Today's discussion

[Chris56]

Today I would like to talk about tyres, in particular foams vs rubbers.
In light of a recent thread, I want to make it clear that this is not intended as a discussion about changing club rules or penalising other drivers, simply an open discussion to explore people views on the advantages/disadvantages of running different tyres and their effects on performance and driving abilities.

Ok, here goes

Foam tyres are permitted in all classes apart from TC. In GT12 you would be a fool not to run them (BRCA rules?); in TC they are banned as we are running BRCA rules. In clubman some people love them and some people hate them and in buggy I have notice quite a few racers running them on a Friday night.
I have been a big fan of them on my old Tamiya cars since we started running clubman – they have really helped my consistency and have enabled me to set some blistering times with some pretty crappy cars, despite me being a “not so good” driver! . Last Friday I switched to rubbers and, qu’el surprise, noticed a massive difference in how the car handled. I was getting left for dead by drivers I’ve previously been able to beat (not mentioning any names there Martin!) and the car was really sliding around. After making some setup tweaks I noticed my lap times falling considerably and my control of the car improved (as expected).

But then I had a thought: did all of this time running foams on a car designed for rubber make me a lazy driver? A TB02 with foams is really easy to drive fast and consistently – you simply point, shoot and apply as much throttle as you want, then lift off before corners. With rubbers, however it was a bit of a handful and I had to become much smother with throttle delivery, braking and steering. In the Saturday off road series my performance hasn’t improved as much as other drivers and im wondering whether its because I have become more conditioned to running foam tyres.

I am going to stick with rubber as, although I am not as fast, I am having to deal with car-control and smoothness. In Friday’s final (after 3 practice rounds on the rubbers) I was finding the car really rewarding to drive. Yes it was sliding but the fact that (in most cases anyway!) I was able to control the slides and set consistent lap times. I would argue that my driving ability improved that night, whereas it was stagnant when running foams.

Ok, if you are still awake from reading my ramblings I have a few questions:
1) Do foams have the same effect on buggies when ran on carpet?
2) Has anybody experienced the same thing?
3) Should beginners who choose to race in clubman/off road be encouraged to run rubbers (even Venoms in off road), since it will teach them car control before they are able to complete fast laps?

As I’ve said above, this is an open discussion about tyres and not a debate on what rules we have for each heat or how people drive/treat others – so keep it friendly!

[siddus74]

Your brave Chris ...

[siddus74]

Foam can be grabby in my experience, on an open diff car or loose diff they work really well, on a fluid diff or ball diff they can be grabby ...

Scott.

[cunawarit]

1) I don't know.
2) Yes. That's largely why I prefer rubber tyres.
3) Yes. I think they teach you a certain degree of throttle control that gripper tyres wouldn't. I have found stock buggy great for this, it is even more fun than Clubman tourers.

[reg]

I think once you set a car up to run foams they are good to help you learn good lines as nothing random happens,in GT12 it's ideal as you need to maintain good corner speed to keep the speed up on the straight parts,a badly setup car on foam can be really hard to drive!
I think you would be surprised how easy your car would be to drive on a high grip track on rubber,our track is a very hard track to run rubber on,good fun though lol

[Robbiejuk]

Originally Posted by reg

I think once you set a car up to run foams they are good to help you learn good lines as nothing random happens,in GT12 it's ideal as you need to maintain good corner speed to keep the speed up on the straight parts,a badly setup car on foam can be really hard to drive!
I think you would be surprised how easy your car would be to drive on a high grip track on rubber,our track is a very hard track to run rubber on,good fun though lol

Just out of interest what tyres are you actually running in touring?

[Chris56]

Originally Posted by reg

I think once you set a car up to run foams they are good to help you learn good lines as nothing random happens

Grip roll though! When I ran foams on the TA02 it grip rolled like a drunken fat bloke. I only managed to get rid of it by soaking the sidewall with superglue (thanks BTW Paul!) and running crazy front camber due to the limited tuning.

Strangely, my TB02 hasn't grip-rolled once on foams.

[Chris56]

Originally Posted by Robbiejuk

Just out of interest what tyres are you actually running in touring?

I think most use Sorex 28

[reg]

Originally Posted by Robbiejuk

Just out of interest what tyres are you actually running in touring?

32's 28's and 26's not sure whats the best though

[reg]

Originally Posted by Chris56

Grip roll though! When I ran foams on the TA02 it grip rolled like a drunken fat bloke. I only managed to get rid of it by soaking the sidewall with superglue (thanks BTW Paul!) and running crazy front camber due to the limited tuning.

Strangely, my TB02 hasn't grip-rolled once on foams.

I would say 99% of people who run foam use glue,makes a big difference,as does front toe settings.

[Chris56]

I've tried 32s on our carpet but just couldn't get heat into them. I ran 22s on friday and they were much better

[Chris56]

Originally Posted by reg

as does front toe settings.

Toe in or out?

[reg]

Originally Posted by Chris56

Toe in or out?

A bit of Toe in just takes the edge off and gives a bit of understeer.

[Robbiejuk]

Originally Posted by reg

32's 28's and 26's not sure whats the best though

28's with jb foam inserts used to be weapon of choice. 24's used to heat up to much and 32's only really helped when running mod.

[Dave Dodd]

When I started I ran vtec 24's which were great on the tennis court during the summer season at the school but indoors I used sorex 28's, if the car was being a pest I used the wets which sounded great after the first lap cos they got quite hot and sticky , so used to squeal everywhere. Lol
Foams on the gt12 are the norm as is super glue on the front sidewalls. I've used foams on a m03 purely to make it work as it was modded to rear wheel drive and had a retarded 6.5t bl motor in it (awesome controled drifts)..
Foams on the buggy, honesty only tried this the other week on Abi's car and was really great except I hadn't altered the gearing so was quite slow up the straight. Will try again
Do have some soft tarmac tyres to try, see how they compare to the venoms..
As Gui has said the venoms are good fun and does teach throttle control but can be difficult as we drive a different line to the mini pin drivers

[The Doctor]

Having woken up again, my view would be...

1) Do foams have the same effect on buggies when ran on carpet?

Running foams on buggies is like being a man and wearing a skirt. It's just not the done thing and you will look like a girl. (Apologies to any men reading this who do like wearing skirts; that was not an insult towards you.)

2) Has anybody experienced the same thing?

I have not experienced wearing a skirt, no.

But I do think that racing a car where, as you say, you can just point & squirt (as it were... ) reduces the rate at which you improve your car control ability. This is regardless of what tyres you're running. Basically you want to be running the car as fast as you can based on the capability of your thumbs and the chassis. If you're always crashing because you/the chassis can't handle the power (I have some people in mind who I will NOT name), then you're not learning anything. Except maybe memorising the spare part numbers of the bits that keep breaking. Similarly, if you're just operating within your/the chassis limits then you're also not going to be improving.

3) Should beginners who choose to race in clubman/off road be encouraged to run rubbers (even Venoms in off road), since it will teach them car control before they are able to complete fast laps?

Let them find out for themselves and run what they have first. If they crash all over the place, then we may want to suggest a slower motor, whatever tyres they're running.