ZX6 on high-grip astro - looking for feedback

[simonrhart]

Hi,

As it's a new season coming up, I am considering whether I stick with my TLR 22-4 or get a ZX6. It makes sense to get a ZX6 because I have a DB2. What I want is a car that performs well on dry, high-grip astro-turf surfaces like the DB2.

The 22-4 is great in the winter on astro, it rotates on corners perfectly. In the dry however in the summer, it tends to dig in when attempting to take the corner with little rotation. I cannot get it to handle the way I want. I cannot loosen the rear ball diff any more than it is and it's fairly tight as it is, it needs to be this tight to prevent it from burning out.

So my question is, has anyone on this forum driven the ZX6 on dry astro with gear diffs. If so, how does it perform on fast sweeping dry astro tracks? How is the grip roll with or without the sway bars fitted?

Cheers for any feedback.

Simon

[RogerM]

Simon, I'm very happy with mine now, setup is a little different to most out there as many are derived from carpet developed setups over the winter. I'll be posting my current setup as soon as I can get it hosted to link to.
Car rotates really well when required but naturally pushes a fraction so safe on sweeping open corners too.

I've not run the gear diffs as I don't have an issue with the ball diffs, I might well try them soon out if interest but I don't think they are 'needed'.

You can make the car very forgiving without loosing corner speed, the key is to go for a stiffer front spring with no roll bar over running the ARB and a slightly softer spring.

For information my car is completely box stock parts wise other than different springs and shock pistons.

[HOTSHOT III]

How do your shock pistons differ from stock Roger, have you drilled the rears to 1.7mm?

[Hyperstrada]

Interesting to see Jared using RB6 wishbones on the rear of his ZX6 at the Cactus Casssic, obviously wasn't astro but still very high grip. Has anyone else tried them?

[simonrhart]

Originally Posted by RogerM

Simon, I'm very happy with mine now, setup is a little different to most out there as many are derived from carpet developed setups over the winter. I'll be posting my current setup as soon as I can get it hosted to link to.
Car rotates really well when required but naturally pushes a fraction so safe on sweeping open corners too.

I've not run the gear diffs as I don't have an issue with the ball diffs, I might well try them soon out if interest but I don't think they are 'needed'.

You can make the car very forgiving without loosing corner speed, the key is to go for a stiffer front spring with no roll bar over running the ARB and a slightly softer spring.

For information my car is completely box stock parts wise other than different springs and shock pistons.

Thanks Roger, very useful information.

How loose are you able to run your differentials? I like mine really loose, if anything like the ZX5 (which I suspect to be the case) then very loose.

It seems most with this car are converting to gear diffs for reduced maintenance and increase runtime. But I'm looking for more performance gains and less side bite going into corners.

Simon

[simonrhart]

Originally Posted by Hyperstrada

Interesting to see Jared using RB6 wishbones on the rear of his ZX6 at the Cactus Casssic, obviously wasn't astro but still very high grip. Has anyone else tried them?

I've heard folks swapping out wishbones for Durango arms for increased durability on this car. Not sure about RB6 arms though.

[RogerM]

Currently running 2x1.5 pistons in the front and 3x1.5 in the rear, 2x1.7 is very similar to the 3x1.5 just with a little more pack.

Base oils are 450cst in the fronts and 350cst in the rear with the 2x1.7 and 400cst with the 3x1.5.

As for diffs I'm running them reasonably tight, basically the same as I did with the ZX5-FS2 so rear a little looser than front.

I've tried RB6 rear wishbones on mine as I preffered them on ZX5-FS but I've gone back to the stock wishbones on the ZX6 as the last thing the ZX6 needs is more aggressive mid corner steering response.

As for swapping wishbones on the front, absolutely not necessary. On the back edge of the wishbone there is a screw hole with a small void behind it, but a lower shock ball in there and get a use a screw with at least 4 full threads of engagement and you will stiffen up the wishbone enough to stop it breaking at that point no matter how hard you hit it.
The other top tip is to put plastic spacers on the inner hinge pin to pack out the gap between the two lugs on the wishbone which sits on the hinge pin. Again helps make it more robust (a little super glue even more so) and also prevents the hinge pin bending in a mega off.
This last point is over-kill really but if you are worried it's quick and cheap.

I'll hopefully get time to do a setup sheet tonight.

[njc11]

I tried the new RB6 wishbones (UM713B) with the new shock mounting holes for round 1 at the RHR national...(run the inside hole on the 3 hole side) In practice I ran the flat kit arms and although the car felt good, it felt nervous and on edge.. I feel that this is because I run a short rear link to help the car pivot/rotate how I want it..
When I went out for round 1 the car felt a million times better and felt like I could drive it with more confidence. On power over the bumpy stuff felt much more sure footed... I changed a number of other things on the car to compensate running these wishbones knowing the RB6 arms give a lot of mid corner... Rear shock ends, rear springs, RF insert and RR insert to wider also changed the spacers under neath the RF and RR holders..longer rear link also.. I'm running 2 x 1.6 and 2 x 1.7 ... Car was spot on for RD3... And was on for what would have been a 37 in round but got tangled up with a back marker whom I thought was letting me through ended up 46.. Then rd4 had a rain affected run.. Started racing just before we went out.. Qual f10 finished 5thi think.... I will sort out a set up sheet and post but I urge people to try it and let me know what they think!
I have also noticed on kyoshos site that they have an HD chassis coming out and carbon composite front and rear stiffners..

[simonrhart]

Why change the stock arms to RB6 arms in the first place?

This is exactly what I don't want to do, buy a kit (and this kit is the most expensive) to then change parts from other cars i.e. hubs, arms etc. to get it to work.

Interested in hearing why RB6 arms were considered over stock. Roger said he tried then reverted back to stock arms.

How does the car perform out of the box on high-grip carpet/astro for you? seems many have run it on carpet given the winter months - this is not too dissimilar to astro in terms of grip to be honest, so all good.

I am trying to decide whether to buy this or stick with the TLR 22-4 I have. You might of heard, this is what we ended up doing with the TLR 22-4 - changing everything to try and get the car to work on our mega high-bite tracks in the UK when the car was designed for a low-grip surfaces such as clay and dirt. Clay even with sugar added to it will never be as high-bite as carpet or astro turf. I don't know the history of this car where it was designed, if Tebo was one of the main contributors for the design of this car, then perhaps in the US on clay as per the TLR 22-4 ?

Cheers,
Simon

Originally Posted by njc11

I tried the new RB6 wishbones (UM713B) with the new shock mounting holes for round 1 at the RHR national...(run the inside hole on the 3 hole side) In practice I ran the flat kit arms and although the car felt good, it felt nervous and on edge.. I feel that this is because I run a short rear link to help the car pivot/rotate how I want it..
When I went out for round 1 the car felt a million times better and felt like I could drive it with more confidence. On power over the bumpy stuff felt much more sure footed... I changed a number of other things on the car to compensate running these wishbones knowing the RB6 arms give a lot of mid corner... Rear shock ends, rear springs, RF insert and RR insert to wider also changed the spacers under neath the RF and RR holders..longer rear link also.. I'm running 2 x 1.6 and 2 x 1.7 ... Car was spot on for RD3... And was on for what would have been a 37 in round but got tangled up with a back marker whom I thought was letting me through ended up 46.. Then rd4 had a rain affected run.. Started racing just before we went out.. Qual f10 finished 5thi think.... I will sort out a set up sheet and post but I urge people to try it and let me know what they think!
I have also noticed on kyoshos site that they have an HD chassis coming out and carbon composite front and rear stiffners..

[HOTSHOT III]

Originally Posted by njc11

I tried the new RB6 wishbones (UM713B) with the new shock mounting holes for round 1 at the RHR national...(run the inside hole on the 3 hole side) In practice I ran the flat kit arms and although the car felt good, it felt nervous and on edge.. I feel that this is because I run a short rear link to help the car pivot/rotate how I want it..
When I went out for round 1 the car felt a million times better and felt like I could drive it with more confidence. On power over the bumpy stuff felt much more sure footed... I changed a number of other things on the car to compensate running these wishbones knowing the RB6 arms give a lot of mid corner... Rear shock ends, rear springs, RF insert and RR insert to wider also changed the spacers under neath the RF and RR holders..longer rear link also.. I'm running 2 x 1.6 and 2 x 1.7 ... Car was spot on for RD3... And was on for what would have been a 37 in round but got tangled up with a back marker whom I thought was letting me through ended up 46.. Then rd4 had a rain affected run.. Started racing just before we went out.. Qual f10 finished 5thi think.... I will sort out a set up sheet and post but I urge people to try it and let me know what they think!
I have also noticed on kyoshos site that they have an HD chassis coming out and carbon composite front and rear stiffners..

Interesting, can you post up your full setup to show exactly what you did with the rear geometry to accommodate the UM713B wishbones?

I've had a few problems myself with the rear protesting on power over the bumps (particularly on corner exits) but last night at TORCH I tried the 4 dot RF/2 dot RR toe plate mod with the stock arms and that made an immediate improvement but it would be good to try the 713 arms on the car as well.

BTW I run the same f/r shock pistons as you so any info should be valid

[njc11]

My set up sheet is on petit RC let me if its not there..

As I run the RB6 I wanted to try the new arms as I've read others have tried and had positive results from them.. On power mid to exit has made the car much more predictable.. Plenty more things I'd like to try.

Nothing wrong with kit arms at all I tried these with other changes and the car felt better for me.

[RogerM]

Sorry for the delay ...
http://www.petitrc.com/setup/kyosho/...ractionAdvice/

A different approach to Nick's which I will be trying for comparison but I am currently very happy with the ZX6 on high grip.

[simonrhart]

That is really helpful, thanks Roger.

I will order my kit when next in the US in a couple weeks.

Simon

[Hyperstrada]

This weekend was the first round of the North East regionals and RHR was the venue. I'd only had my Lazer ZX6 two weeks before the event and only driven it for one race at a club night on carpet. I must admit though, I wasn't very impressed with it on carpet so
I used Nick Caro's RHR set up for the regional (RB6 rear arms etc) and I thought the car was fantastic, really easy to drive but still pretty quick. Qualified and finished 2nd in the B final which was pretty good for me. Very happy with the car for first time out and there's loads of potential for improvement once I get used to it.
Thanks for the set up and advice Nick!

[simonrhart]

Originally Posted by Hyperstrada

This weekend was the first round of the North East regionals and RHR was the venue. I'd only had my Lazer ZX6 two weeks before the event and only driven it for one race at a club night on carpet. I must admit though, I wasn't very impressed with it on carpet so
I used Nick Caro's RHR set up for the regional (RB6 rear arms etc) and I thought the car was fantastic, really easy to drive but still pretty quick. Qualified and finished 2nd in the B final which was pretty good for me. Very happy with the car for first time out and there's loads of potential for improvement once I get used to it.
Thanks for the set up and advice Nick!

Do you have a link to the setup?

Interesting in how this guy has his motor at the back and almost 50/50 weight distribution: http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...read-image.jpg

And here with a normal size shorty:
http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...read-image.jpg

[jpmatrix]

I have swapped over to the rb6 arms but haven't drilled the 3rd hole yet.

I see most of you guys have drilled out the 3rd hole. Is it necessary to drill it out?

From looking at it, drilling the hole slightly further in on the arm would result in more droop and would make the rear end softer?

James

[Chris Larner]

That's only a 49-51 left to right. The front to back is 45-55 which is quite a big difference.

[njc11]

Originally Posted by jpmatrix

I have swapped over to the rb6 arms but haven't drilled the 3rd hole yet.

I see most of you guys have drilled out the 3rd hole. Is it necessary to drill it out?

From looking at it, drilling the hole slightly further in on the arm would result in more droop and would make the rear end softer?

James

James...

Yes Defo worth drilling.... From memory I think it's 17.8mm from the anti roll bar mount hole..or just buy UM713B... With these arms on and using the new hole use the medium shock ends.

Incidentally the oils are wrong on the set up sheet it should be 40wt front and 35wt rear.

I've used these arms with new hole on the RB6 in conjunction with the front brass suspension holder and the new rear front brass (RF) hinge pin holder...cars really good too

[fil9144]

Originally Posted by njc11

James...

Yes Defo worth drilling.... From memory I think it's 17.8mm from the anti roll bar mount hole..or just buy UM713B... With these arms on and using the new hole use the medium shock ends.

Incidentally the oils are wrong on the set up sheet it should be 40wt front and 35wt rear.

I've used these arms with new hole on the RB6 in conjunction with the front brass suspension holder and the new rear front brass (RF) hinge pin holder...cars really good too

I ran my car at chadderton the final round and must say it felt very easy to drive.i am running shorty and esc/motor to the rear. Really happy with the speed of the car also. I wouldn't say you have to buy anything extra for this car unless you wanted a spine Wieght. I bought few carbon bits also but only because I like the look. I don't think there is a better car and I know they are expensive but like the rb6 I don't think there is a better car

[simonrhart]

Originally Posted by fil9144

I ran my car at chadderton the final round and must say it felt very easy to drive.i am running shorty and esc/motor to the rear. Really happy with the speed of the car also. I wouldn't say you have to buy anything extra for this car unless you wanted a spine Wieght. I bought few carbon bits also but only because I like the look. I don't think there is a better car and I know they are expensive but like the rb6 I don't think there is a better car

I have to say I can't decide between this and the TM4. I like the TM4 perhaps a fraction more because it comes with gear diffs, but I know Kyosho is a very good quality build.