Hello
 

Hello,

Potential born again racer here. I still have the old Turbo Optima Mid and the little plastic trophies stashed away in the loft somewhere under about 20 years of dust but clearly things have moved on since the last time I was a regular at your old Unsworth site.

So among my many questions are:

When do you race now - I recall it used to be every Wednesday evening and Sundays?

Which are the competitive cars nowadays?

I always raced 4wd, is that still the main grouping?

Would any of the old equipment I have be transferable? 112b era stuff.

Is there any call for the old stuff anywhere?

I'm sure your answers will only give me more questions but perhaps you'll see me as you come round to lap me at some point in the future.

Thanks

Hello welcome back, it is very different to how you remember it. Now we run brushless motors and speed controlers your 112b(is that the futaba) will probably not run any of the modern brushed motors. The batteries are now Lithium Polimer (lipo) loads off punch and run time. Radio gear is now 2.4 ghz no crystals needed the radio finds its own signal. As for cars the 4wd class has just had an explosion in the last few years you have loads of choice I run the Team Associated B44 very good car. Bury race in the winter indoor once a month and outdoor every week in summer.

Bring your Turbo Optima and 112b along some time and I'll take a look at at. I'm sure its still usable and I'd rather like one again so might buy it off you! As for transferable - well I don't think the 112b can handle modern motors, (IIRC it struggled with 19t's back in the day) and your batterys are never going to cut it, but I guess if your radio gear is OK thats still usable.

4wd is the most common class at Bury (though oddly 2wd is more popular down the round at Southport!). The Associated B44 is a good place to start - About £235 and race ready from the box.
A brushless motor system starts around £100, this Exceed system is seriously nippy, probably a bit much to start with.
The B44 takes saddle pack batteries, and you'll be wanting modern Lipos. These Intellects from Demon are a little large but will last you a whole days racing with a little topping up. They'll need a suitable Lipo compatible charger - this one is mains and 12V so work indoors and out.

Of course you could save a lot of money up front and get one of these : A Kyosho Lazer Brushless which sorts out the chassis, motor, esc and radio. Its needs a lot of upgrades to reach full race spec, but is good enough to start with. Likewise the brushless system is basic but will do for now. And since the car takes stick lipos not saddles you can get this Trakpower pack. And you could save on the charger with one of these.

Hope that helps!

sounds like an advert for Roundabout Toys & JE Spares
 

Not just satisfied with links to local modelshops you must have been working nights Si

what gear to buy
 

a few of us bury lads will be going to the roundabout track in denton on monday 11th,if you can pop along to that with your old gear,(some of it might still be useable) ,i started back this year using my old tekin speedo it still worked ok.i still use 15+ year old transmitters for my cars.also we can advise you on what to spend your money on.we race at goshen sports centre in bury now through the summer

Or not working until the 4th, no racing until the 11th and bored senseless......

Thanks guys, the more I see the more it's clear I need pretty much everything! I'll get myself down to one of your meetings in January although I probably wont bring the old kit - it'll be too embarrassing!)

I was always pretty envious of the lads with cats and procats, are they still a good piece of kit?

I'm reading about these new fangled brushless motors and ESC's. Am I right in thinking once you have your ESC it will run a variety of motors or do you need one for each motor?

The old amex card is getting a bit nervous already! Otley modelshop used to be my favourite place for new stuff but it's a bit far away, where would you recommend locally (I'm in Rochdale).

Thanks again

Well I linked you Roundabout in Ashton under Lyne and JE Spares in Middleton. They are about the best locally for 10ths.

I wouldn't worry about the old kit being embarrassing, I'm still running a RC10T.....

Old kit
 

Like si said don't worry about the old kit pal.si has a couple of models that noah must have had on the ark !!!!

Right I have it all back at home again, its bringing back some memories, I just found my old membership card from the club - joined Feb '89!

After a dodgy start I have scavenged some batteries from round the house and once the connections were cleaned the tranny looks like it is still working.

I have put what was my 'best' battery back in the day onto the homemade charger and attached it to my motor to see what it'll do... Better just go and check it's not on fire.

Anyhow this is where I'm at so far cos everyone like pictures...

Ok well:

1) I want that car!

2) I have an instruction manual for that car I think (courtesy of Rob M)

3) Rob can win our A final using a very similar Futaba Attack radio, so that at least can be kept......

Yeah I have the original instructions and the box here too.

Batteries are dead, wont take a charge.

So to get going am I right in thinking the following are needed:

New batteries - will lipo fit??
New motor and ESC system
Is the receiver the same as the ESC?

Not surprised the batteries are dead - they weren't designed for long term storage!

Yours is the earlier short wheelbase Mid right? Using stick packs held in by tie wrap type mountings? If so then a stick type lipo should fit, but please note that unlike the old nicads you can't convert stick lipos to saddle ones, so if you got a stick lipo for the mid, then bought a B44 you couldn't use it.
Besides lipos are total overkill for that car - these cost just over a tenner and would get the old girl going. Besides as lipos must not be discharged you should really only use them with a speed controller with a lipo cutoff - which the 112b doesn't have!

If you want to run the Mid before buying a new car I'd suggest the following:
This esc and this motor. The motor is fast but not insanely powerful - some brushless systems would destroy the drivetrain on a mid in minutes. The speed controller is cheap but decent, and can handle hotter motors when you have a chassis that can cope. One of the club (Mark) uses this setup and his car is rapid enough. I'm using the motor (with a lesser esc) in my RC10T precisely because it doesn't wreck the drivetrain.
The esc is lipo compatible.

Esc = Speed controller.

Personally i would pop down to the Bury indoors event or Southport sometime and have a chat with some of the lads!

I do like the old RC`s but i really wouldn`t bother as Si demonstrates how poor these perform on a regular basis :p

Come down have a chat then invest in either an RTR or buy a race spec buggy, as in my opinion you will be throwing money away,the old buggys etc really aren`t very competitive anymore (although Woody would probably disagree) plus you will probably break it and would find it hard to sauce the parts, let it live the rest of its days as a shelf queen :thumbsup:

Hope to see you soon over a Bury

Andy

I think you'll find its my driving not my cars. In fact, I seem to do better the older my car is - my D4 isn't much older than your Dugra but I'm faster with a 20 year old RC10!

rc10
 

yes i agree si i watched your truck go round and id say it was every bit as good as the new rc10s if not better

I think I agree with you. It's already had a fair few years on the track and is probably ready to be retired. I'll pick up a battery though, so I can have a play and decide if I want to re-invest in some new stuff.

Assuming I get back into it, I'll need lots of advice on whats good and what should be avoided.

I'm pretty sure I'd like a Cat unless someone tells me they are now kack?

Does the trakpower lipo go with this? Which charger would you go for?

Any advice on suitable servo, receiver, speed controller and motor would be appreciated - I'd like to reuse my old 27mhz tranny unless there is a performance advantage of getting newer stuff?

The Cat SX is a good car. Go for the cheaper S1 version as its supposed to be easier to drive. Beauty of the Cat is it takes stick lipos so could be used in the Mid too.

Got a battery, put the right connectors onto it and.... nothing!

Battery took a charge off my old charger. Motor seems ok as touching the battery connectors onto it gets the wheels spinning.

So its either the tranny or the receiver that is dead.

New radio time then. The Ansmann 2.4ghz radio is pretty decent for £66. 2.4ghz means no more crystals needed, its computerised with a 10 model memory and in theory can't get interference.

Right this is what I'm thinking as a starting point. Opinions please...

B44
Exceed Pro 6.5T Brushless Combo
bluebird bms631mg servo
Lipo saddles and charger to suit

Looks like a good starting point.
Johnny has that Exceed system and it seems to be excellent value for money (plus hasn't exploded like a Losi system yet).
The B44 is a very popular chassis (though curiously only Rob uses one at Bury, loads at Southport).
I'm not a fan of Bluebird servos myself (the only one I've had the case cracked) but others use them without problems. Personally I'd get a Savox.

For Lipos Rob and I both use these monster sized saddle lipos. At 6000mAh they will do you a whole days racing with some topping up.

bits
 

si is pretty spot on. only started racing in summer but been learning fast as i can. ( thanks every one) losi system was ok but do have little niggles until set up right. however the exceed seems a little less fancy and not as user friendly but seems a better system to me. ( faster ,smoother, less messing once set up) i have been running track power 6000 saddles for 6 months. they take an absolute hammering big power and discharge fast charging and reliable. but pricey. my bmax that i got second hand just gets better race by race and tyson does nice screw packs for em. i been breaking shock towers and wishbones occasionally but deserved it with some massive crashes that would have wrecked any other car completly. love it. i use acoms 2.4 g radio seems popular and seems good to me no problems so far.
if you fancy trucks ,the stinger bl comes with 2.4g radio, unsensored brushless system ( pretty fast wi new pinion ) and the car itself for £140 from ross mod. and while it is not the most advanced car it is made from unbreakable rubber with good gear box and drive system and it has not broken yet in four months of racing. and i have found some associated parts fit it to . just got a b4 to which seems nice. hope this is useful. see ya on the track................:thumbsup:

Very good set up don't know about the brushless system but b44 very good car I drove my mates and liked it . Servo is spot one I upgraded from a£26 blubird to a savox £60 and can't tell the difference last savox I buy. As for lipos don't be fooled 3700 mah is just as good as 5000 or 6000 mah packs the race lasts 6 minutes so why would you want a battery to last 15 mins save the money .

Buds

The advantage of the 6000mAh is that I only bother charging between the heats and the final. I can run the whole rest of the meeting without even charging up. Damned handy when running 2 classes with one charger!
Also they are monsterously punchy (25C on a 6000 is like 40C on 3700's) and help balance the car better as they don't need ballast.

Cheers guys, its all food for thought on the batteries.

I'm hoping to pick up the car, motor and servo tomorrow, I have the new tranny ordered already which should arrive next week.

I'll be down later in the month to put some faces to names and suss out what other kit I need for a raceday. Should give me time to get it all put together and have a look at how you guys prepare your cars to race on carpet.

Apparently some of the guys are going down to Goshen at 12 today (Sat) for a mess about if you want to come have a look. Possibly going to go along myself to test my Soda truck.....

Yeah I'll try to get down to say hello, see you there.

si its snowing! you have no problem blowing things up or trashing your car when its dry! :p i was thinking of going sundy 11am-1pm for a bash about.

I might have a drive down at dinner watch si and mark blow their motors should be fun!!

Buds

So what your saying is the " c rating" is dependent on the " mah". Well I thought it was the speed it discharges it self and the mah is the amount of power the cells can hold. But seeing as your a chemistry teacher who where's specs I'll have to take your word for it

buds

Well you are right, it is the discharge rate, but in this case C stands for capacity. A 20C pack can discharge 20 times its capacity in 1 hour (more simply completely discharge itself in 1/20th of an hour or 3 minutes). That means however that the current it delivers depends on the mAh of the pack too.
A 20C 3000mAh pack can deliver 3A for 3mins (effective rate 60A)
A 20C 6000mAh pack can deliver 6A for those same 3mins ie 120A.

A 3000mAh 40C pack could discharge itself in 1/40th of an hour or 1.5mins. That too would allow an effective current of 120A

These are continuous discharge figures, and since as you pointed out a race is only 6mins long (and you don't use the whole pack in a race) it shouldn't really matter. However, the burst discharge rate is closely related to the continuous discharge rate - normally around double. Since 4wd cars with 5.5-6.5t motors can pull up to 200A under hard acceleration the 20C 3000mAh pack can only put 120A and is not going to accelerate that well. The 20 6000 pack can manage up to 240A and is going to shoot off the line!

Think power is Amps, hence C rating x mah = Amps

Amps = more poke, and just not in bursts, still sound like big batteries to fit into a car.

Knew I needent have bothered........................

Seems to make sense and whilst I'm sure it'll be a bit too much for me to start with I'm going to need it pretty soon.

So whats happening with the snow, is anyone going down today?

Well i'll be turning up with all my kit and take it from there

Might see you down ill bet there from 12ish..might even bring my mini cooker and some soup lol....

It seems that yes, some of us are going.

Oh dear!

Sorted, I'll bring the mid and spade too then.

On order!
 

Car - ordered
Motor - ordered
Battery - ordered
Charger - ordered
Servo - out of stock
Tranny - out of stock.

Should give me plenty to be going on with til the last few bits arrive. You'll maybe see me down at the outside track having a practice in a couple or three weeks :thumbsup:

What did you go for the end, kit wise??
There are loads of indoors track you can go to before u unleash the car,were all off to roundabout club meet monday at denton have a look on club sites for directions should be a good turnout weather permitting!!!
Just finished a 14hr killer ov a day in the snow bouncing off kerbs in my lorry, not fun at all:thumbdown:

You'll have to wait and see! Yeah I don't envy you in the snow, my car was a bit of a handful today - I should have gone for the 4wd version. How do you get away with 14hrs on your tacho?