Storm Valley sugar or no sugar ???

[buggy man]

Through the winter months it's just been weekend only no plan to change it currently until May

Regard
jared

[buggy man]

So the general concenus is that it's not the grip it's more about the actual jumps and track ???

Power is something we didn't think was that much of a issue but it obviously is so we can now get that looked at

Big question is then if the track was made for 1/10th in mind and a hope that the 1/8th boys would still use it is that something that the 10th drivers want and would use ???

Or are we just wasting our time, effort and money because all the 10th boys want is astro ???

[trr061984]

Originally Posted by buggy man

Through the winter months it's just been weekend only no plan to change it currently until May

Regard
jared

Jared,

Thanks for that.

Cheers.

[Big G]

Originally Posted by Origineelreclamebord

It's probably not down to the track - I assume the wear rates you refer to are of ProLine Holeshot tires? They wear down at the first sight of clay! I suggest you use something with a less delicate and small profile. For example, ProLine Blockades are already a bit chunkier but has a similar tread - perhaps it's worth a shot? Then there's also the ProLine Caliber, which is not the most grippy tire I tried (though I don't find the Holeshot much better), but it's tread life is really decent - I've done two meetings with most sets I used!

Yes I was referencing the control tyre...

[jasonrcb]

From reading the previous posts it does seem to be the quality of the track and not the grip that is the issue with racers,as for whether 10th drivers would use it alot more in the future then i would think the midwest regional coming up will give you some of the answers by what is thought of it then,for the regional i have the best part of a 2 hour drive so i'm hoping you get things sorted,seeing video's of the size of the track it will be interesting to see how 10 car heats and finals work as i read that the quick guys are doing 16-17 second laps and to me that could be carnage in qualifying with overtaking and lapping cars,the times i have raced on dirt i have really enjoyed it and i hope this works out to be a good meeting.

[Aire valley]

Or are we just wasting our time, effort and money because all the 10th boys want is astro ???..quote

Let's face it, astro would have benefits for yourself being easier to maintain etc, and much easier for most drivers to just turn up with the tyres they use elsewhere...not having to buy "dirt" tyres which are no use anywhere except RHR....!
It's sometimes good trying to be different, but economics say, go with the most popular..
The principle of a permanent indoor track is brilliant....

[Origineelreclamebord]

Originally Posted by Big G

Yes I was referencing the control tyre...

If there is a control tire, why not take a tread with superior tread life (even if it has slightly less grip)? For me it wasn't a night and day performance difference, so if that counts for everyone it may be worth looking into something more durable

[/tobys]

My opinion is that if you made the track 10th specific, I think that there would be much more interest. I know of a couple of people who have been and were put off because, I think, not so much of the low grip, but the big features that were very difficult to navigate on account of the low grip. having run 4wd round on my most recent visit, the grip issues were not as large (as expected) but having several cars running round and navigating the "obstacles" at different speeds could be a problem.

On a personal note, the last time I came to run, I planned a full day but left at lunchtime on account of all the Nitros - if they are not barging you off the track (cos lets face it, the track is small for 10th, for 8th it must seem very small) then the constant running of the cars in the pits and the "fog" of exhaust in the track arena soon make the novelty of running on dirt evaporate. Its not a criticism of the facility or of Nitro per-se, rather the co-existence of 10th and 8th on the same day! Other tracks I've been to where both run at the same meeting have had the same problem (except for fumes, cos they were outside).

[ahhseeten]

The question here is not really should things be left alone. It's a question of what needs to be done as it is obvious that something has to change. No club can survive with repeatedly low turnouts. With this in mind it's just not valid to say I don't come to your club but I do like it the way it is. Actions speak louder. If drivers liked it, they'd go - but they aren't, so by definition, they don't like it - regardless of what they say.

Sugaring clay tracks is in vogue and should be embraced as a new exciting development in serious buggy racing. Given that something dramatic has to happen and sugaring is as dramatic as is practical at that venue. It has to be worth a try.

Other reasons why people aren't going..

1) lack of momentum. I think people haven't been going because hardly anyone else is! It's a catch 22 thing. To be busy you need to be popular in the first place.. I think sugaring might be the nudge needed.
2) lack of friendliness. Mentioned before I think this is a much bigger factor than has been admitted so far. I have noticed a stern atmosphere and think the meets are run too strictly but I personally don't think it's unfriendliness, just an overly austere attitude. I think people are interpreting this as a non fun club and prefer to race more relaxed elsewhere.
3) I know I said it before but I think it's not been given enough recognition and worth restating. People haven't got rear motor 2wd cars and they don't want to slither round with a mid motor car which will need major setup changes from the astro setup currently on their car. A sugared track will cure all that. Since 2wd is far more popular than 4wd this is a very big problem, probably the biggest and the main reason why I have not been going recently.

[RogerM]

Originally Posted by ahhseeten

3) I know I said it before but I think it's not been given enough recognition and worth restating. People haven't got rear motor 2wd cars and they don't want to slither round with a mid motor car which will need major setup changes from the astro setup currently on their car. A sugared track will cure all that. Since 2wd is far more popular than 4wd this is a very big problem, probably the biggest and the main reason why I have not been going recently.

Certainly why I've not been tempted to go along when some of my friends have gone.

[jasonrcb]

If people are going and finding the meetings are being run overly strict and not fun then there is another reason people are possibly staying away,as previously mentioned someone was spoken to rudely and to be fair nobody wants that do they,its a hobby and mean't to be fun so if your running meetings that are not fun then that will spread faster than how ever good or bad the track is.

Also as Toby has said,10th and 8th don't mix on the same day for the stated reasons he said,i would of been pretty unamused if i had driven a distance to find nitro's being revved up in the pits and choking the place out,it's not enjoyable listening to it all day outdoors so it certainly would be another reason not to go with your indoor pitting.

As for sugaring the track,you have nominated m4 holeshots for the regional so that can't be changed and if sugaring the track means a minimum of 2 sets per day then you have no chance of getting numbers there,best part of £50 on tyres for a day,fuel race fees etc that would stand me about £100 and no track is worth that for a hobby.

[Aire valley]

Originally Posted by ahhseeten
3) I know I said it before but I think it's not been given enough recognition and worth restating. People haven't got rear motor 2wd cars and they don't want to slither round with a mid motor car which will need major setup changes from the astro setup currently on their car. A sugared track will cure all that. Since 2wd is far more popular than 4wd this is a very big problem, probably the biggest and the main reason why I have not been going recently.

Yet another reason for changing to astro turf...!

[mark-rc]

Originally Posted by Aire valley

Or are we just wasting our time, effort and money because all the 10th boys want is astro ???..quote

Let's face it, astro would have benefits for yourself being easier to maintain etc, and much easier for most drivers to just turn up with the tyres they use elsewhere...not having to buy "dirt" tyres which are no use anywhere except RHR....!
It's sometimes good trying to be different, but economics say, go with the most popular..
The principle of a permanent indoor track is brilliant....

I have to say, Indoor Astro Turf sounds good to me. It fixes a number of issues.

1st, 'Cost' you only need one set of tyres that work on astro, and those tyres will last a good number of meeting, for both 10th & 1/8th. The problem with Dirt tracks is you need Dirt Tyres, and those dirt tyres don't last long! And then there's the problem of what dirt tyre works the best and in what compound. e.g, you go out and by £90 worth of dirt tyres, turn up at the track, and none of what you just bought work all that well, or are not the tyre to have for that track. Or, the tyre to use works best in super soft compound but they only last 2-3 runs! If your on a full FOC sponsored drive then it's not a problem, but most racers are on a budget, and they race to have fun! I don't see where the fun is in trying to compete with who's got the best tyres and how many new sets of them tyres you can put on your car in a meeting.

2nd, once the track is put down, it needs very little maintenance. And if Layout right, is just as good and as much fun, for both 1/10th and 1/8th.

3rd, Because you have all the grip you need, both 2WD & 4WD become more consistent around the track, and also on the take off and landing of the jumps. Just because the cars have grip, does not make the the track like a touring car track. You make it off road by the layout of the track, making it technical enough to give the fast guys something to think about, yet consistent enough for the club level racers to be able to get round the track without getting frustrated with not being able to jump the car or it spinning out on every other corner. The old Stoke S.N.R.C Astro track was on the small side, but it was always brilliant to race on, they made the most out of the space they used, and the track always had plenty of technical features in it, that made it fun to drive for all levels of ability.

If I ran a club like Storm Vally, I would ask myself, do I build a track that realistically is aimed at those number of drivers that do the Nationals 'On Dirt' so they have somewhere they get run on dirt what ever the weather, or do I build a track with the 90% of racers in mind, that want 'FUN' cost effective racing, No matter the weather! I know which one I would pick! But that's just my opinion.

[Richard Lowe]

I'd 100% disagree with the "I need a rear motor to run 2wd there" thinking. When I went to the RC-Area meeting I won it with an X6, and next time I go I'll only be taking the Centro with me for 2wd.

The only thing that people might need to change is the motors they're running, a 10.5 will be more than enough for most people in 2wd at SV - it will have more than enough grunt to clear the jumps and will be a lot easier to get the power you actually have to the ground. One of the main things I've noticed whenever I've run in America is how sensible the club level drivers are in general about motors, they tend to only bolt in what they can handle - whereas over here it seems to be 5/6.5 in 4wd and 6/7.5 in 2wd no matter what the track/driver skill level.

Covering the track in astro would completely defeat the point and make it 'just another track', also the myth people seem to believe about 1-2 run tyres on dirt totally doesn't apply on either SV or RHR-D surfaces. The M4's I ran at SV had 2 RHR-D meeting's worth of running on them and there's still plenty of life left in them now! With the style of dirt tyre used at SV you can pretty much run them down to bald if there's no dust on the line, unlike minispikes on astro which these days are way slower after just one run because the edge has worn off the spike.

[madmulc]

I have raced my SV2 at storm valey and found no problems at all. I am not a sponcered driver but I am an old school racer from the 80's when you had one type of car and you set it up for the surface you are racing on.

The only thing in my opinion that needs looking at is the jump infront of the rostrum. It is to agressive for 1/10 scale cars.

I am a little disapointed Storm valey are not running a regionals 2wd as well as the 4wd.

Reall racers will race on anything and be able to set the car up to what ever surface it is.

(i guess im not a real racer then lol)

[Alan Reeves]

Originally Posted by buggy man

Nice to see what people's thoughts are - please keep them coming interesting to see and it can only help us to reach the right decision and also the right changes to make the venue better

Also good to see what bad points there are to the venue as some things can be the slightest thing to us but a massive thing to the racer

I came for a practice once mid week and then for round 2? of the winter champs.
4wd I must state now so can't comment on how much of a struggle it is for 2wd although it certainly had more grip than Batley indoor or bury indoor with their polished wood floors!
The track itself I liked, I thought grip levels were pretty good and I only had m3's on! If I were to change anything it would be the jump nearest the rostrum, but only slightly, to allow the fastest drivers a chance to jump the whole feature in one.
Regarding tyres,
The m3's I used for both days I will happily use again, tread wear is very minimal, for the amount of laps I did at storm I would have used 2 sets of schuey yellows on astro.


Round 2? or whichever round it was, was the day the power went off and we were stood around for over an hour, I didn't wait to see if the meeting resumed or not, I'd had enough by then.
There was no follow up from storm on this, I would have liked to see the owner offer a free practice day or something to compensate for the fact we paid £15 for 2 heats of racing! Maybe that would have tempted me back sooner. Leaving the track feeling hard done by is never gonna make you want to return quickly.

That is the main reason I haven't returned, I can go race at most other places for £5/£7/£10 and get a full days racing, at storm I paid £15 for 2 heats.
Fixing the electric issue to include availability of charging would also be a good step forwards as would increasing the size of the pits as we ended up at the top of the carpark pitting out of the boot of the car on a wet windy winters day, which lets face it you just don't expect when your racing "indoors"

[Big G]

Originally Posted by Aire valley

Or are we just wasting our time, effort and money because all the 10th boys want is astro ???..quote

Let's face it, astro would have benefits for yourself being easier to maintain etc, and much easier for most drivers to just turn up with the tyres they use elsewhere...not having to buy "dirt" tyres which are no use anywhere except RHR....!
It's sometimes good trying to be different, but economics say, go with the most popular..
The principle of a permanent indoor track is brilliant....

the number of dirt tracks will never increase if existing dirt tracks are covered in astro.

On a tyre wear note, you could easily get through a set at Kidderminster track, yet that track remains one of the UK's best.

If SV wasn't 160mile round trip I'd more than likely race regularly if there was a club night in the week. (Can't do weekends right now)

[bigt]

The ambiance just wasn't right whenever I've been to a stoke nitro meet drive for an hour or more to be be greeted by a sour attitude I'd love to race at sv only nobody wants to come with and asking for money on a free race day whatever the circumstances only makes people think the head honchos a cock

[buggy man]

Originally Posted by bigt

The ambiance just wasn't right whenever I've been to a stoke nitro meet drive for an hour or more to be be greeted by a sour attitude I'd love to race at sv only nobody wants to come with and asking for money on a free race day whatever the circumstances only makes people think the head honchos a cock

Tim you forgot to mention the truth about you being told regards smoking the drugs !!!

[J'MM'N]

Can't see why people think there is a tyre wear issue at SV. I imagine I could get a set of holeshots to last a lot longer at SV than a set of minispikes on a astro track.

Converting the track to astro wouldn't work in my opinion, except perhaps when its raining. Why would I want to travel all the way to SV when there are astro tracks a lot nearer to me.

The 1/10 and 1/8 running together is probably an issue and is possibly one reason 1/10 is low on attendance. Maybe suggest running 1/10 Saturday and 1/8 Sunday and alternating them each week, so those that can only do one day or other will be able to attend on a fortnightly basis.

I like the idea of been able to race on dirt, but been a 2hr trip has made it more difficult to attend on a regular basis than I'd like to.