BRCA Insurance

[bodgit]

So you cant race without Brca insurance but when you get it your not covered by it??? And if you hit anybody on the track the insurance you payed for wont pay them anything or you if your hit by them. So why have you payed for it in the first place and where and what does the money go for?? to be told what tyres you can use. Im confused.

[peetbee]

Originally Posted by bodgit

So you cant race without Brca insurance but when you get it your not covered by it??? And if you hit anybody on the track the insurance you payed for wont pay them anything or you if your hit by them. So why have you payed for it in the first place and where and what does the money go for?? to be told what tyres you can use. Im confused.

Re-read Jim Spencer's posts - the BRCA insurance is public liability not personal accident cover.

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by Jim Spencer

Lastly to repeat myself..

NOTHING has changed - the cover you have now is basically what you had 25 years ago, just with a few improvements added over the years.

I think the difference is that 25 years ago we all read the handbook and understood what public liability insurance is. Today, based on this thread it looks like people have just seen the word 'insurance' and jumped to the conclusion that it protects them for everything.

After all, there are still some beginners who assume, like 1:1 car insurance, it covers them for damage when they break their car while racing.

Also 25 years ago for most cases if we stood on the track and a car ran into us and broke our ankle we would blame ourselves for stepping out when it wasn't clear. We had the common sense to know that if we didn't want to get injured we didn't step out on the track without looking first, or to stand at a marshalling point where there was a chance you could get injured. Now it appears that because they have heard the word 'insurance' used in connection with their BRCA membership people have assumed if they get injured for any reason then the BRCA will pay out for any expenses or loss of earnings.

For those moaning about not covering loss of earnings when injured, as has been pointed out several times in this thread being injured when racing is no different to injuring yourself at home. If you can't afford to lose income due to a broken ankle while marshalling, then you also can't afford to lose income due to a broken ankle caused by falling off a step ladder at home, or if you stepped out in front of a 1:1 car. If you are employed your company sick pay should already cover you, if not then you should have already taken the responsibility of sorting out your own personal accident insurance anyway.

BTW in my case, although I would advise taking it out anyway, you do not need BRCA membership to race at my club as I have to pay for a proportion of the halls public liability insurance on top the rent. This has more cover than the BRCA insurance, but even with sharing the insurance with the likes of slimming and dog training clubs it still costs quite a bit more than BRCA affiliation.

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by bodgit

So you cant race without Brca insurance but when you get it your not covered by it??? And if you hit anybody on the track the insurance you payed for wont pay them anything or you if your hit by them. So why have you payed for it in the first place and where and what does the money go for?? to be told what tyres you can use. Im confused.

It's to cover you if you have an actual accident that isn't your responsibility, for example say something went wrong and your car flew off the track and into the pits, denting a car someone is pitting from, or a spectator outside the the track boundary. The public liability insurance would deal with any claims.

If you think someone you hit on the track because they have stepped on to the track in front of you can claim on the insurance for any injuries, do you also believe if you are driving your 1:1 car and someone deliberately stepped out in front of you that person should be able to claim on your insurance?

[RogerM]

This thread makes me a little sad, it seems that the common sense element has been lost as Jim says, but then it seems to have been lost in life in general compared to 25 years ago.

I mean that if I walked in to the road without looking to see if a car was coming and got hit I'd not blame the driver ... I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED!! I'd not try and claim of his insurance for my mistake, I'd claim of my own personal accident cover if at all. If the driver was doing something silly, like massively speeding, which I couldn't have predicted then it was at least part his fault as he wasn't following the rules of conduct relating to the roads!

Now lets liken that to race day and I am marshalling, Joe Blogs crashes his car by my point from the lead of a final but the other 9 guys are coming along not far behind him I'm affraid Mr Blogs will have to wait and become last. How is that fair? Well it was his mistake crashing there and I don't see why I should;

a) potentially ruin the runs of other drivers who haven't made a mistake by stepping out in front of them and maybe blocking their view, causing them to swerve to avoid the idiot in the middle of the track (i.e. me in this case) or worse still kicking their car and damaging it

or

b) putting myself at risk of injury for the sake of reducing the impact of Joe's mistake by a couple of seconds!

I will get there as fast as SAFELY possible and do my best to marshal his car as well as possible (i.e. not pull the wing off, not drop it back on it's roof again and put it on the correct part of the track facing in a sensible direction)

Now that brings me back to my other pet hates with marshalling;

1) the shouters ... your screaming voice doesn't make me waddle my fat butt across the track any faster, if anything it makes me less interested in helping you (if I've not noticed the car and am facing in the wrong direction please feel free to shout something like "marshal 6, behind you please" or ask the ref to do it for you).

2) the revers ... I'm not picking it up with you reving it, I need my fingers for work and typing fluff and nonsense on to RC forums. If you rev it I will hold my hands up till you stop, if you rev it when I'm holding it I will let go.
Be sensible, it is especially bad when the marshal is a little kid who might not be thinking "safety first"!


Now back to my comment about the general reduction in common sense and the ability to asses risk and the roads. How many people over the age of 30 remember those cartoon hedge hogs teaching us about the green-cross-code? Most of us I expect, hence why were not constantly bouncing off the bonnets of people carriers!
I see so many kids / young people who walk out in the road in traffic and expect the motorists to stop ... crazy.
Even my dog sits and waits for a clear slot to walk across the road for crying out load ... how dumb are these people (as it's not just the youngsters to be fair)?????

I blame the ambulence chasers for installing this "where there is blame there is a claim" culture into our lives and making them poorer for it.

Third party insurance is just that, protecting the other person for the affects of your mistake .... if you want personal accident cover take it out, it's not expensive, hell I get mine free with my bank account.

Stop, look, listen ... It's not hard to spot a brightly coloured buggy heading for you.

[RogerM]

Terry, your last post reminds of an incident from about 1987/1988 at the Alcesster Buggy Club.

A guys Turbo Burns 1/8th buggy suffered a stuck throttle on the straight, used the banked corner at the end as a jump and flew over the fence in to the car park and through the windscreen of a couple of week old Cossie .... there was a collective gasp from the pits, a scury to make sure nobody was hurt and one brave sole dived into the Cossie and caught the buggy and stalled it's engine. Not before it had ripped the interior of the car to shreds!!

We looked around to see the owner of the Cossie and for the driver of the Turbo Burns to come down off the rostrum ... we waited, waited and waited ... the the truth dawned ... the Cossie and Turbo Burns were owned by the same chap!!!!!

I've never had to fight back the laughter so much in all my life, talk about unlucky!

[Welshy40]

Originally Posted by Jim Spencer

Hi All

Craig, Terry & Stumpy have it spot on.

Once YOU make the decision to leave the marshals post, you have made that call and if a car then hits you it's essentially your fault.
The insurance is really aimed at ensuring you, as a driver, or event official, don't have to put your hand very deeply into your pocket when somebody sue's you after a car - heaven forbid - ends up in the spectators..
(which has unfortunatly happended, there have been a few serious accidents over the years)

The cover whilst at your post is really an added bonus as it's a carry over from the full sized motorsport world (our policy is actually a scaled down version of the same one the Motorsport association use)

However what it doesn't include is -
Personal Accident Cover (i.e. where you through your own actions, such as tripping over a perfectly ok track marker, or stepping out right in front of a car basically hurt yourself)
This has been offered to the membership a couple of times but always rejected out of hand due to the cost of it (it would basically triple the membership fee)


Terry summed up the next bit very nicley:-
If you think that if you can't work you could end up losing your house, then you should already have your own personal accident insurance which would cover being hit by an r/c car. After all, breaking an ankle by an r/c car on a track hitting you is no different to being hit by a stray r/c car hitting you in a car park or even breaking an ankle by tripping on some stairs.

Any high street broker can provide this, it's not too expensive and well worth it if you don't have some other form of income protection.


To finish off
The cover has always been like this - it hasn't changed for at least the last 25 years.
There are currently no plans to change it. - though it is always reviewed.


Last bit is this:-
It's everybodies job to ensure safety, if YOU think anything is unsafe at an event it's YOUR responsability to inform race control, be it a poor track markers, marshals post badly sited or protected, dodgy bumper on a car even somebodies driving..

Stay safe out there!


Jim Spencer
Treasurer (& Insurance Bod)
BRCA

So as long as you turn up to marshal you cannot really be penalised for not doing it, as your not insured. I will remember that for the future. If we are expected to marshal then you need to up the insurance so everyone on the track is covered and not just on the marshal point.

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by Welshy40

So as long as you turn up to marshal you cannot really be penalised for not doing it, as your not insured. I will remember that for the future. If we are expected to marshal then you need to up the insurance so everyone on the track is covered and not just on the marshal point.

If you think just sitting at the marshal point and not marshalling is fine, then don't be surprised when you get the same penalty as not marshalling. Also don't complain when everyone marshalling your heat is told not to touch your car, if you don't want to marshal then you can't complain if no one marshals you car either.

As a race organiser I am not going to take out extra insurance to cover you when you are acting irresponsibly, that includes jumping out in front of other cars on the track. If you are not happy with that, then either take out your own accident insurance, or the for sale section is here.

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by terry.sc

I think the difference is that 25 years ago we all read the handbook and understood what public liability insurance is. Today, based on this thread it looks like people have just seen the word 'insurance' and jumped to the conclusion that it protects them for everything.

After all, there are still some beginners who assume, like 1:1 car insurance, it covers them for damage when they break their car while racing.

Also 25 years ago for most cases if we stood on the track and a car ran into us and broke our ankle we would blame ourselves for stepping out when it wasn't clear. We had the common sense to know that if we didn't want to get injured we didn't step out on the track without looking first, or to stand at a marshalling point where there was a chance you could get injured. Now it appears that because they have heard the word 'insurance' used in connection with their BRCA membership people have assumed if they get injured for any reason then the BRCA will pay out for any expenses or loss of earnings.

For those moaning about not covering loss of earnings when injured, as has been pointed out several times in this thread being injured when racing is no different to injuring yourself at home. If you can't afford to lose income due to a broken ankle while marshalling, then you also can't afford to lose income due to a broken ankle caused by falling off a step ladder at home, or if you stepped out in front of a 1:1 car. If you are employed your company sick pay should already cover you, if not then you should have already taken the responsibility of sorting out your own personal accident insurance anyway.

BTW in my case, although I would advise taking it out anyway, you do not need BRCA membership to race at my club as I have to pay for a proportion of the halls public liability insurance on top the rent. This has more cover than the BRCA insurance, but even with sharing the insurance with the likes of slimming and dog training clubs it still costs quite a bit more than BRCA affiliation.

so under the brca if my car breaks a heart sugeons finger at a club after leaving the track, he could sue me for £££££££ and my brca would pay, if i came to your club as a non brca member (no insurance) and the same happened would the venues insurance cover me the same?

[mark christopher]

Roger M

agree with your long post fully ( not quoted it to save space on here!)

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by Welshy40

So as long as you turn up to marshal you cannot really be penalised for not doing it, as your not insured. I will remember that for the future. If we are expected to marshal then you need to up the insurance so everyone on the track is covered and not just on the marshal point.

TRUE, but remember other may choose not to marshall your car!

NO were expected to marshal and consider our saftey while doing it, if YOU feel your incompetentant at making a sensible judgment of when to move from your marshal point. then YOU need to make sure you are insured, its not down to the brca.

[h0m3sy]

This thread has made me laugh, all that is needed is some common sense when marshalling. Something sadly lacking with some of the posts I've read.

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

so under the brca if my car breaks a heart sugeons finger at a club after leaving the track, he could sue me for £££££££ and my brca would pay, if i came to your club as a non brca member (no insurance) and the same happened would the venues insurance cover me the same?

According to the information I have been given on it from the hall committee, yes my halls public liability insurance will cover it. Although as it is only effective for events inside the hall, I wouldn't like to speculate what would happen if a car shot off through the door and hit something outside in the street. It also doesn't cover members if they 'test' their cars in the car park. To be honest, the only racers who aren't BRCA members are the kids who turn up each week to run around with their basic Tamiya TT01s.

[jimbot]

[QUOTE=RogerM;693741]Terry, your last post reminds of an incident from about 1987/1988 at the Alcesster Buggy Club.

Think I was there when a car left the track don't remember it being that bad if I am correct think that club had something to do with the late Justin Mackay and his dad Dave.

Now I showing my age!
Jim

[jasonrcb]

The cossie belonged to John Vale his dad's face was quite a picture from what i can remember.

Justin and Dave were puma sponsored so they spent alot time down there with us,really nice and helpful friends,R.I.P.mate

[SlowOne]

An interesting read. If this thread were about there being too much H&S these days - too much nanny state - I wonder how many of the people expecting this insurance to cover everything, no matter what they do, would also be saying there is too much nanny state these days...?!

The way to remove this problem completely is not to race these classes. If everyone does not take safety personally and actively, and there is a claim like the rock climbing one, then that's what may happen. We are a minority sport with little or no clout and zero public sympathy, so if something made the papers...

We all want our sport to be there for us, so now we all know what is and what is not covered, let's take responsibility and not be victims. As it has been for the last 25 years, safety is our responsibility... all of us...

[crtpromachine]

There is just 1 question i would like to ask and see if i can get the correct answer;

So i take it if you took your own public insurance out would this allow you to race at BRCA non affiltated and affilated meetings;

Or is it the case you would still need to own a BRCA licence as well

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by crtpromachine

There is just 1 question i would like to ask and see if i can get the correct answer;

So i take it if you took your own public insurance out would this allow you to race at BRCA non affiltated and affilated meetings;

Or is it the case you would still need to own a BRCA licence as well

you would need to be a brca member to count points/compete at brca affiliated meetings as far as im aware as most state on the entry you need to be in the brca and ask for your number