Wheel chair access

[kayce]

Originally Posted by crtpromachine

Firstly the accident did not happen in the pit area and all i was saying is a bit of help advice would have been something but did not get offered anything apart from the racing community itself anyways this is about wheelchair access and not my accident

So you're saying that your receiver pack exploded while your car was "on the track" and you were attending to marshaling duties (which is what track insurance is for)?
Regardless, you turned it into "your accident" by even bringing it up, and suggesting it was anyone's responsibility other than your own.

[kayce]

Originally Posted by jaysllim

Kayce i dont expect anythong of anyone all i was askimg for is help but how u r putting makes me sound like i stamping and kicking my feet because im not getting my own way

Originally Posted by crtpromachine

Could not agree anymore with your post mate and i wish you all the bloody sucess in getting a few more clubs with disabled access and to allow alot more people come racing that are in wheelchairs as there a fair few of you out there

It wasn't my intent to offend you jaysllim, but all I was trying to do was point out the potential pitfalls and unrealistic expectations that come along with any personalized request for accommodation if we all don't look at the entire bigger picture. As you're well aware I'm sure, things as have been requested cost money - and somebody has to pay for it - so at the end of the day if you're suggesting you don't personally, then you're suggesting everyone else should, and that means a drastic increase in entry fees and I'm not sure if that's how to get it done as it will affect the attendance of those with lesser means.

[peetbee]

Personally I don't think that Jayslim was being unrealistic. Without him raising the subject of wanting to race the clubs would be unlikely to change on their own. He's also contacted the BRCA to see what advice and support they could provide, seems reasonable to me.
Now that the clubs are aware, it may well be that nothing can be done straight away or even in the very short term, but it's got us thinking about how they can help.

Neither do I think that Mark was being unreasonable in the support he was requesting at the 8th nationals. The fault there appears to be that he was advised that his requests would be met but were subsequently ignored/not acted upon. If he was advised prior to attending that this would the case the outcome would have been different.

[jaysllim]

Hang im not asking for the clubs to pay because as u can see from the first post i put up i said that i understand that the clubs are non profit organisations and that all members who eun the clubs are volunteers,but its like me saying that we cannot have n e steps to get up on to the rostrums for the able bodied ppl.

Have u read the other post on here marked"wheelchair access for all to see" i should have titled it abit better but basically its a email i had of chris hardisty saying what the clubs can do about this.

In all honesty seeing as ur brothers are unfortunatly in wheelchairs i would have thought u would be some one who would maby be able to help me rather than be against me,because from what i have read and interpreted is that you have pointed out problems willingly but not tried to help us find away around these problems so in order for wheelchair bound ppl will be able to race on equal terms as the other able bodied racers.

With out causing offence as you more than entitled to your opinion but after reading your posts i feel very dishartend about racing and understand why mark rc feels the way he does.

As i said before all i would like to do is go racing and enjoy myself as do everyone else and unfortunatly i have to ask for help not demand or expect it.

[axeman]

where there is a will, there is a way, and a way we will find.

As long as clubs are reading this and thinking of ways wheelchair access will work at there clubs we are moving forwards.

The next time a rostrum or front door step is fixed it may get altered to allow wheelchair access.

small changes make big differences, we all understand one step at a time

[DCM]

Pete is correct, up until now, it hasn't been a positive discrimination by clubs, more the fact that we haven't had to. Now the issue is raised, what clubs are asking for now is how we implement accessibility, and how much will it cost the clubs. Trying to find details on specifications of ramps is hard enough, but knowing where we could probably get help with funding is even harder. James knows the clubs are looking into it, but as been said, it is information the clubs want.

[jaysllim]

thanks guys thats all i have asked for is for you to help us out in this matter if it can be done great if not atleast you tried.

on regards to info i found and then later some one pmd me with the same info that maby sports disability wales could help i think thats what its called or sumit like that as an organisation the clubs could possibly go and ask them for info.

again thank you to all the clubs/wrca/brca who have helped in this matter.thats all i have asked for is for help.

[kayce]

Originally Posted by jaysllim

Hang im not asking for the clubs to pay because as u can see from the first post i put up i said that i understand that the clubs are non profit organisations and that all members who eun the clubs are volunteers,but its like me saying that we cannot have n e steps to get up on to the rostrums for the able bodied ppl.

Have u read the other post on here marked"wheelchair access for all to see" i should have titled it abit better but basically its a email i had of chris hardisty saying what the clubs can do about this.

In all honesty seeing as ur brothers are unfortunatly in wheelchairs i would have thought u would be some one who would maby be able to help me rather than be against me,because from what i have read and interpreted is that you have pointed out problems willingly but not tried to help us find away around these problems so in order for wheelchair bound ppl will be able to race on equal terms as the other able bodied racers.

With out causing offence as you more than entitled to your opinion but after reading your posts i feel very dishartend about racing and understand why mark rc feels the way he does.

As i said before all i would like to do is go racing and enjoy myself as do everyone else and unfortunatly i have to ask for help not demand or expect it.

As I said before it's that I truly do understand and feel for your problems and your dilemma, and I wasn't trying to offend you nor was I saying you should attend rc event. But instead like I said in reference to going to the beach and you should well know, some things are easier said than done.
It's also like I mentioned a racer I know that got himself a "lift chair," in the same way some people have to get powered wheelchairs, as it's done to better enable themselves to get around their own particular handicaps so as to participate in things they enjoy easier. Maybe the first step is for you to look into applying for charitible donations for your local track's needs, and maybe things will be addressed on a national level as time goes on if and when funding for such accommodations becomes available, and perhaps this is your chance to look into these things yourself and become an advocate and fundraiser.
I myself have a bum knee and ankle, and while I get around okay climbing driver rostrums is more of a battle than a chore, and bending down to marshal the cars of the serial-crashers can be troubling. But it is what it is, it's the cost I accept to race, and I guess that's my point. In a righteous world everything would perfect, and you wouldn't be in a wheelchair and I wouldn't be sore the day after. Best of luck to you and don't give up on racing, you would be missed as would anyone.

[jaysllim]

i can see where your coming from kayce but again the whole point of this thread was to come up with answers,as once upon a time i was doing regionals/rrci/nats/8tens.but then i unfortunatly had my accident.but from what im getting from what your saying is that i should stick to club racing as i am not a regular at the other clubs in the welsh,whitch means i cannot do regional championships,but heres the thing the whole point of these threads was to address this situation so i could do regional championships.

how about we look at this another way. the reason the tracks involved in the nats dont have wheelchair access is because in order for you to qualify you have to have a licence whitch means you have to do the f1/2/3/4/5 to get ur licence but geuss wa they dont have wheelchair access because nobody in a wheelchair has done enough regional rounds to qualify because not all the clubs have wheelchair access at there tracks.so it then becomes a vicious circle (by the way thank you to the person who pointed this out to me,no names but you no who u are)

so u see how can this be sorted at a national level before you talk the root of the problem.

in all honesty i could turn round and say its not my problem you guys sort it,but i dont and wont because that gets us no where, so thats why i have started this thread to SOLVE these problems and work with people to find away of sorting these things out.

you say u got a bum knee and ankle and yet you yourself expect the clubs to have stairs for you to get up on the high rostrums because other wise the ppl who could climb up the scaffolding would have an unfair advantage on you because they can see the track better.

so as i say i could say its not my problem but i wont because as i just said it gets us no where so as you would most probably ask for stairs to get up on the high rostrum, i would ask if they could lay abit of boarding if needs be to help me get up on the rostrum.

[kayce]

I understand what you're saying jaysllim, but what I'm asking is how much have you yourself done or looked into it and how much are you expecting others to address for you?

To look at it another way it was like the wheelchair ramp for my brothers into my parents home. They didn't seek out public assistance or for others to do it for them, I designed it and my father and I built it.
And that's where I'm saying that if you got yourself a "lift chair" it seems much of the issue would be resolved.

I do understand your desire to compete in regionals/nationals, but just saying all tracks should become wheelchair friendly is a bit of a stretch of the imagination and where the vicious circle starts. Who's going to pay?
As I also mentioned earlier, there are a lot of liability issues that (as you said) "just laying a bit a boarding" can lead to a lot of other potential problems - that the bcra and clubs wouldn't want to touch with a 10-foot pole; for it's not as simple as that. I wish it was. As someone mentioned earlier, this sort of accessability is strictly regulated and governed by law and somebody would have to pay for the regular inspections. We're not talking about some rinky-dink drivers rostrum, but something else entirely.

Originally Posted by jaysllim

you say u got a bum knee and ankle and yet you yourself expect the clubs to have stairs for you to get up on the high rostrums because other wise the ppl who could climb up the scaffolding would have an unfair advantage on you because they can see the track better.

Frankly, able-bodied or not, I'm not going to risk life and limb climbing up and down some rickety scaffolding just to get a better view. I'd rather stand on the ground.

But, back to subject, if it is your desire to make more tracks accessible, instead of talking about it here and leaving all the heavy-lifting to others, that's where I was suggesting you becoming an advocate and taking a forefront to seeking charitable donations and other funding to see your dream come true. Otherwise all it does is become a vicious circle of just talking about it - because clubs can afford it, brca can't afford it without drastically increasing entry fees (which then affects the lesser funded racers) - so maybe it's time for you to start thinking outside the box and coming up with some ideas to get it funded by outside sources. Then when you have prospectuses in place, and things lined up, something has a chance of actually getting done.
Good luck and best wishes in your endeavors.

[DCM]

I don't think Jay is expecting ALL clubs to be disabled friendly, but then, in the UK, you must make venues just that.

[dick don]

Got to be honest here Jay you keep shouting for this and the brca have to tell clubs they need wheelchair access which will cost £2500 for instance don't think there will be a lot of clubs for anyone to race at. What if all the clubs agreed to put a ramp in place (as i'm sure if we had to no one would question it) just to please one or two people and the next year they stopped racing, what happens then?
I know where your coming from mate but in this sport if you can't do it you can't do it.
On the other hand you come to Swansea and i'll throw you over one shoulder and the wheelchair on the other and up on the rostrum we go and we'll see you race, problem solved. I'd even do the mashalling for you or anyone in the same predicament.
Not trying to alienate disabled people from our sport but there are some things i would not even concider doing myself as i just can't do them.
This sounds so wrong but i mean in in the right way.
Have to agree with Kayce on all his points.

[kayce]

Originally Posted by DCM

I don't think Jay is expecting ALL clubs to be disabled friendly, but then, in the UK, you must make venues just that.

Could you please give a direct quote, or link, to the legislation regarding that specifically?

[jaysllim]

Hang on what u havent realised is that at the club there is another person in a wheelchair im not doing this for my self im doing it for all wheelchair users and unfortunatly u wernt involved in the conversations outside of oople.at end of the day im not thw only wheelchair bound racer, and i have looked into funding and so forth if you scroll up i mention disability sports wales qitch shows i have looked into of my own back, so unfortunatly u r talking about somit that u havent been involved from the start. So a raising wheelchair would be fine for me but what about the other wheelchair user at our ?whats he going to do?

I have to admit u have really wound me up because ur making out like im laying the problem at the clubs feet.and to be honest all the welsh clubs are looking into it,i dont no what club u race but the clubs i race at are all trying to help.

And again have u read the other thread on here about this issue were there is an email from chris hardisty?

as u say ur mum and dad took it upon them selfs to fit a ramp to your house,but its not a public buildi ng and at if u wana get,funny about it y should i stump the costs? U lot get a set of steps made out of wood so why cant we have a ramp.

Do u race in the welsh series?

I have to admit i feel angry/frustrated/alienated and depressed that you have commented on this matter because u have not helped in this situtation one bit.so thank u for maakin» me feel more of an outcast than i already felt!!!!

[jaysllim]

U no wat im just guna delete the thread because at end of the day my life is hard enough to deal with without u guys putting me down.

Thanks a bunch

[dick don]

If your refering to me Jay i've been following from the start. And yes if two or more turned up then i would apply the same treatment. The only reason i mentioned it was as an idea, seen it at the neo mate and just thought its a solution to a problem. Sorry if i offended you fella, as said it don't sound right but then most things i say offend people, not the intention.

[crtpromachine]

Jay please do not feel that you are or have been any of these;

angry/frustrated/alienated and depressed ,an outcast

As i have known you for many years before things went tits up for you mate and also still know you as you are today ;

I feel very sad by the whole thing and all you want to do is get back out and do the hobby that you most enjoyed doing i am very lucky in that respect as i can go out its not easy as i do struggle alot but i still can get out and do my hobby;


I just hope that a few clubs will read this and see if they can get any help of the BRCA or any sport trust that could help finance getting a wheelchair access to some clubs.This will enable clubs to get a wheelchair access and hopefuly be funded so the clubs would not have to take there bit of revenue they get to provide anything towards the wheelchair access .How nice would this be if we could get a few clubs and get a funding to help provide this

As i am sure a few more wheelchair bound people would also get the benefits from doing this

There are a few people in wheelchairs that gave up this hobby due to lack of wheelchair access to the hobby they loved doing and getting involved in .

This will enable you to get back in to something that you love doing

I have got this on my agenda for a meeting to be discussed very soon and i will discuss this matter to the club involved and see what we can come back with

[jaysllim]

Im peeved at kayce not u don didnt even see ur message until now, does tha mean i wont b able to race at ur regional then dom?(not being sarccy just asking)

[kayce]

Originally Posted by jaysllim

I have to admit i feel angry/frustrated/alienated and depressed that you have commented on this matter because u have not helped in this situtation one bit.so thank u for maakin» me feel more of an outcast than i already felt!!!!

U no wat im just guna delete the thread because at end of the day my life is hard enough to deal with without u guys putting me down.

Thanks a bunch

U lot get a set of steps made out of wood so why cant we have a ramp.

In fact I have offered several suggestions, but it appears you have chosen to overlook them entirely. But that's your choice.
I didn't post here to offend you, or put you down, or make you feel like an outcast, but instead after reading through two different threads about this was just trying to point out the pitfalls of oversimplying something that is very complex and not as easy to do as some would sugggest. I've been dealing with disability concerns and issues for decades, so I know a thing or two about it.

You keep mentioning steps, the steps that get used by dozens/hundreds/thousands, and yet you're expecting everyone to donate for a ramp (that odds are would cost more than the rostrum itself) for just yourself doesn't tell me you're thinking clearly about it.
It's fine to be peeved at your disability, but don't be peeved at me for being the messenger of the reality of the situation.


I'm going to bow out now as I've belabored this long enough. Good luck and best wishes in your endeavors.

[dick don]

You know your welcome at Swansea wheelchair or not, we don't have ramp atm so i was just thinking of getting you up there racing mate without it costing the club anymore money than this needs to.
This has probably been covered many time before over the years of rc but i feel it gets quietly covered over as soon as it can so no one has to do anything about it.