210 vs 410 Build Quality

[dpackster1980]

I've just finished building a 210 this week and recently sold a X6 to subsidize the purchase and to be honest.I wish I kept the X6!

I've built a 410 previously. During the 210 build I noticed the following issues that leave me disappointed.

1) Shock seal caps - On the 210 they are plastic, they leak and they strip. On the 410 they are alloy even on the R version and dont leak!
2) Upper shock mounts - On the 210 they are plastic which allows flex. On the 410 they are steel which doesn't.
3) Rear wishbone slop - On the 210 there is loads, I had to use an Associated hub spacer to get rid of it. On the 410 everything is as tight as a button.
4) Plastic hexes - The squash and pinch the bearings, so I bought alloy ones straight away.
5) Instruction Manual - On the 210 they insist in putting in the one with errors in it and haven't bothered to revise it. On the 410 its fine.

It seems since the takeover they are cutting costs at the expense of performance. I my eyes that is worrying especially for future releases. The 210 isn't a patch on the 410R which I have in terms of quality and build satisfaction!

Performance is good but due to the build its left a sour taste in my mouth. I wish I got a Cougar SV because to get it to a reasonable level I'd end up spending the same money and its all in one box.

[Robocop]

Like you i had a 210 got rid of my 22 which i was really happy with.And i thought also the 210 was poor quality chassis sides did not line up with chassis parts missing,diff problems, droop screws that was inacessable in mid motor

[Andrew Twigger]

Originally Posted by Robocop

... droop screws that was inacessable in mid motor

The droop screws have heads both top and bottom and so can be accessed from either side...invalid argument IMO.

[t8rtot]

Its a catch 22, do you want to pay 350 for a buggy or still have a great preforming car that needs a little extra shimming (AE and Losi) have figured this out

[jkclifford]

what a load of bollox.

My210 was out the first batch, and still all stock, original towers nothing has been changed except springs. Ally or plastic caps won't make a differnce, its the way the are built, and they don't strip themselves out.

the plasric hexes have a flange which touches the inner race, how tight are you doing the wheels up to warp it so much it touches the outer race?

Flex on the upper shock mount, if you can notice that then you must be the best driver on here.

[DCM]

Not being funny, but the 210 is one of the cheapest race spec kits out there, so you will have to excuse them for not including carbon and alloy everywhere. Considering you get 2 gearbox cases and everything to build it up in mid-rear, 3-4 gear configurations plus inserts for geometry!!

If you compare the cost to even a Cougar SV/SV2 it is silly cheap let alone a C4.1

[dpackster1980]

Originally Posted by jkclifford

what a load of bollox.

My210 was out the first batch, and still all stock, original towers nothing has been changed except springs. Ally or plastic caps won't make a differnce, its the way the are built, and they don't strip themselves out.

the plasric hexes have a flange which touches the inner race, how tight are you doing the wheels up to warp it so much it touches the outer race?

Flex on the upper shock mount, if you can notice that then you must be the best driver on here.

The flange eventually squashes over time causing the hex to rub on the hub!

As for the plastic shock stand off they are useless, eventually the long screw will bent over time just like all manufacturers that use this method. The Steel ones do not bend it wouldn't cost them much to shove these in the kit as well.

Plastic caps do leak more than the alloy ones, fact! You build the shocks and notice the caps are slightly wet you tighten them a like more and find that they strip. It would have added probably £4 to a kit to put the alloy ones in!

3/4mm worth of wishbone slop acceptable? Not in my eyes especially for the pedigree this buggy is claimed to be, it might be for others.

Did I say I was a good driver, no. I've been racing and building cars for 17 years plus currently F2 and race at the Nationals so over the years you know what's a good kit and what's a bad one!

I was questioning the quality between the 210 and 410 if you read my post. IMO they've dropped the ball on the 210 and clearly have tried to squeeze every penny out of it. I'd pay slightly more for the kit if it had the extras and would've enjoyed the build more.

Performance is fine but the puild is very poor at best.

[dpackster1980]

Originally Posted by jkclifford

what a load of bollox.

My210 was out the first batch, and still all stock, original towers nothing has been changed except springs. Ally or plastic caps won't make a differnce, its the way the are built, and they don't strip themselves out.

the plasric hexes have a flange which touches the inner race, how tight are you doing the wheels up to warp it so much it touches the outer race?

Flex on the upper shock mount, if you can notice that then you must be the best driver on here.

I'd rather have quality not quantity! The 3 things I mentioned would've cost Durango less then £10 to put in per kit and then it would've been excellent value for money. Instead the money just lines the new owners pockets which takes away form what Durango was originally.

[chrispattinson]

The OP has made a great point. On Sunday, I had a look at his 210, and the spec of the kit is much lower than on the 410.

I think the expectation may be too much, from a company that set the bar high with the original 410 cars, and is now producing cheaper lower spec kits.

Regarding the plastic hexes, you should have confidence in tightening a wheel up all the way without it squashing, unless a torque wrench is supplied?

Unfortunately, £10 per kit may not seem a lot to you, but it will make a lot of difference to Durango on the volume of kits produced.

I'd also like to add that David knows how to build a car, from his time spent racing, and the time he spends preparing his cars (just ask his wife).

Anyway, let's not get tied up too much in the specifics, and congratulate David on posting a sensible post on Oople for a change

[mattr]

I'd have to agree generally, i have a DEX410R and a 2010Spec, and even the 410R has a better fit and finish than the DEX210 (which looking at it, should *really* be an R as well, it has more in common than the 410R than the non-R version, lots more plastic than i'd expect.)

Specifically.
1) They don't leak, the seals, seal once you get to finger tight, difference between plastic and aluminium is negligible. In fact, as far as i can tell, the cap bottoms out. Tightening it further won't help, something else is wrong if it still leaks noticeably. (I have broken one crashing tho, will replace eventually.)
2) Upper shock mounts - yeah, i'll give you that, i swapped to steel mounts before i'd even finished building it, the plastic ones are a pain to adjust too.
3) Rear wishbone slop - i have slop on all three cars, so i used an extra shim where needed, 0,25mm IIRC. Going to a 0,5mm made them bind. So not a huge issue, there was FAR more slop on my B4.1.
4) Plastic hexes - Should last several weeks, if not months, but yes, they will eventually
5) Instruction Manual - Nah, there are errors in both the 410R and the 2010 manuals i have.

Still very happy with it, makes my B4.1 look like Fred Flintstones RC car.

[Si Coe]

I do think its more of an issue of 'Compared to the 410' than absolute quality.

A few things to note:

1) The shock standoffs - yes they are plastic, yes the steel is better, but look at most other models and you'll see they use a screw and a plastic standoff. Its a lot cheaper and simpler than the custom made steel part. If the steel part was never offered, you'd have never known!

2) Ditto the plastic shock bottoms. They don't leak (well none I've seen do at least) unless they are faulty (and you can get faulty alloy ones too) and again are quite normal on many other brands. You've been spoiled by the previous Durango ones.

3) Plastic hexes - these are no worse than you get with pin fit wheels in general. Actually I converted my 210 to pin fit anyway and I'd rather that than alloy hexes.

What Durango have been doing is gradually paring down the bling compared to the original 410, with the view that if performance doesn't suffer but the price is reduced this is a good thing. However it seems that has alienated some of the target market.
I notice that there is a new non-R version of the 410 Short course, precisely as people demanded a full option version. Ditto I reckon the current 210 should be designated an R and a full fat version sold. But that might hurt sales as people will assume you have to buy the pricey version

[cmgreen]

On a more positive note, the cougar SV2 is mint, build quality is quality!

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by cmgreen

On a more positive note, the cougar SV2 is mint, build quality is quality!

Plus 1

[rcjunky]

Why is everyne hating on Great Planes buying Durango and saying that is why the quality is lower? The DEX210 was released and sold before the company was sold... So far I like my car and have had no issues.

[av4625]

Originally Posted by Si Coe

If the steel part was never offered, you'd have never known!

Thats not the point people bought these cars because they wer better had nicer parts had more bling watever we bought them because of the custom parts etc

[mattr]

Originally Posted by rcjunky

Why is everyne hating on Great Planes buying Durango and saying that is why the quality is lower? The DEX210 was released and sold before the company was sold... So far I like my car and have had no issues.

Not from me. Its that the 210 is more of a 210R when compared to the differences between 410/410R.

Maybe you'd be happy buying a BMW M-sport car and finding its got steel rims, cloth interior and grey plastic bumpers.

[jkclifford]

So it would be better if the complete car was ally and carbon. For £350

Rear hubs with 0' toe c hubs with no set castor, front Hubs with no trailing adjustment rear wishbone holders with no anti squat, all made out if ally.

So out the box it looks the nuts but performace is down ands needs tweaking, Then get charged ££ for rear hubs with some toe in, ££ for wishbone hangers with anti squat, £££ more or less castor.

And of course after having the originaly ally parts you couldn't degrade youself and put plastic parts on, have to be ally ones.


the insert system is just amazing, how many times have parts been bought tried then slung in the box cos they wre no better or worse?!

Race performace 1st looks 2nd.

[AfroP]

I'd have to agree with the OP and others on here

For a supposed high end kit there are plenty of issues with it.

The manual is the worst part, as somebody who isn't as experienced as most on here I found the manual very confusing as it lists part numbers for sections of the build that are incorrect, I managed to get through the build alright without issue and then I printed off the online manual. Neither of which make any mention at all of attaching the rear bumper in MM config.
A better explanation in the manual of how to build the diff would have been a massive benefit, had I not watched the video online, I would never have realised that the circlip has a flat and a rounded side or that the thrust race has 2 different thickness of washer.

The lack of alloy hexes, to me is simply a money maker on Durango's behalf. The alloy hexes were a fairly recent addition to the product line so they left them out of the kit knowing it would become an essential upgrade for the kit.

Plastic shock caps, shock ends and limiters on big bore shocks is major let down, as are the plastic shock stand off's. They have the part in the product line so why not include it ?

The only other kit I can compare it to, is the TLR 22( as its the only other one I have built recently) The 22 included everything I needed(apart from hex keys/drivers) it had threadlock, a cross wrench, grease and even included shock oil and 2 sets of wheels.
I never had to look online for additional info to build the 22 and there was no issues with any of the manual directing me to incorrect parts frames.
The 22 is also around £10 cheaper than the 210

dont get me wrong I still love my 210 now that its going
but this isn't a love/hate thread. its a build quality thread and I think the 210 is unfortunately not up to standard for the price point.

[Alan - South West RC]

As with everything in this sport it's down to personal preference. I've always had Schumacher cars but as everyone in the area was moving to the 210 I finally decided to try one for myself. I too was disappointed with the quality of the kit and the poor instruction manual and after only a couple of meetings I went back to Schumacher.

Having said that though I know people that have bought 210's and are really enjoying racing them and haven’t complained once about the quality. So as I said, everyone is different and that’s great for the sport as it adds variety.

-AP-

[lordnikon]

Some valid commented so far, my point of view having 'moved up' from the Ansmann stuff is its priced and specced about right. I looked at the 22, 210 and SV2 as options and plumped for the 210.

Manual is an obvious and quick fix which SHOULD be sorted. However even with the mistakes in it you dont have to be a genius to work out the mistakes

Plastics, seemed a decent quality. I did have problems with a shock cap was not threaded properly, quick email to MBmodels and for them to talk to TD and it was on my doormat the next day.

The car would work out of the box however the metal standoffs and alloy hexes are like £10-£15 .... its not the end of the world, and gives you the option to upgrade if you want. If they had been included but the kit was £210 would i have bought it ?? Its hard to say tbh

As for price point, i bought it as it was a middle range buggy. High end Kyosho vegas and the DB1 are on another level build wise, but they are twice the price.