13.5 v 17.5 Brushless in GT12 - The debate part 2...

[bedsrcmcc]

OK, so as a Club organiser, I always offer a warm welcome to fellow RC racers from other clubs and we have quite a few members who race at more than one club in the region and having spoken to some of those clubs over the past few days we are all in the same position right now about the Production Cup v Super Cup Classes that the BRCA have now passed in the GT12 class, as voted and put forward by it's membership.

So the question is, what will club's be doing to introduce the two classes, if they do at all! We are stuck between a rock and a hard place as many of us are trying to help beginners and those who find handling a 13.5 too much in GT12 but are they really going to be going out and buying a 17.5 Brushless?

Well you could say that they'd save in the long term from all the breakages and chunked tyres, but they won't see it that way

If this class was starting from scratch then we wouldn't have a problem, but with so many racers with a 13.5 stuck in the back of the car we are left wondering in the Production Class is even worth having!

It would be great if all clubs agreed to a single set of rules and stood by it over a set period to introduce it but I cant see that ever happening.

I'd be really interested in hearing from other club officials to see what others will be doing to try and introduce the 'slower' class into the GT12 class over the coming 12 months it at all...

I think the only thing we can do as a club is enforce those who can't handle the speed to turn down the throttle by at least 80% if not more and continue to educate and promote clean driving, that way if they do improve they can turn the speed up without having the burden of paying for a new motor.

The thinking behind the introduction of the Production Cup Class I'm sure was all very good, but in practice I don't see it lasting more than 12 months with it being dropped at next years AGM.

Over to all fellow club organisers - what's your thoughts?

[RobChalmers]

Hi mate,

While I'm not a club official, I do get to go to a few different club nights around the place and see different rules and approaches. After reading this and your other thread on the pace of trechnology, I've got to say I'm onboard with your thinking. But I have a suggestion, a cheap one which I don't think anyone else seems to have suggested.

in Karting we have spec gearing. and maybe that might be a cheap way for clubs to bring down speeds yet keep the overall spec in line with a regional/national car that would allow drivers to progress. If it works there then maybe it can be put forward in the next years EGM.

Maybe either limit the whole Production Cup or just your F3's(or equivilent) and call it something snappy PC(25:70) or F3(22/68) - gear as appropriate. Yes you still have the roll out difference in the tyres but its still a simple and cheap (just over a tenner) way of controlling speeds even of a 13.5t. Then by the time someone feels brave enough to go off to a regional they'll probably be able to handle stepping up a few teeth.

To me as an outsider looking into GT12 as a second(third,fourth,fifth class) having a full spec GT12 Super cup car 'just with a 17.5t' doesn't seem like much of beginners or entry level class, its more of an intermediate step just before Super Cup. But thats a different discussion, maybe for your other thread

p.s. I think the sport pack waiver is a great idea BTW

[SlowOne]

Scott, I think you are worrying unnecessarily here. The object of the exercise is to slow down the new drivers so they have fun, but don't wreck their cars. Whether you do that but turning their throttles down, or enforcing a lower gearing, it doesn't really matter.

I doubt we will junk the ProductionCup. If no one uses it now, that doesn't mean it won't be used ever. Most people buy a GT12 and a diff anyway, so then it is just a case of what motor they run.

Have you thought of doing a rental deal for the new drivers? You can get some pretty cheap 17.5 motors now, so if the Club invested in them and then rented them out to drivers for a couple of quid a night, that would soon pay for them.

That way it is even better for new drivers - they don't get to shell out for a motor at all, and once they do they can decide which one it is. With the long life of BL motors these days, and the lack of maintenance needs, I wonder if you and considered a double helping of cost saving for your new drivers this way - no motor to buy and a slower car reducing damage to tyres and bodies? (I also think if you decided to do this and approached a friendly shop or distributor, you could get some discount for a bulk buy.)

Lastly, fixed gear ratios - not viable with foam tyres. To get a fixed ratio needs a fixed tyre diameter. Those able to afford to buy a new set of tyres for each meeting will have the tallest gear ratio and the fastest car. Fixed ratios work if the tyre has a fixed diameter, like rubber tyres in TC and karts! HTH

[mark christopher]

Think Pete's covered most of it, tyre chunking is caused by bad prep and hitting things, which will happen irispective of motor.
The previous years no one ran production cup in its old form, its there if some one wants to, racers may choose not to,
Pete explained why fixed gearing does not work on foam tyres.

You do make me laugh tho, you slated the brca for not doing something, until I pointed out they had done some thing, now your questioning if its a pointless exercise?

[SLEENAD]

I might be opening a can of worms here, but I'm puzzled why racers haven't asked for rubber tyres that fit the supastox/mardaves?

IMHO it would certainly help in keeping the cost down for beginning racers, and make life a little easier aswell.

- no tyre trueing, hence no tyre truer needed, and not to much prepping
- tyres have a longer lifespan
- no chunking
- since the diameter stays somewhat constant, not many spurs/pinions needed
- maybe a little less grip, but that also reduces speed, so impact speeds are lower and chances of axle bending and other significant damage is less likely to happen

Furthermore, stop the discussions about what motor to buy! No beginner notices the differences between the "pro top motors" and the cheap red ones that can be bought for two tenners at the king of our hobby. Reliability issues? N O. And even if there were some, you still have enough left over for 2 more motors.

Just my 2 eurocents.
Rambling over.

[RobChalmers]

[The Dark Knight]

I agree with SLEENAD, rubber tyres would be a good way to go. GT12 is meant to be a fun and low cost class. Start adding things like a tyre truer etc, bumps up the cost.