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  #61  
Old 04-11-2011
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You could always take a set of worn yellows and dremmel off the lumps of spikes?
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  #62  
Old 04-11-2011
Cockerill Cockerill is offline
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I'll simply refer to my previous post:

'If you want to save money run a 'full spike' style tire or harder compound. Both should easily last the duration of the series and probably the next one too.'

It fits the club rules, fits the spirit of off road racing and everyone will be happy. Currently for ~90%+ everybody's happy with the rule, entries are over subscribed at the meetings, the series is looking very healthy. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
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  #63  
Old 04-11-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy110m View Post
but did Simon have lots of sets?
So because he didn't, you're saying others wouldn't?

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Originally Posted by andy110m View Post
Did he have them trued to elastic bands on wheels
That's in fact what happens, in any foam-tyre class.

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Originally Posted by andy110m View Post
did he use additive
I would, and I suggest I could do it an nobody could catch me.

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Originally Posted by andy110m View Post
did he chunk them and replace them every run
Somebody would, maybe after one run, and it would piss them off and it might chase them off.

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Originally Posted by andy110m View Post
did they wear or change over the day
If you're saying they don't, then is shows a lack of experience with foams.

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Originally Posted by andy110m View Post
did his car come off covered in tyre dust?
Of course not, that would be the corner of the hall where I'd have my tyre-truing machine.

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Originally Posted by andy110m View Post
The answer to all these is No!
Really?

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Originally Posted by andy110m View Post
Exaggerated? Don't see how
Because for everyone that runs foam-tyred cars KNOWS you should have a minimum of one set per run on hand, even just in case you chunk a tire, and different compounds available dependent on the ambient temp and to adjust as the traction comes up and the racing line rubbers in. Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure everyone that runs rubbers says the same tyres they arrived at the track with last week are the same ones they'll be running next week and the week after and the week after that and the week after that...


Again andy110m - why should all the Batley members feel forced to buy foam tyres because of one guy going against the norm, when they've already invested in rubbers that meet the rules set aside for the season?
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  #64  
Old 04-11-2011
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Kayce, if you are talking 12th or saloon 10th on a high grip carpet, then yes, but on buggies, rolling diameter isn't to much of an issue, and you need to keep some meat on the foam as if you true them to far, you lose control of the chassis attitude over any jumps. A decent set of foams, mounted on rims correctly, should last a lot longer than a set of pins or spikes, but they do handle differently, and any shinny stuff, and the foams get clogged with dust and lost lots of grip.
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  #65  
Old 04-11-2011
kayce kayce is offline
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Sorry DCM, but my experiences are based on having run foams on buggies on carpet the last 5 winters - and my observances trackside. I don't care as I have tyre sponsors, but for the first-timers trying to compete I feel it's going to put them at an unfair disadvantage. IMHO
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  #66  
Old 04-11-2011
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Reference Foam Tyres

During the first round of 2011/12 series it was brought to the club’s attention that foam tyres were being used at the meeting,

We have been asked to clarify our position on the use of foam tyres at future meetings.

After discussion between officials, the club has decided that the use of foam tyres will not be allowed at future meeting as there is no guarantee that additives would not be used if foam tyres became the favoured tyres as additives could potentially damage the floor., This would result in repair costs that the club could not afford.

As of round two only rubber style spike tyres will be allowed, (e.g. dboot, mini pins) as traditionally used at 1/10th off road meeting.

Please contact me via PM if any more information is required as we do not wish this matter to become a forum debate.

Stephen Lawson
Chairman
Batley Buggy Club
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  #67  
Old 04-11-2011
andy110m andy110m is offline
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Hi Guys, I can now see why Kayce isn't keen on foams, he has a tyre sponsor and could possibly be using additive because he believes he can get away with it. Of course I joking about that but I can't understand why people think its not an issue with rubber but would be with foam.

Come on guys lets keep this sensible. As DCM says 12th true tyres for reason that don't apply to us, as did touring cars. But we need the harder compound and for that reason we have no need of truing them and in fact it would be a disadvantage. If anyone had a truer in the corner making alot of mess I'm sure a stern word would be had.

As for the next issue, the Batley members having to buy one set of foams, or lets assume they puch the boat out and buy two for the crazy money of £14.

I'm sure they have to buy tyres at some point, they aren't going to buy one set of mini's and expect them to last all year are they?

Tom asked about why not run Blues or full spikes, because they aren't fast. Simple, they last but are slow. So why not have fast and last? Simon will confirm but I think he said he lost 1mm on the outside diameter, so 0.5mm over the course of the day at round 1. But I can see this isn't idea isn't popular so as I've already said, what was I thinking?

Steve I can see you don't want people to discuss this but I can't really understand why? It doesn't put any bad light on the club and if fact, we are all in agreement, its a fantastic series run by a great club. At the end of the day its just a discussion, that I hoped was to be constructive. Your statement is simple and to the fact as a statement should be, just be nice to get some of the reasoning behind it and a view why the VBC's shouldn't be allowed. Again I think they'll be fast at Chadderton and being designed for indoor or tarmac, they should give a really good life span. Oh and they are made out of that stuff you guys all love buying, Rubber!
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  #68  
Old 04-11-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy110m View Post
Come on guys lets keep this sensible. As DCM says 12th true tyres for reason that don't apply to us, as did touring cars. But we need the harder compound and for that reason we have no need of truing them and in fact it would be a disadvantage. If anyone had a truer in the corner making alot of mess I'm sure a stern word would be had.
That is outright crazy nutcase talk. I've mounted thousands of foam tires, and maybe one in 100 requires little or no truing.
And the "foam dust mess in the corner" is something you can't stop, if you're going to allow foams.

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Originally Posted by andy110m View Post
Hi Guys, I can now see why Kayce isn't keen on foams, he has a tyre sponsor and could possibly be using additive because he believes he can get away with it. Of course I joking about that but I can't understand why people think its not an issue with rubber but would be with foam.
I have rubber and foam tyre sponsors, it makes no difference to me either way. I can get any tyre I want, in any hardness I want, any time I want, and I have both a home and portable truing machine. I don't care!
What I'm trying to support is the idea of NOT making it more expensive for the guys that don't have foams and already have suitable rubber tyres - along with repeatedly pointing out the Batley Club organizers have already made their decision regarding the 2011-12 season.
End of story!

BUT, you keep trying to twist the discussion around into something that's not rational, with inaccurate information, serves no point - and does nobody any good except for YOU because you want to run foams.

Contact Stephen Lawson (Batley club chairman) here via PM, stop rattling cages and let it go.
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  #69  
Old 04-11-2011
Cockerill Cockerill is offline
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OK, my last post on this issue.

If everyone started running foams I guarentee that I would be turning up with multiple sets of different compound/diameter tires, and would definitely use more than one set in a day. I know this because someone with a lot of foam tire off road experience has told me what it's like. So if you wanted to be on the 'fast tire', like you do now with rubber, you would have to do the same.

Secondly, regarding the spike issue, why not contact Steve about it, as he stated if you want more information. I have my own ideas of why they have the rule they have, but to get the correct answer Steve is probably your best bet.
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  #70  
Old 04-11-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Lawson View Post
Reference Foam Tyres

During the first round of 2011/12 series it was brought to the club’s attention that foam tyres were being used at the meeting,

We have been asked to clarify our position on the use of foam tyres at future meetings.

After discussion between officials, the club has decided that the use of foam tyres will not be allowed at future meeting as there is no guarantee that additives would not be used if foam tyres became the favoured tyres as additives could potentially damage the floor., This would result in repair costs that the club could not afford.

As of round two only rubber style spike tyres will be allowed, (e.g. dboot, mini pins) as traditionally used at 1/10th off road meeting.

Please contact me via PM if any more information is required as we do not wish this matter to become a forum debate.

Stephen Lawson
Chairman
Batley Buggy Club
Any chance of useing sponge tyres?
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  #71  
Old 04-11-2011
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reelman_fishing reelman_fishing is offline
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Quote:
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Any chance of useing sponge tyres?
Would that be natural sponge or synthetic sponge. LOL
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  #72  
Old 05-11-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy110m View Post
As DCM says 12th true tyres for reason that don't apply to us, as did touring cars. But we need the harder compound and for that reason we have no need of truing them and in fact it would be a disadvantage. If anyone had a truer in the corner making alot of mess I'm sure a stern word would be had.
Sorry, incorrect, you will still need to try them after making them, to get them round and all the same size, just no need to true them during the day.
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  #73  
Old 09-11-2011
total newbie total newbie is offline
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[/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
The reason behind the decision was quite clearly stated by the club chairman.
The club will not risk losing the use of any of its venues by allowing activites which could potentially cause damage.
Potentially damage can come from all these shock oils, super glue, cleaning aerosols and even 12volt batterys,

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These are the bald tyres i used and had loads of steering
some might say they are legal.
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  #74  
Old 15-11-2011
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Hey Andy,
correction to my earlier threads.... im going to use new tyres on Sunday! and I can't help but think of you as I do it, and I laugh, as I don't care... im just a rebel... ha ha. See you Sunday mate.
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  #75  
Old 15-11-2011
andy110m andy110m is offline
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Hi Chris, I'm really looking forward to Sunday, the last meeting was fantastic, and I too will have new boots on each car as I'm sure will most people.

I'm completely fine with that, the point I wanted to discuss is would foam make racing cheaper and attract even more people longer term into the hobby. Simon was again out with his foams on Sunday, another day for him with next to no wear, great grip and then back in his box for the next meeting where they'll offer exactly the same performance as last time.

However that said Tom and I discussed this topic at Worksop and he's convinced me this would go wrong from the top down. Simon and every day racers are really happy with what he's got but the top guys would want the best and nothing less. To get to the best Tom was suggesting he'd be turning up with at least 10 sets of foams, all different compounds, different diameters to find the last 10th. And thats when this idea falls down because what Tom's describing has a name, its called a tyre war and thats in nobodys interest so I guess we have to stay as we are, spending lots of money on lots of new tyres. Or at least a set a meeting as Chris has honestly admitted. He wants to do well so he's going to use new tyres, no one can blame him for that but if used ones, like the set he used at Worksop, were every bit as quick would he be using new ones?

Anyway I think we've covered this academic topic and reached an conclusion that no one can argue against. Whilst the theory is sound, in practice it would be flawed by human nature.

So I'm going to sit here, watch the rest of the England game, glue my tyres up and look forward to what I'm sure will be another great meeting on Sunday.
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  #76  
Old 15-11-2011
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Havent looked at this thread for ages, but reading the last post, couldn't resist

There already is a tyre war ! Always has being, always will be !

Look at the top lads pit tables and you'll see (as I did at the last meeting) masses of brand new tyres gluing up, no doubt with different inserts, tyre types etc, all to find the best performing combo.

For the average club racer, a foam tyre war is no different to a rubber one, with the exception that you (the average jo) will spend much less in the long run.

Top drivers (who possibly don't buy their own tyres ?) will always look for the extra speed and advantage if it doesn't hit them in the pocket. For the rest of us, anything that makes the hobby cheaper is good news IMO.

I too will be gluing new tyres for Sunday. Anyone who reckons older ones are as good is just kidding themselves, still won't win though
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  #77  
Old 15-11-2011
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Im looking forward to Sunday too.

I would re-use my last tyres except iv bought a Centro C4.1. So no point starting out on used tyres. Start with confidence on new and can make better informed setup changes...

See you Sunday mate.
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  #78  
Old 15-11-2011
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  #79  
Old 16-11-2011
kayce kayce is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andys View Post
For the average club racer, a foam tyre war is no different to a rubber one, with the exception that you (the average jo) will spend much less in the long run.
Hogwash
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  #80  
Old 04-12-2011
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Default Bl**dy foams

Iv only just seen this one and thought id add my bit. I spent quite a while racing against simon at southport using his "wonder" foams. I was always of the opinion they should have been banned and were not intended for off road buggys. If for no other reason than its not in the spirit of off road racing.

I also agree there is no way you could just glue them on, they would need to be trued and run in to the camber angles, again where does this end. Its simple physics the tyre would work better when the angle is matched that of the buggy. I also think as tom says if this was the route you were going to explore then you would need to start off with a few different compounds and also different diameters, i imagine larger diameters would have the advantage of some tyre compression and the smaller for a lower polar moment and also roll centre, which all leads to more testing and money for extra sets.

As for the traction compound i think that needs to be avoided at all costs. At the end of the day its toy car racing and needs to be fun so why make it even more hard work. I no longer race any more but as its something that used to frustrate me when i was racing so thought id share my views.
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