FS2 SP on the way?

[Skye]

I see MK Racing are taking pre orders for these on their website now....

Slightly off topic I know so I apologise, but is it possible for a car to just not suit a person?

The reason I ask is this... About two months ago I got into the sport and went out and bought a RB5 SP2 and also a B44.1. Both were brand new and it was a toss of a coin as to which one I started with.

The coin fell down on the side of the B44.1 so I have been trying to race this for the last couple of months and just cannot get it to feel right. A mixture of understeer and grip roll has got me driving the car on tenterhooks just trying to keep it on all 4 wheels but I am sooo slow through the infield as a result it frustrates the hell out of me.

So last week I wheeled out the RB5. Bearing in mind this has been neglected somewhat while I focused on the 4wd so it has had no set up tweaks and it is literally as per kit build instructions throughout. I didnt race the RB5, just gave it a bit of track time practicing with it but it instantly felt quicker. Yes there was still some grip roll, but they were brand new tires so I expected this. I was able to choose a line and drive it though, whereas with the B44 it is all about getting around the corner, the line taken is just random and different every time.

So.... my question is, can a car just not suit somone for no good reason? I am thinking of getting a driver or two from the 4wd A final to take my B44 round and see what they think. If they drive it ok then I know the issue is with my harmony with the car, not the car itself.

Having driven the RB5 better though, then I also know that it is not simply me being a hopeless driver either so I need to establish whether Im not suited to 4wd in general, or more specifically the B44.1

If it turns out to be the latter, then having been chuffed with the 2wd performance in testing then the FS2 will be top of my list for an alternative 4wd.....

[/tobys]

I ran a B44 last season and just couldn't get on with it. Since switching to the FS2, the difference is night and day. For me, it jumps, corners and take the bumps much better.

That's not to say the B44.1 isn't fast - clearly, in the right hands it is very, very fast.

The FS2 is not cheap though (either to buy or in spares) and I do think it is a bit fragile - shock towers especially.

HTH

[Skye]

Originally Posted by /tobys

I ran a B44 last season and just couldn't get on with it. Since switching to the FS2, the difference is night and day. For me, it jumps, corners and take the bumps much better.

That's not to say the B44.1 isn't fast - clearly, in the right hands it is very, very fast.

The FS2 is not cheap though (either to buy or in spares) and I do think it is a bit fragile - shock towers especially.

HTH

It does help thanks, at least I know Im not the only one struggling with a B44.1

I have also noticed the cost of the Kyosho parts compared to the AE as well, thats not so good....

At the end of the day though, I want to race and be competitive. I want a shaft driven 4wd that is fast and strong. The B44.1 is clearly very strong, I have given it some serious abuse and it keeps getting put back on the track and driving away unscathed. But I am struggling with the performance element.

Just a shame that the Kyosho kits are nearly £400 and the spares cost more too..... If it means I can be more competitive though....

I havent given up on the B44.1 just yet though, I will see what the verdict of the other drivers are once I have got them to test it for me.

[RogerM]

The cost of spares is a little higher but it's mainly an exchange rate issue (as it is with Yokomo and Tamiya too).

The Kyosho parts are very high quality and wear rates are very low compared to most (3 years out of a rear diff crown wheel & pinion seems damn good to me!).

There are a few things you can do to make the car more robust, not that its weak to start with. Mainly it's just changing out a few screws here and there for longer ones or applying a bit of experience to the build (just ask, happy to help).
Due to the low wear you'll hardly have to buy any spares to keep it in tip-top condition.

The front towers are a little weak (not Losi XX4 weak though) but easy and fast to change along with being supplied individually rather than in packs with other parts. Not too badly priced either.

Only major recomendation would be to build the car with ceramic diff balls from day one as the supplied ones are a little softer than some other manufactures and do wear because of it (damaging the diff plates if left too long between rebuilds). Put the ceramics in and you'll get 3-4 months between regreasing!

I am still 100% convinced that it's the best 4wd on the market in terms of being able to get it to handle however you prefer and also reliability.

[Paul Field]

Skye

I agree totally with Roger.
I ran a Durango throughout the winter in the Ardent winter series and really struggled to get a good result. I saw Nic Caro's FS2 and Ellis Staffords FS2 at the BWOC and they looked excellent. I switched to the FS2 for the last meeting at Ardent and with it built as kit i put it straight into the A Final. Now the Durango is obviously a great car but it just did not suit me. I have raced the Kyosho for a summer season now and despite some large crashes i have not broken anything (touch wood). I have fitted longer bolts as suggested by Roger and turned the bolts around on the top shock mountings. I think this helps a great deal.
The Diffs when fitted with ceramic balls are awesome and have not needed any maintenance for an entire season and are still extremely smooth. The kyosho big bore shock springs are very expensive but Losi 22 springs fit and they are very cheap.
The other good things are that rear toe in, anti squat, front kick up caster and are extremely adjustable and it all comes in the kit. Unlike other makes where you have to buy upgrade parts.
I can't help with the B44 as i have never driven one.

If you want any help just ask.

[Ted Maul]

Have seen it posted and I have to say i think it looks excellent. My std ZX5 lives on, though it looks like my 6yo is in the process of adopting it, albeit with the EPA turned down a bit....

I'm tempted to treat myself to a new car, but am a bit concerned about getting spares. Seems DMS have stopped stocking Kyosho gear and they have always been reliable and helpful. Other sites don't even seem to have the basics stocked, W5028 spare wheels for instance ( I waited 3 weeks to get 2 sets for my old Lazer)

Always liked Kyosho gear since my original Turbo Scorpion, the Optima, Optima Pro, Mid etc (when I retired ) but if both me and my son start racing, i wont have time or funds to play hunt the spares, and heresy though it sounds, it might be less agg to by a couple of B4.1s.... and sadly, on the cost front again, I can get a 4.1rtr for him and a 4.1FT for me for about the same price as an FS2.

Is the market in the UK too small for Kyosho as compared to Associated, they don't seem to make much of a play (not fair to compare to Schumi being UK based company)

[Darren Boyle]

Originally Posted by Ted Maul

I'm tempted to treat myself to a new car, but am a bit concerned about getting spares. Seems DMS have stopped stocking Kyosho gear and they have always been reliable and helpful. Other sites don't even seem to have the basics stocked, W5028 spare wheels for instance ( I waited 3 weeks to get 2 sets for my old Lazer)

Is the market in the UK too small for Kyosho as compared to Associated, they don't seem to make much of a play (not fair to compare to Schumi being UK based company)

Thanks for the kind words about us and our service. At the end of the day, it juts simply was not working out with us and Kyosho here in the UK, there were several issues, but these are best to be left private between us and their UK office.

You can take nothing away from Kyosho, they have been a world leader for as long as we can all remember and drivers like Tebo prove their cars worth in all scales on an almost weekly basis at events everywhere, even Ellis showed at the start of the year what the FS2 "can" do on our own UK tracks.

The downside though is the cost, nothing coming out of Japan is cheap right now, even more so recently with prices dearer than ever and Kyosho has suffered from some rather steep rises over the last 12 months or so, "maybe" not helped by the fact it all comes through France on its way here too, but if you couple the Kyosho quality with the prices from Japan, it has made things tough... Also to add, that since the Tsunami and earthquake early this year that some parts have not been as free flowing as you would normally see or expect...

So simply put it may be the higher prices on kits/spares or availability or maybe even something else altogether why you are not finding so many stores stocking Kyosho as opposed to the likes of AE, having said that there are several good shops out there that do stock it, you juts have to look around a little. I am sure I read somwhere that Kev at Inside Line will be carrying some Kyosho soon in his online/trackside shop too, so theres another option for you all shortly....

[spenner]

As Darren pointed out Kev @ www.insidelineracing.co.uk will be stocking spares for both the SP2 and FS2, this should be from next week!!

[mikeyscott]

Originally Posted by spenner

As Darren pointed out Kev @ www.insidelineracing.co.uk will be stocking spares for both the SP2 and FS2, this should be from next week!!

Including Orion motors/LIPO/ESCs/Servos etc?

[Skye]

Touching on Darrens points above, the cost of Kyosho kits and spares in relation to the other manufacturers was part of the reason why I didnt get the FS2 in the first place.

I bought the RB5 first on the advice of my LHS but then when it came to 4wd a few weeks later I was influenced by the cost and availability of the AE kit/parts over Kyosho.

Now I know the B44.1 is a great car, looking at the results from all around the world tells us that, but at the moment it isnt working for me. So I am going to get some better drivers to try it and if its dialled for them then I think I will look to cut my losses. I am a beginner so I dont expect to drive as fast as others, but when I was instantly faster with my RB5 with no prior practice or set up then it tells me something is not right with me and the B44.

Hopefully, the people I get to test it will have some feedback that the car is set up wrong and be able to help me out as that will be the cheapest option by a long way.

Failing that though then I will be looking for an alternative 4wd and with my preference for shaft driven then my options are limited somewhat. Add to that the fact that first impressions of the RB5 on the track tell me that we are going to get along just fine together and it all sways in favour of the new FS2 with big bores...

Not just to save the £400 needed for the kit.....

[mikeyscott]

Personally I wouldn't class the FS2 as excessivly expensive. "If" I was on the market for a shaft based car then I'd probably look at it more.

Cat SX3 once you've added the bits you NEED it's heading to £400+
Predator X11 - last time I looked circa £400+
Durango DEX410 - Before the current deals were floating around circa £400+
Tamiya TRF511/502 close to £400 when I last looked.
Yokomo B-MAX4 thing - expensive again - don't know how much.

B44.1 is good value, no denying that. The common thing from the list above are they either come from Japan or UK. Both are expensive countries.

PS before I get jumped on, this is purely MY observations.

[Ted Maul]

Originally Posted by DMS Racing

Thanks for the kind words about us and our service. At the end of the day, it juts simply was not working out with us and Kyosho here in the UK, there were several issues, but these are best to be left private between us and their UK office.

You can take nothing away from Kyosho, they have been a world leader for as long as we can all remember and drivers like Tebo prove their cars worth in all scales on an almost weekly basis at events everywhere, even Ellis showed at the start of the year what the FS2 "can" do on our own UK tracks.

The downside though is the cost, nothing coming out of Japan is cheap right now, even more so recently with prices dearer than ever and Kyosho has suffered from some rather steep rises over the last 12 months or so, "maybe" not helped by the fact it all comes through France on its way here too, but if you couple the Kyosho quality with the prices from Japan, it has made things tough... Also to add, that since the Tsunami and earthquake early this year that some parts have not been as free flowing as you would normally see or expect...

So simply put it may be the higher prices on kits/spares or availability or maybe even something else altogether why you are not finding so many stores stocking Kyosho as opposed to the likes of AE, having said that there are several good shops out there that do stock it, you juts have to look around a little. I am sure I read somwhere that Kev at Inside Line will be carrying some Kyosho soon in his online/trackside shop too, so theres another option for you all shortly....

You're welcome (about the kind words) it was you that sourced a shock rebuild kit and the wheels!

Commercially, I understand - my day job involves electricals on a somewhat larger scale (32mW data centres!) and there have been issues surrounding cost and availability coming from japan, mainly components rather than finished items as lead times for fully fledged systems are so long, most have coped with Tsunami impact. My concern is that the presence wasn't strong, availability and support weak long before the economy got Browned and the Tsunami hit.

In real terms, in the next year or so, I hope and pray, my son and I will do a bit of racing. He is 6, I am nearly 40 but have not raced for 25 years. we will crash, we will break stuff. Lots of it. It will take some family negotation for us to spend lots of sundays just doing our own thing, if we start shedding money and time keeping the cars running, Mrs Maul may be even less tolerant of our hobby.

Bottom line is it has to be cheap and simple to run and repair. The ZX5 is fine as I have pretty much got a 2nd car in spares and if he drives it into the ground learning then fine, but I need some long term options and for the hobbyist, as oppsoed to the season racer, i'm not sure Kyosho is the right brand, sad though it is to say.

[Skye]

Originally Posted by mikeyscott

Personally I wouldn't class the FS2 as excessivly expensive. "If" I was on the market for a shaft based car then I'd probably look at it more.

Cat SX3 once you've added the bits you NEED it's heading to £400+
Predator X11 - last time I looked circa £400+
Durango DEX410 - Before the current deals were floating around circa £400+
Tamiya TRF511/502 close to £400 when I last looked.
Yokomo B-MAX4 thing - expensive again - don't know how much.

B44.1 is good value, no denying that. The common thing from the list above are they either come from Japan or UK. Both are expensive countries.

PS before I get jumped on, this is purely MY observations.

When you put it like that I guess you have a point. My perception was slightly skewed as when I was looking originally it was purely a FS2 Vs B44.1 and on those grounds then the FS2 was expensive.

I am slightly surprised as I havent seen any deals offering the current FS2 on the cheap in the way Durango did to shift the old stock. The big bore FS2 is being quoted at only approx £30 more than the current model. If there were some sub £300 deals on the current model then I could have been persuaded to take mr credit card on a shopping trip this weekend!

[Darren Boyle]

Originally Posted by Skye

When you put it like that I guess you have a point. My perception was slightly skewed as when I was looking originally it was purely a FS2 Vs B44.1 and on those grounds then the FS2 was expensive.

I am slightly surprised as I havent seen any deals offering the current FS2 on the cheap in the way Durango did to shift the old stock. The big bore FS2 is being quoted at only approx £30 more than the current model. If there were some sub £300 deals on the current model then I could have been persuaded to take mr credit card on a shopping trip this weekend!

Keep your eye on ebay, there may be some cheap ones on there soon

The only point above is that "no-one" has allowed for any add ons for the FS2 in the pricing, the FS2 is not imune to essential add-ons too, just depends who you speak to as to which ones you use I guess.....

[Ted Maul]

I should have added, I had a Kyosho Pegasus before the Turbo Scorpion - believe me, i'm not Kyosho bashing here, I have been a loyal customer for a long time, even if I did have a break from the sport!

[InsideLineModels]

Originally Posted by mikeyscott

Including Orion motors/LIPO/ESCs/Servos etc?

To start with we'll be stocking a comprehensive range of spares for both buggies. In the longer term we plan to stock Orion products amongst others but first priority will be the car spares.

I am currently in the middle of loading items to the shop and working out the initial order quantity, which is a most enjoyable I have to say.....

I hope to have stock in next week if things go to plan.

Kev

[RudeTony]

Good to hear you're stocking Kyosho Kev and not so good to hear Darren not.

Wherever you all buy from and whatever you decide you want to run in the 4wd class just remember that the Kyosho FS2 can compete straight out of the box with no NEEDED extras and I am sure it is in the £300 odd rather than the £400 bracket.
The only thing extra I recommend is diff balls, after that my car as is Ellis car is more or less standard - Darren does some nice trick carbon for it (not sure if he still does that ) but that is just a pimp up option.......did me just fine this year - F1 at Nationals and 2nd in my region says to me the car is pretty good or I am just amazine (NOT!)
LOL

[MK Racing]

Tony,

The new SP version comes with the tungsten ball in the kit

Marc

[adam_u]

I made a comeback to the sport earlier this year and opted for the ZX-5 SP2 - there have been some 'interesting' driving moments from me so far as I find my feet again and this is what I have broken over the course of the year:

1 x front shock tower - trying to jump the big double at Cov and generally arsing around whilst doing it - definitely down to me that one -

1 x rear inboard camber link plate after landing on that corner's one wheel sideways over a jump.

and erm... that's it! I decided to rebuild the diffs after about 6 meetings and several long test sessions and swapped out the balls for ceramics in the process but that's it.

Mine is also built with the longer gearbox bolts (about 22mm M3 socket head cap screws - only couple of quid even at ebay prices), and the top shock mount bolts reversed which also speeds up changing the mounting positions so win/win really...

I was really very impressed by the quality of the kit during the build process, you know it's a quality product.

I initially thought it was quite a lot of outlay to begin with - maybe because last time I raced my dad bought me all the gear(!), but just because there are cheaper options out there it doesn't really make the Lazer 'expensive' - what's the B44 - £300? and the current FS2 is just under 350 at JE - about 3 full sets of tires difference in price which you'd go through without much of a second thought...

You're in the same boat as myself really Skye - having to spend out on everything at once (I haven't got around to getting a 2WD myself yet) is a bit eye watering and I'd be reluctant to buy a new kit so soon too, but if it's going to make the difference as to how much you enjoy the hobby maybe it's worth it? I'd wait and get the BB's in the kit though tbh or you'll find yourself itching to buy them anyway just like me

[Skye]

When I bought the B44 it was £280 and the FS2 was about £380 so it was £100 different which is a fair bit when you think that the difference was enough to buy the motor and servo.

It might yet turn out to be a false economy though as if I do make the change then I'm obviously going to lose money on the sale of the B44.1, especially as I have spent several hundred pounds on wheels, tires, wishbones, shock towers, shock rebuild kits, spring sets etc. None of which will be transferable to the FS2....

As you say though, if I do make the change then I will wait for the big bore version in October. That's no so bad though as it gives the B44 another 6 weeks to prove we can get along and work well together. Otherwise she'll be on here for sale to fund the purchase of the FS2.