with this in the TC to help set ups.


Anyway, don't let mark win, get argueing with him!!!!:p

:lol:

[Alfonzo]

Pretty sure any sweep forward or backwards will increase the lateral loading on the outboard bearings, but I don't think it will have any effect upon suspension:confused: I'd imagine that any extra rotating mass gain through mud on tyres, etc will amplify the effect.

[MRD]

Is it not the case that rasing/lowering the diff effects the CG and thats what people are feeling, not the drive angle? :confused:.

[Lee]

Is it not the case that rasing/lowering the diff effects the CG and thats what people are feeling, not the drive angle? :confused:.


I dont think that statement is true, because you could alter the height of the hub and give the same effect, CL explaination seems to make sense and i trust chris, and CD backed it up. Its good enough for me:thumbsup:

[Chrislong]

Is it not the case that rasing/lowering the diff effects the CG and thats what people are feeling, not the drive angle? :confused:.

No.

if the effect was as simple as the weight of it effecting C of G, we'd be putting lead high up on the tower rather than going through all the effort raising the gearbox.

[Richard Lowe]

With CVD's this effect is less, so when driving through a corner and the driveshafts are like this \ \ the wheels can still spinup without the straightening force as much as Losi dogbones will....

I think you have that backwards Schlong, CVD's are the ones that want to straighten themselves under load ;)

[Chris Doughty]

when looking at the top of the car, if the driveshafts sweep forwards as they go outwards the car will want to rise when on power.

if they sweep backwards the car will want to lower its self when on power.

[Chrislong]

I think you have that backwards Schlong, CVD's are the ones that want to straighten themselves under load ;)

Hiya Rich!

Now you say it, I have a feeling you are right. Can anybody else confirm either way?

[Chrislong]

when looking at the top of the car, if the driveshafts sweep forwards as they go outwards the car will want to rise when on power.

if they sweep backwards the car will want to lower its self when on power.

Got it, with some funky hand movement and chin scratching - I think I can remember it too...:lol:

CD, can you confirm the thing above, is it the Dogbone or CVD's which straighten up more on drive?

[Paul_Sinclair]

I'm pretty sure RL is right... CVD's are "stiffer" or want to straighten out more than Losi-style universals.

[Chris Doughty]

I seem to remember CVD's make the car square up much quicker (stiffer) than dogbones.

I love not having to worry about any of this stuff anymore.

[ashleyb4]

i think its all part of the fun chris worrying about the little things.

It is facanating reading this thread ive always ondered what the diffrence between cvd's and dogbones are

A

[Lee]

when looking at the top of the car, if the driveshafts sweep forwards as they go outwards the car will want to rise when on power.

if they sweep backwards the car will want to lower its self when on power.


This is interesting, i can see it now too, because im imagining CL`s hand movements:lol:

So shortening the wheelbase of the car is not just about getting more weight behind the wishbones, there is more to it. Nice to know this stuff:thumbsup:

[Northy]

Schlong, I'm sure Elvo told me that Gill Losi Jr set out to have zero dogbone plunge on the BK2.... :confused::confused:

G

[Chris Doughty]

there are so many 'simple' changes that we make that also change other things about the car that we don't or may not understand or realise, like you say, wheelbase does not just change the wheelbase, but also the driveshaft angle.

[Chrislong]

Schlong, I'm sure Elvo told me that Gill Losi Jr set out to have zero dogbone plunge on the BK2.... :confused::confused:

G

Then im pretty sure Elvo is wrong. It has a bucket full of plunge with those stumpy driveshafts. I know that as I drove one for quite a while - do you still have your BK2? I don't have mine otherwise id be double checking. :blush:

[Chris Doughty]

I seem to remember there being a lot of plunge.

they might as well have stuck a solid rear axle on the car the rear was that tight on power

[Northy]

Maybe I remember it the wrong way round. :(

I'm sure he'll pop by and let us know.

I don't have mine any more - converted it to a Hybrid - then a CR - then sold it. Stu and Damo still run them and like them! :woot:

I have a few bits left at home....

G

[Alfonzo]

when looking at the top of the car, if the driveshafts sweep forwards as they go outwards the car will want to rise when on power.

if they sweep backwards the car will want to lower its self when on power.

I can't get this :confused: Can you explain more?

[Lee]

The way i have it in my mind is:

Shafts angled / \ (backwards) means as they rotate they try and lift the rear end as they are pulling the wheels (sort of)

When angled \ / (forwards) in my mind they make the car squat more on power and drives the rear end into the ground


Someone correct me if im wrong:confused:

[Chris Doughty]

imagine if the driveshaft was at a 45 degree angle to the outdrive and the the dogbone and outdrive was glued up so it didn't pivot (super-extreme case of binding) when you apply the power if they are sweeping forwards they will 'push' down on the hub end (wheel)
if they are sweeping backwards they will 'push' up on the hub/wheel end.

we dont have 'that' much resistance in the outdrive/bone end but the effect is there. on some cars more than others depending on how efficient their outdrive/bone end materials move on each other

its not the easiest thing to explain, but I hope it makes sense

[Alfonzo]

Think I've got it now. Theoretically it will have no effect, it's as a result of diff outdrive resistance. I wonder if all this is affected by any gyroscopic forces encountered during cornering..:woot:

[Chris Doughty]

The way i have it in my mind is:

Shafts angled / \ (backwards) means as they rotate they try and lift the rear end as they are pulling the wheels (sort of)

When angled \ / (forwards) in my mind they make the car squat more on power and drives the rear end into the ground


Someone correct me if im wrong:confused:

oposite I think.

forwards they are pushing the wheels 'down' thus raising the ride height

backwards they pull the wheels up, making the rear end drop

[Lee]

Ok i see now chris i was thinking of the car squatting rather than the wheels being forced into the ground.

Cheers;)

[Chris Doughty]

Ok i see now chris i was thinking of the car squatting rather than the wheels being forced into the ground.

Cheers;)

thats it, you got it

[SHY]

Ballbearing all this in mind I guess the steel outdrives are better suited than the plastic ones? (less friction & less wear)

I know even from onroad (1:8TR) this is very important, you'd better replace dogbones and outdrives quite often, maybe only the dogbone pins. The effects explained are important, but it's also important not to have to much slop back and forth, as this will make the car not accelerate in a straight line (deviating time of engagement).

I found that for onroad using teflon spray more or less totally eliminated wear! It's unbelievable! Any form of sticky grease just collects dirt and makes things worse! But this thing dries up. Doesen't seem to work for OR though...

Any good tips & tricks here for OR? (I'm sure Olivier would fit some tiny bearings on each pin :lol:)

[Chris Doughty]

we tried bearings, can't remember what they were knicknamed, but we used Losi steering bearings on the dogbone pins (losi) and had much bigger slots in the outdrives and a thin saver ring on the outside.

[SHY]

LOL! Someone had to try it! :)

But no noticeable improvement I guess?

Do you guys use MIP lube or anything else? Or run everything dry?

[elvo]

Maybe I remember it the wrong way round. :(

I'm sure he'll pop by and let us know.

I don't have mine any more - converted it to a Hybrid - then a CR - then sold it. Stu and Damo still run them and like them! :woot:


*pop*


I remember the BK2 having near zero dogbone plunge. And the CR and original XXX having ... .. well, not lots, but a fait amount.

I will go on a Google run and try to prove it!

[elvo]

we tried bearings, can't remember what they were knicknamed, but we used Losi steering bearings on the dogbone pins (losi) and had much bigger slots in the outdrives and a thin saver ring on the outside.

BK Bones?

[Northy]

Hi Elvo :thumbsup:

[elvo]

*pop*


I remember the BK2 having near zero dogbone plunge. And the CR and original XXX having ... .. well, not lots, but a fait amount.

I will go on a Google run and try to prove it!



One of the BK2's most significant new features is its management of "friction dynamics," to use Team Losi's term. The BK2's MIP CVDs are significantly shorter and mate with longer diff outdrives. The new geometry reduces the distance the CVD's dogbones move inside the outdrives during suspension articulation ("dogbone plunge" is the term Losi uses). With reduced dogbone plunge, the BK2's suspension travel is smoother and the drag-braking effect of plunge friction is reduced.


From: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3825/is_200404/ai_n9383774


Q.E.D.

[rich_cree]

sure we've been through this before.......:)

[Chris Doughty]

sure we've been through this before.......:)

about 4 years ago when we were trying to make the BK2 work?

[SHY]

How about hardcoated alu outdrives and teflon coated dogbones?

[elvo]

Hi Northy!

[AmiSMB]

What about some dry lube (http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/teflon-plus-lube.htm)?

[bigred5765]

What about some dry lube (http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/teflon-plus-lube.htm)?

think this would work better
FISTER (http://www.fister-rc.com/proguctions.html)

[Alfonzo]

How about hardcoated alu outdrives and teflon coated dogbones?

The dogbones (assuming steel) would soon kill the alu outdrives, as there's always going to be a small amount of backlash due to manufacturing tolerances. Hard coated ally is good, but it's still ally underneath and prone to distortion.

[SHY]

Naaa... sceptical... :wtf:

The first one looks like lubrication for chains. I used to do Motocross, and those chain lubes are great - but still kinda sticky, so it will pick up dust. For chains it's more about preventing wear & stretch than being smooth I think.

The second ones look like grease, which I guess wouldn't be good either. I'd love to have some bad-ass hard spray-on dry teflon stuff!

I had a very special car before, the swiss SMP Slide, which came with CNC machined alu parts, incl. transmission parts. And those were hard coated (it's way way thicker than "tinted" coating). That stuff was very slippery and almost unwearable! Even with a lathe it was extremely hard to cut into!

I think I've read about people treating the inside of their engine with some teflon fluid, which made a strong coating. Is this possible to do "at home"?

[SHY]

The dogbones (assuming steel) would soon kill the alu outdrives, as there's always going to be a small amount of backlash due to manufacturing tolerances. Hard coated ally is good, but it's still ally underneath and prone to distortion.

With a steel ring on the outside then (saver ring)?

Cuz steel can't be hardcoated right???

[mark christopher]

:lol: tut, your in one of the argumentative moods aren't you? okay okay, your right! ha ha.

I didn't think the purpose of the eccentric cam bearing housing for the pulley box was there to serve the purpose of diff height as a setup aid, but for belt tension. If Mossy or MattW can explain if the purpose is belt tension or diff height adjustment?

Also, having the driveshafts sweep forward or back causes an effect - I am lost at this point though. Can somebody explain?

Chris
i went to the top and was told this at worksop schumacher finals by mr phil booth :thumbsup:
turn em over and they still tension belts but also alter diff height:p

[mark christopher]

Hiya Rich!

Now you say it, I have a feeling you are right. Can anybody else confirm either way?
ill confirm your wrong again lol:p:thumbsup:

[RogerM]

Wrong, there are many different hard coatings you can apply to steel, such as DLC (diamond like coating) ..... you wouldn't want to be paying for it as an aftermarket opperation though!!!!

This is all very interesting stuff.

When I did the layout for Mako I used a fair amount of rear driveshaft angle to help with the rear squatting. There was also a little on the front, that was there to help limit the effects of the one-way diff (as the car sat under it's driveshafts it helped lift the nose and thus limit the grip from the front end as the diff locked),we had to run as there was no off the shelf shaft one-way and the one I planned never made it off the CAD system as I didn't have my own lathe or mill back then.
The combined effect was to make the car quite reactive to throttle inputs on the front and not so at the rear ..... this resulted in a very smooth drive so the car could be thrown around with out risk of it biting.

Who is going to unlock the other cans of worms surrounding the black art of handling???

By the way the most useful thing you can do when racing / testing is get somebody with good descriptive skills to watch your car and explain what it is doing, even better video it so you can see. When you don't you run the risk of chasing the wrong thing ... as happened to me at Worksop.

[Alfonzo]

With a steel ring on the outside then (saver ring)?

Cuz steel can't be hardcoated right???

Ring would help, not sure it would cure though. Steel can be hardened in many different ways, heat treating, nitriding, cryogenic etc etc.
So steel outdrives would be good, but then there's the weight :thumbdown:. Titanium maybe?

[Lee]

Roger: We dont need to start a thread on handling we have the black book

http://users.pandora.be/elvo/

[AmiSMB]

The first one looks like lubrication for chains. I used to do Motocross, and those chain lubes are great - but still kinda sticky, so it will pick up dust. For chains it's more about preventing wear & stretch than being smooth I think.

I tried out the Finish line dry lube on my Losi 8 buggy at the weekend and I was amazed how it dried onto the CV joints. I have been trying to easy the wear the the 8ight buggy gets on the front centre cvd pins and I have to say that I felt that the car was so free. I will see how this affects the rate of wear.

[SHY]

Well yes, but I'm mostly concerned about friction. That rotating mass gain I've never been able to clock. Total weight reduction yes, but not rotating mass. Spite the theory. This is after all insanely overpowered toy cars :lol:

So how can we make these driveshafts as smooth as possible? And as long-lasting as possible?

(I have a strong feeling the ball diff solution can be improved too, but I'll not start that here...)

@AmiSMB: how dry is it? Spray or grease?

[Chrislong]

When I build driveshafts of any type, if its metal on metal then I use black AE thrust lube on them. I then wipe any excess away so the lube is not exposed to pick up sand etc.

On the drive pin end of the bone, I usually lube it then wipe it so it has a thin coat and it feels good.

Trouble is, it'll only feel great like this for a few runs.

New bones and outdrives always make cars feel great (well lubed), especially AE where the bone and outdrive is small which amplifies any play compared to a bigger outdrive such as on a Losi.

And remember guys, all the above in this thread is made irrelevant if you have outdrives with wear, because it'll just pull the pin into the peak of the curve when on power.

Chris

[SHY]

Yes, which is why it's so damn important to take care of this! :)

How about a cover? Like those old school rubber covers on the Tamiya Frog etc? Worked well back in the 80s!

Anyone tried? Different materials? Neoprene? Rubber stays well in place which is good.

I see the Aero has plastic on the pins for the center shaft. Didn't TC have that before on the driveshafts as well?

[Lee]

TC`s did have the blades on some cars but you had to change the front ones every run if you were running a spool:thumbdown:

[_sleigh_]

The D4 runs blades when running the Edit diff halves and I suspect the CAT SX runs them too.

[SHY]

And the idea with blades is to run without lube? And no slop at all?

[AmiSMB]

how dry is it? Spray or grease?


I bought the bottle and it goes on wet and it is very thin. When it is dry it is dry to the touch, I left the parts overnight. Seems to have worked really well. I am hoping that this will reduce the wear over running the cvd without any form of lubrication. I got researching after I saw the Dry Ice product by Sullivan and then found that there is a product called Purple Extreme which does a similar thing and then found the Finishing line product to be very similar so thought why not try it :)

[Gayo]

How about a cover? Like those old school rubber covers on the Tamiya Frog etc? Worked well back in the 80s!


Mike Truhe used some on his CR at the last Worlds (pics courtesy of Cédric Devillers)
http://bp2.blogger.com/_uwoVC10q7eM/Ruae6wHPsJI/AAAAAAAAARU/jtpC35l2EKc/s1600/IMG_3189blog.JPG
Edit - look here : http://2007japanworld.blogspot.com/2007/09/losi-xxx-cr.html
This thread is fantastic ! You must love the Net and oOple:wub

[Lee]

Cant we just use a fatter pin so it looks like this ==, this would then spread the force applied to the outdrive and reduce wear, and make everything last longer:confused:

[SHY]

I'd kill myself from boredom at work without oOple! :(

Link to webshop for that Finish line product?

Can't see any pic Gayo!

How about ceramic coatings or materials? Aren't those super slippery? Many years ago there was speak about 1:1 ceramic car engines that wouldn't even need oil...

[Alfonzo]

Cant we just use a fatter pin so it looks like this ==, this would then spread the force applied to the outdrive and reduce wear, and make everything last longer:confused:

You could, but it's always a trade-off with Engineering. You have to consider weights and rotating masses. Also, perhaps you might want to ensure a spare parts demand over the life of the model ..;):woot:

[Gayo]

Can't see any pic Gayo!


Edited

[Northy]

Anyone know what the rubber covers are from?

G

[AmiSMB]

Link to webshop for that Finish line product?


Links:-

Sullivan Dry Ice (http://www.sullivanproducts.com/NewProductsMainFrame.htm)

Purple Extreme (http://www.purpleextreme.com/)

Dry Teflon Plus Dry Lube website (http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/teflon-plus-lube.htm)

AW Cycles (http://www.awcycles.co.uk/brands/Finish%20Line/Dry%20Teflon%20Lube/965/index.aspx)

Hargrove Cycles (http://www.hargrovescycles.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=262&hargrovesSID=07337749c68e89431e1ed24a73779d1e)

Halfords BikeHut dry teflon lube (http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_21 7309_langId_-1_CarSelectorCatalogId__CarSelectorGroupId__varien t__categoryId_31380_crumb__parentcategoryrn_31380)

Just put "Finish line dry teflon lube" in Google and you will find many more web shops selling the stuff.

[SHY]

Anyone know what the rubber covers are from?

G

I think from Nortechracing in the very near future! ;):lol:

I want blue ones made of neoprene, with inner anti-skid rubber at the ends (like inside the girls' stay ups :woot:)

[RogerM]

Roger: We dont need to start a thread on handling we have the black book

http://users.pandora.be/elvo/

Yes, never leave home (well for racing at least) without it!!!:thumbsup:

Ok, re-phase .... "chassis design" instead of "handling".

[Lee]

(like inside the girls' stay ups :woot:)


I know exactly what you mean, that stuff is dead sticky yet not sticky at the same time:thumbsup:



Dont you find it pulls at the hairs on your legs though:lol::thumbsup:

[Alfonzo]

I think from Nortechracing in the very near future! ;):lol:

I want blue ones made of neoprene, with inner anti-skid rubber at the ends (like inside the girls' stay ups :woot:)

Just check you get the right size - too small and they'll chaff the inside of your thighs..:woot:

[SHY]

It's superb! Even my Spy ski goggles and my italian pinstripe suit has it! :cool:

No RC yet...


Dont you find it pulls at the hairs on your legs though:lol::thumbsup:

Like Max Mosley I like it when it hurts! :lol::lol::lol:

[Richard Lowe]

I usually lube it then wipe it so it has a thin coat and it feels good.
Chris at his best :lol:

[AmiSMB]

Try these for CVD covers

http://www.prestwich.ndirect.co.uk/GA7A2.jpg
From Prestwich Model Boats (http://www.prestwich.ndirect.co.uk/hdwraccs.htm)

I also use Fastrax 182 rubber gators for CVD joints and have found some on flea bay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-FASTRAX-RUBBER-CVD-JOINT-DUST-COVERS-No-FAST-182_W0QQitemZ290217440375QQihZ019QQcategoryZ19168Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

[SHY]

Chris at his best :lol:

How long is it? LOL!!! :lol:

[elvo]

Anyone know what the rubber covers are from?

G


The HPI Baja has covers.....

[Chrislong]

Chris at his best :lol:

Yeh, well got to wipe the lube off before the bone goes in as it'll hold grit which just grinds the parts away, and gritty lube isn't good.

[AmiSMB]

LMAO :lol:

[Richard Lowe]

Yeh, well got to wipe the lube off before the bone goes in as it'll hold grit which just grinds the parts away, and gritty lube isn't good.
Ouch, that'd be sore :lol:

[mark christopher]

The D4 runs blades when running the Edit diff halves and I suspect the CAT SX runs them too.
cat has steel pins/steel outdrives (or car they are running does)
Cant we just use a fatter pin so it looks like this ==, this would then spread the force applied to the outdrive and reduce wear, and make everything last longer:confused:
fatter pin would spread the load more but also create more friction??



does anyone remember the cat 2000? drive shafts that actually had bearings in the teloscopic shafts and the shaft was secured to the outdrive and the wheel axle? (siminlay to early car or current traxxas slider shafts)

[Gayo]

I believe that the telescopic shafts with bearings were options for the BossCat and stock items on the BossCat Works and the Cougar 2. Ace system ! Über-cool, SHY !
The first Cat 2000s were only wearing telescopic shaft, without bearings.

[mark christopher]

bosscat had telescopic shafts with no bearings unless you used the one way axles (all plastic),was the cat 98 the car that came out after the bosscat works had em std they were steel inserts and bushes, bearings were an option
def not the bosscat as i had a converted buggy/touring car that i won a national with!!
they then went onto the red hollow drive shafts that came unbonded on the early ones

[SHY]

I actually do think I have CAT like that in my vintage collection :) Must say those cars were highly sophisticated! First thing I noticed was the very special driveshafts and the one-ways out in the rims. My first thought was "This must have been one hell of a fast car when nothing breaks!" :lol:

One of my first RC cars was the Kyosho Progress 4WDS, it was very complex but a totally hopeless car in so many ways! :lol:

Jokes aside, why not use telescopic shafts today? Still friction and no gain? Plus more heavy and complex...

Sometimes the KISS principle applies of course. The Veteq was a good example of that...

[Chrislong]

yeh i remember those. The pre XLS, Procat and Bosscat had plastic on plastic sliders, then the Cat 2000 had bearing or bronze bushing rollers inside them. Then they did the red ones, then the blades. Back then, the Losi had telescopics, so did the traxxas.

I wonder why they are never used on new designs? What was wrong. i remember the Procat wearing the steel balls quicker than the plastic.

[Alfonzo]

You got it :)

[Gayo]

bosscat had telescopic shafts with no bearings unless you used the one way axles (all plastic),was the cat 98 the car that came out after the bosscat works had em std they were steel inserts and bushes, bearings were an option
def not the bosscat as i had a converted buggy/touring car that i won a national with!!
they then went onto the red hollow drive shafts that came unbonded on the early ones
Well I was thinking about these :
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/ColinGrenegersWORLDSProcat3.jpg

I never had those on my cars (too damn expensive !) but I thought they were sporting ball bearings :confused: