Perfect brushed clubman motor for F1s

cunawarit · #1 14-01-2014

I've seen Charlie go through a couple of silvercans in one meeting, as well as use anything and everything metal in his toolbox to improvize heat-sinks and cool the motors down.

In my TL01 I've tried a silvercan as well as 21T fan can motor and the performance difference wasn't huge. Both were quick with the right gearing and both were gutless off corners in the heavy tourer. The difference is that the silvercan ran at chassis melting temperatures and the fan can motor didn't.

TIC Racing seems to suggest that the HPI 20T performs the same as a Mardve G2, yet it lasts much longer and doesn't overheat: http://www.mardavespares.com/electri...0t-stock-motor

I'm just thinking it might be cheaper for everyone involved if they didn't keep on burning out silvercans

Thoughts? Anyone worries they might be too quick in F1s?

leedolby77 · #2 14-01-2014

I run that in my f104. It is very quick, however not much different to running a G2 so I agree that comparison wise they are ok.

I do think however that the F1's are going to be so much faster anyway even with a crap £5 540 tamiya silvercan. To put it into context with the F104 I set TQ with 20 laps in 306. In the final I ran litterally on the trim ( so maybe 1/8th trottle and still managed to win on I think it was 16 laps )

Would it be right to ask if F1's are not really suited to the clubman class?......

reg · #3 14-01-2014

I'm sure as no one is bothered about winning,it's all for fun,no one minds,
However what about having to run F1 on rubber,that way it won't be so much about motor but driving skill

siddus74 · #4 14-01-2014

Putting F1's on rubber is expensive I know I bought some and tried them, on carpet at Broxtowe and they don't work at all and that's high grip compared to WB... I feel it would kill the running of them at the club.

All this talk about having only a silvercan in the F1's makes me chuckle, my F104 pro had a 21.5 brushless which is BRCA ruling was slower than my Tyrell on stock gearing on a silver can ... but rules are rules ...

Scott.

cunawarit · #5 14-01-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by leedolby77

I run that in my f104. It is very quick, however not much different to running a G2 so I agree that comparison wise they are ok.

I do think however that the F1's are going to be so much faster anyway even with a crap £5 540 tamiya silvercan. To put it into context with the F104 I set TQ with 20 laps in 306. In the final I ran litterally on the trim ( so maybe 1/8th trottle and still managed to win on I think it was 16 laps )

Would it be right to ask if F1's are not really suited to the clubman class?......

When clubman was initially discussed the idea was plastic fantastic cheap Tamiyas. But personally I don't object to the F1s, they look cool going round the track and everyone can get one if they want

Most people in Clubman go for fun, so there's still plenty of tourers out there and it hasn't become an F1 only class.

So you ran the 20T fan can last time? I now have two silvercans, a G2 and a 21T fan can all soldered and ready to go. Will compare and see how it goes

Quote:

Originally Posted by reg

I'm sure as no one is bothered about winning,it's all for fun,no one minds,
However what about having to run F1 on rubber,that way it won't be so much about motor but driving skill

The only issue with that is that if it makes them perform awful then they'll be less fun and they'll go away... And there are no rubber tyres for my Mardave

siddus74 · #6 14-01-2014

Silvercans in F1's with stock gearing work fine, I know from experience .. the issues arise with melting motors and overheating stock esc's when you move away from kit gearing too 64dp / 48dp and gear them to high, hence the current draw increases ...

If an F1 is melting motors chances are it is over geared and the driver is cheating

If they are left stock and geared out the box the speed is comparable to 13.5 tourers and the mardave running in the class.

Scott.

leedolby77 · #7 14-01-2014

I suppose if we used rubber tyres I could at least use my new warmers.....

siddus74 · #8 14-01-2014

Ive only run a 27's and 25's in my F1 my Pro kept cutting out due to amp draw due gearing ...

Scott.

cunawarit · #9 14-01-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by siddus74

All this talk about having only a silvercan in the F1's makes me chuckle, my F104 pro had a 21.5 brushless which is BRCA ruling was slower than my Tyrell on stock gearing on a silver can ... but rules are rules ...

Scott.

Unless you are really taking the Michael I can't envisage anyone complaining.

cunawarit · #10 14-01-2014

The less rules the better I feel, there have been a few cars in Clubman which have had a little too much straight line speed. But it has't degenerated so far

Chris56 · #11 14-01-2014

Thanks for the advice Gui.

With F1s, I think keep the rules simple, allow foam tyres but restrict the motors to "moest brushed" only. Silver cans work great but can overheat if not geared properly. If a lower turned motor is no quicker in practice but doesn't overheat then i'd say allow it.

I think they are suitable for clubman, Yes they are quicker but only marginally, they don't get in the way (much!!!) and clubman isn't really about scoring points anyway.

leedolby77 · #12 14-01-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris56

Thanks for the advice Gui.

I think they are suitable for clubman, Yes they are quicker but only marginally, they don't get in the way (much!!!) and clubman isn't really about scoring points anyway.

Not about points?........ bugger..... GT12 it is then........

Chris56 · #13 14-01-2014

Don't worry Lee, you'll still get a trophy if you win!!

Dave Dodd · #14 14-01-2014

I looked into the motor kv comparisons to turned motors (basically sensorless to sensored) the leopard 12t is a 3300kv which to novak is 13.5 but some are listing it as 10.5..
we drag raced 2 trucks during the summer, one was a 8.5 and the other was a 10t sensorless, the 10t though slow to get going was more like a 6.5/7.5 at top end..

cunawarit · #15 14-01-2014

Dave, you saw my 12T sensor-less running stock buggy. 3300kv. Did that seem like a 13.5?

The 12T with the Turnigy ESC is PLENTY, and power delivery silky smooth and super progressive. The 9T is pretty pointless really... As for the Etronix ESCs, AWEFUL! So so so peaky! Might as well just be an on off switch.

cunawarit · #16 14-01-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by siddus74

If they are left stock and geared out the box the speed is comparable to 13.5 tourers and the mardave running in the class.

The Mardave is plenty quick! Quicker than most things and not far off the F1s... still, Martin's 9T 4300kv TA01 killed me on the start line.

Dave Dodd · #17 14-01-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by cunawarit

Dave, you saw my 12T sensor-less running stock buggy. 3300kv. Did that seem like a 13.5?

The 12T with the Turnigy ESC is PLENTY, and power delivery silky smooth and super progressive. The 9T is pretty pointless really... As for the Etronix ESCs, AWEFUL! So so so peaky! Might as well just be an on off switch.

Maybe try it again with zero timing but last Friday that was fast down the straight

cunawarit · #18 14-01-2014

I checked afters it had 15 deg of timing... It goes up to 30 I think