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#62
31-01-2014
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another pennyworth of thoughts in the debate.
Good discussions - Regarding Ride Height issue, Damage to the Carpet is more likely to be caused by cars cartwheeling and screw ends digging in - Shock tower bolts or axle stubs with exposed thread ends for example. The chassis on most if not all cars are flat and to tear a carpet it needs a sharp edge to cut in.
Scrutineering may be helpful - problem is who will do it  Regarding track layout its easy to criticise, but when members have been asked to suggest layout - little forthcoming.  Driver etiquette is a constant issue that pre-race briefing tries to address, safe and considerate driving is the motto that some tend to forget once the red mist of speed takes over, although breaking the car because of hitting the barrier, usually at the end of the long straight is a self imposed penalty  I remember coming home from a meeting in Blackburn cheesed off with some of the demolition derby driving that went on that day, only to watch Formula 1 drivers banging into each other on the tele.  felt better after that  I like the Juniors Star Chart Series where youngsters get certificates of achievement as their driving skills gain more laps and not just win. Big Thank you to Janice  for taking the time to chart their progress.Over all Ribble must be doing something right to be a successful, well attended club over the years. 
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#63
31-01-2014
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Brilliant comment about ride height, I'd not even considered it and you're right, its a lot more likely to be a crashing car, with shock tower bolts or something causing damage rather than a car bottoming out.
The only time that wouldn't be the case would be if a screw has worked loose. Maybe we don't have an issue after all? Again we need to remember, Ribble is a fun club not aimed at top competition. Yes, as Mark said, people go to race but primarily they go to have an enjoyable evening. That follows into what Morpheus says about Janice doing a great job for the kids. I've told Nathan about the certificates he can get, I think he's more excited about them than the actual racing, especially when he understood he didn't have to win to get them, just complete the benchmark number of laps. I think its a great concept and hope its continued.
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#64
03-02-2014
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Not a driver so no real input to some of the discussion but I do have a few questions, which you may also want to consider when putting any proposals to the AGM:
1. For the fun drivers who will help them with ride height, tyres or any other stipulations we make. Many juniors come with a parent who has no experience of racing and certainly won't have a whole load of RC stuff which many of you guys have collected over time. 2. Who would scrutineer to make sure that the cars are as stipulated? 3. If we restrict the number of drivers in each heat, are people prepared to turn up and not be able to race because we've already filled all the heats? Janice
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#65
03-02-2014
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Quote:
8 in a race is what we run anyway so not sure there is any need to turn people away. Perhaps you could run 10 in the gt12 class due to the smaller scale?
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#67
03-02-2014
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Perhaps make it pre booking only then and have it all set up ready to go during the busy period - track is usually finished by 7ish so you could take half hour or so back there. You could adjust this when the outdoor season starts
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#68
04-02-2014
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Morning All,
I've a few points starting with where is this astro going to go? We don't really have the space to extend the track. The second is beginners could be put off by multi surface and jumps. They want to learn and develop car control to get round the track without crashing. They aren't, at this stage anyway, interested in learning to fly doubles. Last point, Why would astro mean the end of foams? Foams work reasonably well on astro, a chap at SRCC sometimes runs foams at their outdoor track. All a racer will do is look to see which gives the best lap time. If 80 or 90% of the track is flat carpet, cars will still be at min ride height, very firm and on the best tyre for the majority of the track. Final last point, I promise. As Janice said, the core of the club want to turn up and race in a fun, family environment. They don't want to worry about conforming to rules and specifications. If I'm wrong and they do, why not enforce the BRCA lipo and motor lists? That way we could turn most people away and ruin the club very quickly because it seems to me that's what this and most of the other ill conceived and self serving suggestions will do. RVRCCC is a great fun club which works. Tinker with the fringe things if you want, any chance of bottles instead of cans in the tuck shop please and maybe add or reduce 20p to a transponder rental but please guys, lets all realise what this very successful club is about and leave the core framework alone.
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#69
04-02-2014
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Quote:
Andy, Your missing the point and continuing to carry on posting on the other thread when you have been asked not to do so - These are very simple rules that you should be able to comply with "Keep the proposals short and to the point and no long discussions" - For clarity this means stop posting on the other thread now youve had your say. With regards your above post 1) the extra carpet (or as we are suggesting Astro) already has committe approval from last year, so space must not be an issue. 2) The youngsters actually perform better over the jumps - if you paid attention to what happened last year, when I altered the hump back jump they actually loved it and, performed much better, breakages and crashes wherre substantially reduced. 3) Yes foams will work on short pile astro - again read the previous posts where we are suggesting long pile astro and more jumps - You will naturally have to raise ride height then to accomodate the jumps and you will find there is little difference in performace of the two types of tyre then - Oh and for clarity I dont buy the foams are substantially cheeper arguement because as previously said they chunk, you need attitive - its more difficult for the youngsters as, you have to be in the know to be able to buy a set. 4) Most youngsters buy a ready to run kit off the shelf which is usually pre-built to Off Road buggy spec - so there ride height will be more in tune with the suitibly altered track. - If they want to learn in a on road flat track environment then buy a GT12 not a Off Road Buggy (The clues in the name) 5) with regards Fringe things - I consider the above to be Fringe things without altering the make up of the club - we all love the family atmosphere of the club and the excellent manner in which its run 6) Who mentioned running to BRCA Rules - again read the proposals - the worst it means is that someone checks the ride heights and tyre type, which will only take checking for a month or so before all you will need are spot checks. Now I suggest we leave it there for others to have there say - you might even find some others agree with you and dont want any change - but carrying on forcing your point is loosing your argument credibility.
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#70
04-02-2014
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I must have missed something on the other thread. Can't find where I was asked not to post?
Never mind. On this thread we've got 4 pages of great discussion, thoughts and ideas, with for's and againsts being aired. I can't see any problem with that. The reason I keep posting is to ask how these ideas are going to work. Its no good to simply say I think we should have this and offer no suggestion as to why or how. Astro for example. I've asked numerous times, with the pits packed and can't be relocated or pushed back where is this extra track going to go? How much of the track will this affect? Where will it be stored because trust me, long pile astro is very heavy. If it was approved at last years meeting why hasn't it happened. I suspect because its in the file marked "to hard to do". We have a growing GT12 section, I assume they aren't going to like having a smaller track? All manor of things have been mentioned, Jumps, who'll build them and where will we put them? How will the tracks be altered to ensure visibility around the jumps. Again how will the mardaves cope and if they're going to be removed every time who's going to do it. So if we're going to post suggestions is it to much to ask for some explanation?
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#71
04-02-2014
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Newbies 10pence worth
I ran for the first time in three years last week and had a brilliant time, the club is run very well and also very friendly so hats off to you all for that I also had loads of fun on rubber tyres so I will stick with them for now. Iv always hated foams for buggy's but that is just my opinion.
As for the track if you could gain more room then it would be great but for the room there was on Friday I think it was pretty damn good. Bigger tracks with jumps and off road sections are all well and good but it has to be set up and put away afterwards so its a trade off. The main thing is from my point of view is that it remains good fun racing so if any changes are to be made i would say nothing major.
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#72
04-02-2014
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I've re-read your post and I can't do as you suggest and leave it. Sorry.
1) the extra carpet (or as we are suggesting Astro) already has committe approval from last year, so space must not be an issue. Already answered really. I've known this committee for a long time and if it hasn't happened its because they've tried and it isn't possible without to much disruption. 2) The youngsters actually perform better over the jumps - if you paid attention to what happened last year, when I altered the hump back jump they actually loved it and, performed much better, breakages and crashes wherre substantially reduced. Youngsters love jumps, we agree. But I keep marshalling those jumps and most of the crashes happen when they try to get over fairly simple jumps. We don't need to make it harder by adding more. When you altered the jump you took away the steep attack angle which reduced the breakages, so well done for that, but it didn't reduce the number of rolls, bobbles and crashes that all require marshalling. 3) Yes foams will work on short pile astro - again read the previous posts where we are suggesting long pile astro and more jumps - You will naturally have to raise ride height then to accomodate the jumps and you will find there is little difference in performace of the two types of tyre then - Oh and for clarity I dont buy the foams are substantially cheeper arguement because as previously said they chunk, you need attitive - its more difficult for the youngsters as, you have to be in the know to be able to buy a set. Asked and answered. To be honest I don't like foams either but they perform great and save a fortune. Foams can be repaired if you chunk them and an £8 bottle of additive will last 12 months. Many people have posted where to get them so I don't understand "being in the know". Add up a set of wheels, inserts and tyres each meeting. Then you'll see the savings. 4) Most youngsters buy a ready to run kit off the shelf which is usually pre-built to Off Road buggy spec - so there ride height will be more in tune with the suitibly altered track. - If they want to learn in a on road flat track environment then buy a GT12 not a Off Road Buggy (The clues in the name) I agree with your first comment but so what. A beginner going to be roughly the same no matter what they drive and the state of the set up, within reason. Also they are learning in an on road environment. The reason they don't buy a GT12 is because they want to play with them outside. I understand that, who doesn't love taking a 2wd buggy on some waste ground doing some donuts  The off road buggy comment I wanted to answer separately with a thought about this years North West BRCA regionals. Two 8th tracks are on the calendar and some people seem not to be happy saying the tracks are to rough for 10th scale. Well its off road so what's the problem? Maybe that's too off road? My view is these are racing buggies and provided we're racing, I'm happy. 5) with regards Fringe things - I consider the above to be Fringe things without altering the make up of the club - we all love the family atmosphere of the club and the excellent manner in which its run We're together in our views of the atmosphere of the club and the running of it. Where we come a part is our views on what's a major or minor change. The track, introducing checks and changing what people buy, or how much they buy is heading towards major. 6) Who mentioned running to BRCA Rules - again read the proposals - the worst it means is that someone checks the ride heights and tyre type, which will only take checking for a month or so before all you will need are spot checks. The BRCA rules was a tongue in cheek comment. I agree with you about needing to enforce rules if we have them. What I'm concerned about is how far does that end up going. The point of this thread is to look at what we have and ideas for change. All things need to change but not for the sake of it. My posts are only one mans opinion so aren't right or wrong, same as anything posted on here. If you agree, say why. Same if you disagree or if you've got ideas which haven't been posted. All this is coming down to one thing, the AGM. I've been to AGM's before. Ones for Ribble and other clubs, the format is always the same. A full agenda with not enough time so what happens is a brief 5 minute discussion then a vote. So the unofficial place for debates and airing views is forums. This forum thread in fact so I apologise for bringing that to the other thread but lets carry on thinking and posting.
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#73
04-02-2014
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[QUOTE=rallymaddaz;835560]Andy,
Oh and for clarity I dont buy the foams are substantially cheeper arguement because as previously said they chunk, you need attitive - its more difficult for the youngsters as, you have to be in the know to be able to buy a set. QUOTE] Really!!!! I have been back racing since this time last year and am on my SECOND set of foams! so thats a years racing for approx 30 quid! If we are being picky add 8 quid for the additive. Still cheaper than pins any day of the week. And as far as being in the know to buy them I am sure that small company called shumacher racing may sell them. Also people are putting additive on rubber tyres so that cost will stay the same. I am not trying to put down peoples opinion but the above comment just seems untrue. Just to also clarify I havent trued up the foams before using them and for my first set didnt remove the belts from the wheel either. The club are also working on making foams more readily avaliable to club racers and I am sure the guy from ross models would be happy to sort people out with a set if asked. Just a thought  I do understand why some people want to get rid of foams but I am not convinced it will make racing any better.
__________________
Yokomo BMAX-2mr 2nd is 1st placed loser!!
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#74
04-02-2014
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[QUOTE=MattK;835614]
Quote:
Matt You missed at least three months worth of racing last year - I'm on my forth set of foams since June last year and I don't go all that often - the point is you can't buy a set off the shelf ready to run as per the rubber tyres therefore you are disadvantaging those that 1) don't know where to get the foams from 2) don't know how to prepare there wheels to take them 3) don't have the facility to install them How is that racing for fun and fair for all - don't get me wrong I like the feel of driving on foams but it's not equal for all and as such should be reviewed. Chris has used one set of rubber tyres on his daughters car since august and they are still going strong. Oh and out of interest I've used both yellow and blue pins and providing the tarp is not in the course there is no difference in lap time but a huge difference in wear rate.
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#75
04-02-2014
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i think this is getting a little bit distorted and largely by one person, i wont name names but its andy
 , all people have been asking for is a more off road enviroment for lack of a better word. There is room for a bit of extra track and i will discuss this with the committee hopfully on friday night rather than adding another subject on here to get moaned about. as far as extra features go and building them i have already said to eric im more than happy to get stuck in and help out. At the end of the day people want to race off road cars on an off road track at their local club not at another club on another day .... oh im probably on my 10th set of foams in under a year
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#76
04-02-2014
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I did miss some racing but still did about 9months on one set, but was 2wd and they were kamtec foams not contact so maybe a difference there.
It does seem to me that the top racers in the club (so me defiantly not included) don't want foams. So would it not be better for those to run pins rather than banning foams? Most people will copy the top racers anyway. That way there will be no issue those that don't like foams will be pure racing off road cars and those that do can carry on. I like the other ideas people are suggesting, but a ban on foams is not a good idea, if they are that bad and expensive and not much different to pins you don't need to run them. If we ban foams there will be something else that creates a problem instead like wing size or motor power or type of deodorant you wear. There will always be something! Fact.
__________________
Yokomo BMAX-2mr 2nd is 1st placed loser!!
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#77
04-02-2014
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Thanks Steve, its good to be credited with provoking creativity and ideas
Foams, love em or hate em, Rally makes a good point about mounting a set first time. Thinking back to when I first did it, aged 12, I got glue everywhere. All over my bedroom carpet, my parents went booloo. Anyway to the point. If anyone wants some advice how to mount foams, plenty of people at the club have this knowledge, the mardave guys for sure, all you have to do is ask. Anyone can come and ask me, I'll show you. If you're running 12mm hex or AE wheels and ask me in advance, I'll bring my truer.
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#78
04-02-2014
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[/QUOTE]At the end of the day, i think the way the club operates works extremely well and should continue. If a driver wants more than the club can cater for then there are two options, respect the club for what it is, or, get more competitive buggy racing elsewhere.
A great debate but not everyone can be pleased in a hobby that accepts all abilities on the same playing field. Great work RVRCCC [/QUOTE]Think this sums it up very well for me. The club has regulars who have come for years, is great at encouaging youngsters, is very friendly and one of our biggest problems is the distinct possibility of having to turn racers away! It must be doing something very right. Not saying we shouldn't look for improvements, but I just hope we get things in context
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#79
04-02-2014
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Sorry couldn't resist, although i recognise I risk extending the debate
 I wasn't too happy when the switch to foams happened. I held out as long as possible, but succumbed in the end. I now have very mixed feelings about the thought of being forced to go back to pins. I also honestly found it very easy to buy them once I found out what they were called. My own experience has been they have really saved me a lot of money. Ran the first set on the b44 since foams kicked off. Whats that, nearly a year? I only swapped them last week. Only used one additive stick in that time too. Never chunked or had to repair (touch wood). Anyway, just thought i would share my experience.
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#80
04-02-2014
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Not sure what is happening to your foams but Im on my original sets on both my 2wd & 4wd buggies which can be used upto 3 times a week, and have been for the last 2 years. If it was decided to ban the use of foams then unfortunately this would be the last winter we race here, it would just be to expensive for tyres on top of the fuel costs.
Things seem good at the club! No point rocking the boat just for the sake of it. Unless it was for wider lanes lol
__________________
Antony Washington Furness Radio Car Club - Chairman MB Models Team Driver KF, XB4 2014
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