Jorn's Euros 4WD car
 

Spy shots of Jorn's Euros 4wd car that Gerd has built:

http://courgette.jml.net/~neal/RC/Serpent4wd01t.jpg
http://courgette.jml.net/~neal/RC/Serpent4wd02t.jpg
Click images for bigger view.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/infoRC.net/...63421683761908


Haven't seen his 2wd car, but I've been told it was running xray arms.

Funny to see how much they have already injection moulded: Arms, gearbox, servo saver, front hubs... It looks good; I can't help getting distracted by those waffles next to it though! :lol:

Read about this 4wd and the 2wd used to take second overall over on the Team Serpent blog. :thumbsup:

surango...

Seriously, I mean they are simply remaking the same 410 V4 buggy all over again and slapping a Serpent sticker on it thinking no one would notice? Ya I get that Gerd is the original developer of this chassis, but he made it as a Durango employee right? Isn't there some sort of intellectual property that Durango maintains? So much for Billy Eastons SRX4 I guess?

Make a search on sdx-4 and you'll find a chassis focus on Redrc on it. Similar to Durango of course. Not that strange really. Almost every shafts driven car look more or less the same these days.
Nice win by Jörn with it in the third leg of the Euros today. He owned Bruno in that one. Congrats to him for that we'll deserved win. Sorry that Cragg had such misfortune but Ae really need to step up their game. Modern 4wd cars are much more easy to work on. That diff could easily been put in the right way swiftly on any other car.

Besides being shaft driven, can you tell me how it's Durango related? It's a brand new, ground-up design. If you've seen the Serpent SRX8 you'll be able to see how many design cues they share.
Unless the car is an exact copy of an existing design - which it isn't - you can't say there are any issues with intellectual property. There are many cars on the market that are very close indeed in terms of design - YZ-2 & B6, S12-1M & RB6 - this is a Serpent car that takes cues from Serpent products.
Nope - both the SRX4 and SDX4 platforms will sit alongside each other. It's down to the customer's preference of belt or shaft. Let's not forget the SRX4 has won both the Austrian/German nats and the DHI Cup.

Congratulations to Neumann on his win this weekend, he can certainly drive, he is one of the best in the world. That was great racing. However, the car he ran is still to me at its heart, a 410 (the shaft drive, similar aluminum bulkheads, the angled gear boxes and similar shock towers) its an evolution of what he ran for Durango (now shorty compatible, revised electronics layout). Gerd has designed a buggy that Neumann is obviously very comfortable with andshouldbe interesting to watch this season in EOS. The 410 vs SDX4 and YZ2 vs B6 si ilarities argument is quite true. I think AE borrowed heavily from Yokomo in desiging their new buggy. I think the days of the SRX4 however are numbered, why would Serpent continue to produce a competing kit to the (superior!?) SDX4? Could they afford to produce and support two different buggies in the same class? That's hard to fathom.

both of you seem to have forgot before the "Durango " as we know it was put into production, Serpent were making it as the s500


http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...-ep-buggy.html

I haven't forgotten about it - I was merely pointing out that as a Strenge designed car it's bound to share cues from his previous designs, and it definitely isn't an existing car with some stickers slapped on as some seem to like suggesting!

Very few people know the extent of the R&D work that's gone into Serpent's off road programme, yet people appear to already be experts and know the ins and outs of cars that are yet to be released... :confused:

Gerd will always make a familiar looking car wherever he works, he probably believes passionately that the design he works around is the best platform, quite rightly so as he has designed some cars that work well, I have been told the car we saw at the Euros was the basic car they wanted to use at the worlds but then it just wasn't ready.

For me the problem has nothing to do with Gerd,jorn or the new car,it will probably be very good. The problem was with serpent marketing,They should never released the srx4 as for those that bought it within a few weeks it was out of date as most of the works team decided not to use it at the worlds.....and those people I know who have run one it was for a very good reason!

If your going to release the car you need to stand by it.

The whole team including Jorn should have run the car being sold, the new car should have been tested and all R&D done out of sight after big meetings etc only being shown just before release.

To me here in the uk the srx4 has been a disaster,and the new car will have to be really good to bring club and regional races back and ready to spend 300ish quid

Found this from back in May
https://www.facebook.com/Neumann-Rac...8152691593749/

I was going to resist posting but since some are being silly, I thought I would join in and be silly too with a different point of view :)

At the Euros this year, Serpent in 2wd TQed 3 out of 5 rounds. Jorn driving the forthcoming 2wd finished 2nd in the finals behind Neil Cragg arguably one of the best drivers in the world.
In the 4wd event Jorn with his pre-production Serpent beat many talented drivers including 2 World Champions, many European champions, which were all there with their full Teams that had many more cars running round the track for feedback, set up work and so on. All by himself and his mechanic, with a car that had never been run on that chassis. It sort of makes one think, or certainly makes me think, either Jorn and Gerd are superhuman or the new SDX4 is super good.....think about it a little :)

Now you guys can have opinions and of course its accepted and welcomed that everyone has opinions but let's keep to the facts rather than unfounded speculations and dwelling in the past.

Some more facts:
A Final 4wd
no Schumacher
no Team C
no Durango (LOL at this one)
no Losi
no PR Racing
no Kyosho
no HB

The other fact is Serpent have worked extremely hard to make good cars for the European market rather than settling for cars that are super good in the States.....nothing wrong with that at all and we should all be grateful....I am :)

the track surface also played a major part in the results.
Jorn has had track time on that track before.
The track is closer to the kinds of tracks in the states than in europe.
This car, the "Serpango" is a car that has taken serpent parts and the basis of the Durango 410 to make a new car a platform that Jorn is happy and comfortable with.
His results running the retail Serpent 4wd are nothing to shout about.

Jorn is a quality driver, that much is clear just by watching him in any class, but what i think is a bone of contention is that the car he is winning with is not the car available to everyday racers, add to that the fact that the car that people have shelled out for is not particularly good on our tracks and seems to have been ditched by the manufacturer in favour of the new one

I agree that there are only so many option when designing a shaft drive car, so I won't go into the serpent/durango/copy argument.

BUT : I still think the worlds was a PR disaster for Serpent. What were they thinking ? I certainly would have felt cheated owning an SRX4.
I would have respected the team a lot more if they had raced the SRX4 and finished 10 places lower. Didn't Billy Easton do that ?

Racers don't get enough support from the 'brands' they buy and its left mostly to local heroes to help the club racers out.

Here is a team, Serpent, who have just won the euros, and people must just be unhappy that it wasn't their team.

Go Serpent! be proud

Forums should have like and dislike buttons :)

As a driver and a distributor for Serpent in the UK and Ireland, I am here for anyone that requires any type of help

;)

Yeah agree, and with RudeTony. Very well done to Joern and Gerd and Serpent. He drove excellently, a deserved win, and an all round nice bloke to when I've spoken to him.

Did any one catch JQ's blog? https://thequagraine.com/

His SRX4 results have been fine, in my eyes at least - he had a very unlucky EOS season and had to work with the car before it was fully optimised for high grip. He was up at the sharp end several times but the driving standards in some of the A finals, particularly at round 3, were utterly atrocious and he never really got the results he deserved. Aside from that, winning the German nationals and winning the DHI Cup (beating Orlowski and Coelho on carpet!), as well as finishing 2nd at the Euros, shows it's quite a handy car.
Well it's not available because it's pre-production - you'll be able to buy the car yourself soon. I don't remember people getting annoyed at the B6 being run at the EOS before it was released to the public... it's just normal practice.

Whilst it's true the SRX4 in its original form was suited slightly better to low grip, you only have to look at the oOple Series results from this year to see that it's by no means a slouch on astro. It's different to the rest of the crowd, but it's a very quick car.
Serpent released an official statement on the Worlds situation. The prototype shaft car was run by Hupo and Jörn because they felt most comfortable using that layout to gather data and aid development, the results of which you can now see. Billy ran the SRX4 with the aluminium chassis and shorty conversion which is what the UK team use for high grip surfaces. Despite not getting in the A, Billy's final times were actually some of the quickest and most consistent of the entire event, even though it was his first time ever on astro. The SRX4 is in no way the inferior platform that some make it out to be.

Hello all , I do wonder how short some people s memories are , please Google the Serpent S500 , as designed by Gerd.
I like many watched the Billy Easton Serpent srx4 announcement at the Reedy race , and waited and waited for the kit release like others , whilst the decision to run a development car for the world's , I personally don't think did the brand any favours, but lets not forget Serpent weren't the only one running prototype cars Kyosho running the RZ6 and what is now the RB6.6 , associated running the B6 and as for X-ray it's one continuous update

I have spoken to a guy who raced at the world's he said the surface was pretty alien to the astro surfaces we run on here in great Britain


I have since bought the Serpent , if you look as mentioned before Billy Easton s final time beat Hupos time including fastest lap and was on par with Jorns lap times , = SRX4 more than capable


Now I also think it's fair to say the B44 is getting long in the tooth but it didn't stop Cragg putting it 2nd on the grid last week at the euros.

It's my belief that there's not a bad car / chassis out there , people are to easily swayed on what goes on at the very top level of our sport , I ran last winter a team c tm4 , it was great , but I let a few negative comments about the car get in my head , so sold it on ( it was mint ) the guy that bought has come 2nd in the EOE championship with the very car I sold him.

I am going to give the Serpent the chance it truly deserves , and as I don't believe in giving cars away if they fall out of vogue it can sit along side my dex410 , which regularly gets an outing ,and beats all the people I normally beat and falls short of beating the ones I don't . I wonder if it might be me not the chassis that has the biggest impact on where I end up ? 😯

Good luck drivers and go racing on the sound of the tone

THe SRX4 is still a car I would like to try out.

this sdx4 looks quite different to a durango if you look closely at the pictures, obviously it has the same basic background, as does virtually every other 4wd shaft car but is definately unique in its construction. as for people saying its a pr disaster for serpent, i have to say no to that, if they produce a shaft drive and belt drive car together then they are more likely to have a car that suits a greater number of different drivers. every driver has a slightly different preference and style and every driver will find that a different chassis will suit them best, the problem is just knowing what chassis suits you.... same with diffs, some people love a gear diff, others hate them, all down to the driver

After reading JQ's comments on Jorn at the Euro's, I'd say he is spot on. "He basically drove a new version of what we used to know as the Durango", as said, an evolution of Gerds design, (yes, originally a Serpent prototype S500) which is now again, a Serpent, and he's a great driver.

I will concede, it is more than a 410 with stickers, (gee, you guys took that literally), but don't try to convince me it's a ground up/all new design either.

Whatever anyone says - bottom line is the winning car was pretty much a Durango with a few revisions.

I've never owned a Serpent - but i'd be well annoyed if i'd bought the SRX4 as it's looks lie it will have a very short shelf life / support etc.

I also find it amusing that the 410 platform - which was so popular a few years ago - but then lost favour and drivers in their droves - was the car to beat at the Euros.

Might 'blow the dust' off my 410 :)

what lost favour with drivers was the lack of parts support, drop in quality and constant behind the scenes changes for the company that was producing the 410

I had a word with Gerd at the euro's and yes basic it looks like a dango but so do most shaft cars if you look at the drive trains solo.
Geometric the car has changed a lot .
If u look close and all cars next to one and other u will see the diference .
Those changes also helpt the car a lot at the euro's.
My idea Gerd and Jorn did a great job creating a car that can beat a xray car on all terain and is stronger and more durable .
The srx4 may not be the fastest out there but i love myne and will stay serpent as there service is great for me .

Most 4wd really don't look like a Durango actually none of them do

I think he was on about the drive tourain not the overall look of the car

Ok get that however the car overall looks like a Durango not much thought there

Hi again all
This is not directed to anyone specifically - Its a general thing.

I don't get it at all
Who cares what it looks like!
Who cares if it's similar to a Durango and surely if it's the same designer wouldn't you want that man to make sure his ideas that he believes in, are carried over?
It's the fastest car in Europe and it WORKS
Surely drivers should be thriving on that and thinking this car could actually make me faster.
And as for support? There is no part not stocked in the UK for next day delivery....not all can say that either.

So much negativity it's unreal - Think positive people, late September, early October will be like Christmas time :)

I'm a bit curious about the peculiar spur assembly. Is it some kind of centre diff ?

Hi Tony

I don't thinks is negativeness towards serpent as such more disappointment serpent spent a long time devolving the belt car which in all fairness wasn't great jorn then turned up at a major championship with his old car (Durango) called it a serpent which it clearly wasn't then rightly or wrongly serpent produced A car more similar than not to the Durango

Yes there is only so many concepts that a 4wd car can take copy of no copy that's fair enough

It's just the way serpent went about it

I wonder how Billy Easton feels being kicked in the bollocks by jorn and serpent

This is just my option from the outside looking in and know doubt in true Stu form I'll probably chuck the odd sarcastic comment in every now and then. 😎

I agree with dicostu


But at least the new car will WORK! can't remember serpent saying the old one wouldn't,

So forget the old one, pull you wallet out and get ready for the new one as its starting to feel like christmas :p

Hi Guys
I am in agreement to a certain point.
Billy is a great designer and person. He will admit that the SRX4 is an amazing car for the US style tracks but they never had a solid setup for high grip Astro like we use over here or in Europe. Saying that in the defence of the SRX4, if people took the time to look at let's say the World Championships, Billy was lapping the same or extremely similar lap times as Jorn and if I am not mistaken actually did a time in his final that was 1 or 2 secs either way of Jorn. That tells me the car was good enough.

Jorn is R and D and if you have followed him, he has never turned up at any major event without some proto part on his cars - any of his cars - Durango or anything else. He has one of the best designers as his mechanic so it's natural this is going to be the case. I agree like many that the worlds was not good but that is in the past. Gerd now looks after the European side of things and the SDX4 4wd is a great car already.

One more thing, I don't mind anyone stating their opinions, not at all. We all have them but i do like to state the facts rather than assumptions.

In the UK as you all know I am the distributor and I can only promise the best service you can get, parts always in stock, set up advice and a lot more. From there on, you will have to wash your own bottoms :)

I think serpent should now stick to what is working and clearly working well and develop it without all the messing around the srx4 caused

When is the SDX4 likely to be available please?

Hi Steve/all
The 4wd car is only a few weeks away - look out for the normal advertisements here there and everywhere :)

Is a centre diff a possibility in the new car?

As far as i now yes it will be .
As jorn whas testing it at the euro's