How Do You Drive Your 4wd Buggy ???

[Steven Forster]

Just looking at peoples driving styles to give me tips/ideas on how to improve my driving !!!

Ive only been racing since april and starting to get better at getting around the track more consistently without having too many accidents.

As im still trying to learn and understand all the different setup options i thought i would see if i could learn to drive better using this setup below for polished wood floor/carpet setup first.

http://www.petitrc.com/setup/associa...219/index.html

Im slowly making my way up around the middle of the pack and find that im a few seconds a lap slower than the better faster drivers which is normaly 2-3 laps faster and at one point i even finished 3rd and 5 laps down from 1st place

Im running a B44 with a Losi ESC/6.5t combo, (epa turned down on throttle and running some drag brake), gearing 21/84 ? Ansmann W3 radio, KO 2174 servo and Intellect 5400 60C saddles..........???

Any tips, hints or ideas welcome

cheers

[sosidge]

In terms of setup, it is more important to have the car built well than to have a specific setup on it, and it is very important to have good tyres.

Built well means everything that should move does so freely under its own weight, and everything that shouldn't move doesn't. It also means a car that runs in a straight line; gives full throttle, neutral and full brake when you need it to; and turns left and right in equal amounts (either full lock or however much lock you need to get round the track).

Kit setup (or a trusted setup) should not be far off, and when you feel it is time to make adjustments, do them one at a time based on what YOU need from the car. Although if you are a relatively new driver you are better off learing to drive it without crashing for 5 minutes, assuming the car has no serious handling vices. Ask an experienced driver to try the car out to check it is running well.

Driving is about running a good line - tight around the corner apexes, straight over the obstacles. Slow down early and concentrate on getting into the corner at the right speed and from the right position on the track, everything else will follow. There is a lot more time in having a slow car on a good line than having a fast car on the wrong line.

Practice, and think about what you are practising.

[ryanlownie]

As a bit of a newbie to electric and the smoothness required to be faster with it my method is to drive the smoothest curves around the track possible.

I try to avoid slamming on and tight pivoting around corners (unless defensive/offensive driving) but keep speed up instead, it's slower than the guys up in the A final but it keeps me consistent with little to no crashes.

After a bit of time doing that I can add a bit of aggression and improve lap times.

In a nutshell, you must first go slower to go faster.

[Cardnim]

My big problem is steering.
Either I steer too much or too little in a corner, but resulting in the same thing - Im making 4 or 5 corrections throughout a corner to try to stay on line rather than a smooth curve.

Im getting better definately, but this is still my big issue.

To improve, Im racing as much as I can, but also practising drills on a patch of waste ground near my work as often as I can.
I set up a course, then drive round it as slow as I need to to get the car steering with only 2 actions (i.e. initial turn in, then straighten up coming out of the croner)
Initially, this had to be damn slow (surprisingly so) but now that Im getting the hang of it, its starting to feel right in my head (if that makes sense)

Here's me driving on a Dirt track.
Car = Cat SX2 (the black and white one)
As you can see, the two things that kept failing me was going too fast over the jumps, and steering through the turns.
Clicky for video

[Cardnim]

Just looking at your setup - one thing that really helped me to calm it all down (and ironically be faster) was a more experienced driver who told me to reduce both my drag brake, and normal brake.
My brake is now at 50%.
This way, I know I have to be calm, as I cant rely on the brakes to slow me for corners.
This definately helped me be calmer and less aggressive.
Hope it helps

[Andyp]

Loads of good advice here Steve the thing i noticed is your drag brake! as i know you run on mainly slippy floor i have it in my head that the drag brake would make it very unpredictable everytime you let off the power?

im sure people do but i never use drag brake if they are harsh i just turn my them down instead

[kayce]

Originally Posted by dexter24

Just looking at peoples driving styles to give me tips/ideas on how to improve my driving !!!

Ive only been racing since april and starting to get better at getting around the track more consistently without having too many accidents.

I'm not going to get into a bunch of back-&-forth about set-ups - because it's my opinion that every new guy is way too obsessed with the term, while the reality is that (because of differences in driving style) odds are my set-up won't work for you just like someone else's set-up won't work for me - as realistically, it's one of those things you learn over time relative to your own personal preferences...

So I'm just going to cover general driver tips ~
1) SLOW DOWN - it seems that every new guy equates going fast to slapping in a fast motor, but it usually only equates to them hitting harder when they do wreck. I've always used the simple equation, fast motors are for big tracks and slow motors are for small tracks. Even if it means sacrificing a little on straightaway speed, a slower motor choice is easier to drive cleanly on the infield sections where corner speed means more than raw speed. So, while 4wd cars require the user to be on the throttle more aggressively than a 2wd (which require more throttle control), it also results in people over-driving them because they've got too much power on tap. That's why I always tell guys, when you can make the A-Final with a "stock" (speed) motor then and only then are you ready to move up to a fast/modified motor.
2) DON'T CRASH SO MUCH - it also seems that new guys are way too obsessed with lap times, when in reality if they would crash less often they'd go faster (total laps). If you look at the truly fast guys you'll notice they can go through a heat or a race without crashing EVER, and that should be your goal. I was told way back in my early days that "crashing and needing marshalled costs you 1/2 a lap, at least" - and thus, if you're wrecking 5-6 times a heat it's not hard to figure out why you're 3 laps behind the fast guys. Lap times don't count unless you're able to do them lap after lap. (also, refer back to Rule#1)
3) BE REALISTIC - lower your expectations, if you do the basic math and if there is a 1-in-10 shot you're going to win and that by the time you do factor in the "fast guys" that leaves you a "mid pack guy" more often than not. Not everyone's got the talent to be one of the "fast guys," and the sooner you wrap your head around the idea that you're not going to win the more fun this hobby will be over the long term - and the more proud you'll be on the rare days that you do manage to eek out a win.
4) BE A MAINTENANCE JUNKY - one of the mistakes I see by many new guys is that they put the car away after each meet and don't even look at it until slapping it on the pit table at the next meet. "Close enough" isn't good enough, if you have any plans on ever being one of the fast guys, and there's no such thing as "too much maintenance." The smoother these cars work, because of being freshly rebuilt, the more consistent they perform on the track, and the more consistent the car is the greater the opportunity for the driver to be consistent (instead of relying on a car that's worse every time they drive it).
5) IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S FOR, DON'T USE IT - I see a lot of guys using settings like "drag brakes" and most often I can't understand why. Drag brakes is primarily (designed for and) used in on-road racing on high traction surfaces, and seldom if ever is it of any use in off-road racing on more slippery surfaces. It's designed to slow a car down every time you get off the gas, when you're charging into corners very fast - but if your car is fishtailing all over the place either because your car is unweighted and not settled because it just landed a jump, or because there's little to no traction available because of the surface, you're just making the car harder to drive.

[pugboy]

Originally Posted by kayce

I'm not going to get into a bunch of back-&-forth about set-ups - because it's my opinion that every new guy is way too obsessed with the term, while the reality is that (because of differences in driving style) odds are my set-up won't work for you just like someone else's set-up won't work for me - as realistically, it's one of those things you learn over time relative to your own personal preferences...

So I'm just going to cover general driver tips ~
1) SLOW DOWN - it seems that every new guy equates going fast to slapping in a fast motor, but it usually only equates to them hitting harder when they do wreck. I've always used the simple equation, fast motors are for big tracks and slow motors are for small tracks. Even if it means sacrificing a little on straightaway speed, a slower motor choice is easier to drive cleanly on the infield sections where corner speed means more than raw speed. So, while 4wd cars require the user to be on the throttle more aggressively than a 2wd (which require more throttle control), it also results in people over-driving them because they've got too much power on tap. That's why I always tell guys, when you can make the A-Final with a "stock" (speed) motor then and only then are you ready to move up to a fast/modified motor.
2) DON'T CRASH SO MUCH - it also seems that new guys are way too obsessed with lap times, when in reality if they would crash less often they'd go faster (total laps). If you look at the truly fast guys you'll notice they can go through a heat or a race without crashing EVER, and that should be your goal. I was told way back in my early days that "crashing and needing marshalled costs you 1/2 a lap, at least" - and thus, if you're wrecking 5-6 times a heat it's not hard to figure out why you're 3 laps behind the fast guys. (also, refer back to Rule#1)
3) BE REALISTIC - lower your expectations, if you do the basic math and if there is a 1-in-10 shot you're going to win and that by the time you do factor in the "fast guys" that leaves you a "mid pack guy" more often than not. Not everyone's got the talent to be one of the "fast guys," and the sooner you wrap your head around the idea that you're not going to win the more fun this hobby will be over the long term - and the more proud you'll be on the rare days that you do manage to eek out a win.
4) BE A MAINTENANCE JUNKY - one of the mistakes I see by many new guys is that they put the car away after each meet and don't even look at it until slapping it on the pit table at the next meet. "Close enough" isn't good enough, if you have any plans on ever being one of the fast guys, and there's no such thing as "too much maintenance." The smoother these cars work, because of being freshly rebuilt, the more consistent they perform on the track, and the more consistent the car is the greater the opportunity for the driver to be consistent (instead of relying on a car that's worse every time they drive it).
5) IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S FOR, DON'T USE IT - I see a lot of guys using settings like "drag brakes" and most often I can't understand why. Drag brakes is primarily (designed for and) used in on-road racing on high traction surfaces, and seldom if ever is it of any use in off-road racing on more slippery surfaces. It's designed to slow a car down every time you get off the gas, when you're charging into corners very fast - but if your car is fishtailing all over the place either because your car is unweighted and not settled because it just landed a jump, or because there's little to no traction available because of the surface, you're just making the car harder to drive.

Not that I'm particularly qualified to comment but I agree with all the above, try and get your average lap as close as possible to your fastest lap, within a second of each other is good, within half a second is excellent. It is possible to win races (at my level anyway) and have the slowest 'best lap' out of every driver in the heat. The problem then becomes fending them off when they are near you.

[h0m3sy]

Drive it like you stole it!

[carter_213]

Id turn the drag brake off straight away,we dont even use it in on road!

[tisher]

going slower even for the top lads works on indoor tracks try running a 7.5t I will guarantee you will do more laps

[Miggers]

Couldn't agree more with kayce's advice.

Maintenance and practice are of paramount importance.
Look after it like your life depends on it and practice your ass off.

Consistency is your goal and don't worry about speed,that will come with consistency.

Bunging in a big grunty motor from the off will cost you big time,and boost your parts supplier's takings no end.

Here's a final thought for you:

BITD,I raced an Optima Mid Custom at club level consistently in the top
classes for two years.
The beautiful thing never broke or let me down once in those two years
not because I was particularly fast,but because I was consistant and kept the car and equipment very well maintained.

Above all though,enjoy your racing and drive your "own" race.

Mark

[Welshy40]

Originally Posted by h0m3sy

Drive it like you stole it!

Oh yeah

[Maddy]

Originally Posted by Welshy40

Oh yeah

Flat out all the time

[discostu]

Originally Posted by kayce

I'm not going to get into a bunch of back-&-forth about set-ups - because it's my opinion that every new guy is way too obsessed with the term, while the reality is that (because of differences in driving style) odds are my set-up won't work for you just like someone else's set-up won't work for me - as realistically, it's one of those things you learn over time relative to your own personal preferences...

So I'm just going to cover general driver tips ~
1) SLOW DOWN - it seems that every new guy equates going fast to slapping in a fast motor, but it usually only equates to them hitting harder when they do wreck. I've always used the simple equation, fast motors are for big tracks and slow motors are for small tracks. Even if it means sacrificing a little on straightaway speed, a slower motor choice is easier to drive cleanly on the infield sections where corner speed means more than raw speed. So, while 4wd cars require the user to be on the throttle more aggressively than a 2wd (which require more throttle control), it also results in people over-driving them because they've got too much power on tap. That's why I always tell guys, when you can make the A-Final with a "stock" (speed) motor then and only then are you ready to move up to a fast/modified motor.
2) DON'T CRASH SO MUCH - it also seems that new guys are way too obsessed with lap times, when in reality if they would crash less often they'd go faster (total laps). If you look at the truly fast guys you'll notice they can go through a heat or a race without crashing EVER, and that should be your goal. I was told way back in my early days that "crashing and needing marshalled costs you 1/2 a lap, at least" - and thus, if you're wrecking 5-6 times a heat it's not hard to figure out why you're 3 laps behind the fast guys. Lap times don't count unless you're able to do them lap after lap. (also, refer back to Rule#1)
3) BE REALISTIC - lower your expectations, if you do the basic math and if there is a 1-in-10 shot you're going to win and that by the time you do factor in the "fast guys" that leaves you a "mid pack guy" more often than not. Not everyone's got the talent to be one of the "fast guys," and the sooner you wrap your head around the idea that you're not going to win the more fun this hobby will be over the long term - and the more proud you'll be on the rare days that you do manage to eek out a win.
4) BE A MAINTENANCE JUNKY - one of the mistakes I see by many new guys is that they put the car away after each meet and don't even look at it until slapping it on the pit table at the next meet. "Close enough" isn't good enough, if you have any plans on ever being one of the fast guys, and there's no such thing as "too much maintenance." The smoother these cars work, because of being freshly rebuilt, the more consistent they perform on the track, and the more consistent the car is the greater the opportunity for the driver to be consistent (instead of relying on a car that's worse every time they drive it).
5) IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S FOR, DON'T USE IT - I see a lot of guys using settings like "drag brakes" and most often I can't understand why. Drag brakes is primarily (designed for and) used in on-road racing on high traction surfaces, and seldom if ever is it of any use in off-road racing on more slippery surfaces. It's designed to slow a car down every time you get off the gas, when you're charging into corners very fast - but if your car is fishtailing all over the place either because your car is unweighted and not settled because it just landed a jump, or because there's little to no traction available because of the surface, you're just making the car harder to drive.

this is a bad example yes agree if you dont know what it does ask and experiment unfortuantly saying what you have said in your example is wrong for starters drag brake wasn't designed for on road drivers it was designed to give a simular feel to a brushed motor setup if you knew anything about on road racing you would realise you use brakes as little as possible and you very rarly get off the gas fully because it unsettles the car and again saying its never used in off road again is wrong especaily in low traction condition it can be used to get the front of the car to bite into the corner off power and generate turn where normaly the front would wash out.

the best advice to give is practice lots experiment and understand what each setting does in your own way what i mean by this if you speak to 10 differnt drivers and ask the same question you will get very simular answers explained in a slightly different which can be confusing.

for example the question could be how do i get more steering in the corner.
the answer could be use a softer front spring which would achive this unless you need more steering into the corner then you would need a stiffer front spring which will make the car sharper and more reactive.

understand your handset aswell end points, steering curves, dual rates

stu

[kayce]

Originally Posted by discostu

for starters drag brake wasn't designed for on road drivers it was designed to give a simular feel to a brushed motor setup if you knew anything about on road racing you would realise you use brakes as little as possible and you very rarly get off the gas fully because it unsettles the car

If you knew anything about on-road racing or brushed motors esc's you'd know we used drag brakes long before anybody ever thought of a brushless motor, and that brakes are used all the time by good drivers. Sorry m8, but you're misinformed.

[discostu]

Originally Posted by kayce

If you knew anything about on-road racing or brushed motors esc's you'd know we used drag brakes long before anybody ever thought of a brushless motor, and that brakes are used all the time by good drivers. Sorry m8, but you're misinformed.

im terribly sorry for no nothing about tc racing maybe i must have been wrong after winning 4 carpet wars championships 2 stcc cahmpionships and making 14 natinal A finals where the lowest result i had was 8th the best was 2nd

and yes the function of drag brake was there but a good tc driver would not have the need to use it for some reason auto roll was prefered to hold corner speed.

unfortuantly not misinformed personel experience

Stu Rand

[Timee80]

Originally Posted by discostu

im terribly sorry for no nothing about tc racing maybe i must have been wrong after winning 4 carpet wars championships 2 stcc cahmpionships and making 14 natinal A finals where the lowest result i had was 8th the best was 2nd

and yes the function of drag brake was there but a good tc driver would not have the need to use it for some reason auto roll was prefered to hold corner speed.

unfortuantly not misinformed personel experience

Stu Rand

Thats you told

[kayce]

Originally Posted by discostu

im terribly sorry for no nothing about tc racing maybe i must have been wrong after winning 4 carpet wars championships 2 stcc cahmpionships and making 14 natinal A finals where the lowest result i had was 8th the best was 2nd

and yes the function of drag brake was there but a good tc driver would not have the need to use it for some reason auto roll was prefered to hold corner speed.

unfortuantly not misinformed personel experience

Stu Rand

another legend in his own mind

Do everyone a favor and get back on topic, and/or just let it go.

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by kayce

If you knew anything about on-road racing or brushed motors esc's you'd know we used drag brakes long before anybody ever thought of a brushless motor, and that brakes are used all the time by good drivers. Sorry m8, but you're misinformed.

have to say when i used to run tc when it first apeared as wide tc then scale tc, i never ran drag brakes as the motor created its own drag and slowed you too much, i just relied on my own skill to brake in brushless motors drag brakes is used to replicate the brushed effect, and it can be used to help the car turn in beter dependent on track and driver style