Foam Tyres - the great debate

[andy110m]

So If we are incorrect and as total Newbie suggests its doesn't boil down to keeping the sponsors happy and forgetting the drivers pockets, why does it have to be spiked rubber tyres?

I'd be happy running the VBC, or atleast trying them because the reports from other countries seem really favourable.

I think thats called a compromise?

Chris I think your'e right, the 2nd run on the mini's from new is the best but they get slower run by run after that, granted not by alot. Foams would be consistant run after run, round by round.

I think some people are also losing site about why this idea is popular, its about saving money not, spending loads to get all the different compounds and truing them down to nothing.

Interesting to start reading more support for this from the low ranks of the meeting, (thats me) rather than the A final faithful, everythings fine as it is.

[Chrislong]

Hows it saving money?! For me and other racers like me using worn tyres from elsewhere - it'd cost me money I don't want to spend.

[Cockerill]

Originally Posted by andy110m

I think some people are also losing site about why this idea is popular, its about saving money not, spending loads to get all the different compounds and truing them down to nothing.

If you want to save money run a 'full spike' style tire or harder compound. Both should easily last the duration of the series and probably the next one too.

I'm going to take a stab in the dark and assume you don't want to do this because it will be slower, and I agree. That's why if we all started running foams and there was an advantage to truing them down to a slither and getting one run out of them, you would have to do it, or you'd accept been slower. Well if your going to accept that, see my suggestion above, if not then you'll be left truing tires.

[Oscar]

Originally Posted by total newbie

It appears to boil down to keep the sponsors happy and forget the drivers pockets.
Jake.

The reason behind the decision was quite clearly stated by the club chairman.
The club will not risk losing the use of any of its venues by allowing activites which could potentially cause damage.

[bigred5765]

just spent the last 20mins reading every reply and most if not all are pointless, the rule is no foams, end of,argue all you want there banned,

[kayce]

Originally Posted by Cockerill

If you want to save money run a 'full spike' style tire or harder compound. Both should easily last the duration of the series and probably the next one too.

I'm going to take a stab in the dark and assume you don't want to do this because it will be slower, and I agree. That's why if we all started running foams and there was an advantage to truing them down to a slither and getting one run out of them, you would have to do it, or you'd accept been slower. Well if your going to accept that, see my suggestion above, if not then you'll be left truing tires.

It always seem that the people that say "foams are cheaper" are people that haven't run foams for any period - being as anybody that has would tell them that foams (while faster) are quite easily the most expensive way to go, along with why so many touring car series have advocated rubbers (to save competitors' money).

Originally Posted by bigred5765

just spent the last 20mins reading every reply and most if not all are pointless, the rule is no foams, end of,argue all you want there banned,

End of story! At which point there should not even be a discussion going on, here, at all.
People that want a rules change should wait until next year, and make their submission to the chairman at that time.

[andys]

Only just seen the clubs statement re additive damaging the floor.

Fair play - it's the main argument that really makes sense to me.

[kayce]

del...

[Oscar]

Originally Posted by kayce

How would advocating foams be "fair play"????

Unless I'm reading it wrong, I think all Andy is saying is he understands why the decision has been made.

[andys]

John.

You read it right

Andy

[DCM]

Originally Posted by Cockerill

If it was really that simple to detect addative I'm sure the proffessionals of this industry wouldn't have problems detecting it at the worlds, but if you read any race report from the last 2-3 1/8th worlds you'll soon realise that the addative can't be tech'd without a complex machine.

In my very limited experience of foam tires, they generate a lot of black dust when they wear (regardless of addative), this has to go somewhere and be cleaned up by someone, another job for them very few club volunteers.

The issue at the world, was that there was a control additive, and people were using other additives, as the control one didn't work.

Right, in buggies, you get no advantage to trying them down skinny, but they do need truing to make them round and take out wear from running camber. You can't run down to soft on the shore rating, as you get grip roll, and additive just makes it worse.

Alsom they only then work if the track is 100% carpet, put a bit of shiny on the corners, and they are pants.

We allow them at our club, and a lot of drivers go back to rubbers as it makes the cars easier to drive.

[mattb]

These are the bald tyres i used and had loads of steering

[Col]

Impressively knackered Matt.

[andy110m]

Well fair enough you've all convinced me. Foams must be crap.

£6.50 a car set that lasts a season with better than rubber performance - what was I thinking?

I keep reading about additive? How many people are saucing their rubber tyres? Most additives these days are developed for rubber and i've raced at clubs where its commonly used and it makes a massive difference.

I've got fed up with this, seems people who do this hobby are loaded and money saving is of no concern, anyone who suggests such a thing must be a fool, lets all keep throwing money at it!

But can anyone please tell me for about the fifth time of asking why can we not try the VBC RUBBER tyres? Why must it be spiked tyres? And when does a spiked tyre become illegal because its worn down and its no longer spiked.

[kayce]

Originally Posted by andy110m

Well fair enough you've all convinced me. Foams must be crap.
£6.50 a car set that lasts a season with better than rubber performance - what was I thinking?

I've got fed up with this, seems people who do this hobby are loaded and money saving is of no concern, anyone who suggests such a thing must be a fool, lets all keep throwing money at it!

But can anyone please tell me for about the fifth time of asking why can we not try the VBC RUBBER tyres? Why must it be spiked tyres? And when does a spiked tyre become illegal because its worn down and its no longer spiked.

Only person who's said they were cheaper was you, but I'm sorry the facts suggest quite the opposite to be true.
In all my years running foam tyres I've never had a set last a season - and faster on the flat sections doesn't neccessarily equate to better performance, just faster on flat. But again, it still shouldn't justify all the other Batley members buying them when they already have tyres that meet with the club leadership's approval.

[andy110m]

The person that said they are cheaper is the man running them in the first place and looking at what he did I completely believe him. Anyway lets leave foams alone. I'm more than happy to see the members your talking about spend thick end of twenty quid a set every round.

What I was saying is could we try the VBC rubber tyres? Simon asked and was told no because they aren't spiked. I'd just like this to be confirmed and maybe a reason for it?

[kayce]

Originally Posted by andy110m

The person that said they are cheaper is the man running them in the first place and looking at what he did I completely believe him. I'm more than happy to see the members your talking about spend thick end of twenty quid a set every round.

Yet another exaggerated tale.

[Andyp]

Them vbc's are £22 a set with postage and it is advised that the inserts are no good , I dunno how long they will last as I have never tried them but if you are on a tight budget I'm sure a set of mini pins could last two rounds @ chadderton that's £7-£8 worth of tyre per meeting as you could cut the insert out and acetone the wheels to re-use only having to buy a new set of tyres every other meet. Considering most people will have spent around £500-£1000+ on a car , radio, elecs spares ect I don't think the cost of tyres are a factor.

[Chrislong]

Originally Posted by andy110m

I'm more than happy to see the members your talking about spend thick end of twenty quid a set every round.

Get off your high horse Andy Cotton, this topic was put to bed before you started it. See my post re: what I and many others are spending, see Tom's post re: how racing on foams escalates.

[andy110m]

Exaggerated? Don't see how, £8+£2+£7+£2= £19. Looks like the thick end of 20 to me. Sorry you're going to come back and say you're going to reuse the inserts, fine. £8+£7=£15. Still only getting a fiver back from that twenty!

I didn't want to be on anything, let alone a high horse, but that was a great idea in a open tyre competition and I see its just been slapped aside with no real justification. Just arguements that could be applied to both sides.

I agree with Andyp, with the amount of money we invest in the hobby, tyres at an individual event isn't an issue, but it does add up and anywhere we can reduce costs to everyone I'm all for trying and see where it goes. If it did turn in to a 12th style tyre war I'd be saying we should look at it but did Simon have lots of sets? Did he have them trued to elastic bands on wheels, did he use additive, did he chunk them and replace them every run, did they wear or change over the day or did his car come off covered in tyre dust? The answer to all these is No!

And for most of the reasons above I'd like to try the VBC's. Yes they are £22 a set and we'll probably want to spend another £4 on better inserts but I'm sure they'd give alot of the benefits of foam without being foam.