Last nights racing

[Chris Elworthy]

Hi Lads,

please accept my comments on the Brushless issue despite not having raced Mardave at Ribble for a number of years although i intend returning with my Mardave this friday.

I've always been very much into Mardave racing, the low cost, close, fun, yet competitive has always appealed to me however as many people are feeling the introduction of Brushless/Lipo has made things more confusing for many.

From the previous posts I have read the one thing that stands out is Dan's post where he quotes
"it does not state that you cannot advance the timing on the motor"
having gone through the BRCA Rules numerous times and through them with a fine tooth comb this morning this is indeed correct, but is it in the spirit of Mardave racing?
Much research and testing has been done to introduce brushless technology to the Mardave circuit classes concluding that the combination of a 13.5 turn Brushless motor combined with a 3.7v 1s Lipo battery offers a comparable performance to the 4.8V NIMH/Silver can G2 motor. From what i have read, and its a lot, It was the BRCA's intention, to have a brushless equivalent option to offer drivers zero maintainance, not as a neccessary performace upgrade.
Dan, sorry to keep mentioning you but you have written the most here. I was surprised when I came over to check out your car the quality of the equipment in your car. Once again everything you were running is perfectly legal for the BRCA National meetings but i was suprised that they would allow Tekin RS Pro speedo's (Retailing at around £150) and Reedy Sonic motors (Retailing at £90) it seems ludicrous for a class that is supposedly a entry level/fun class.
I appriciate that these are the BRCA rules but to me the rules look very slap dash and in a state of trial. For example, In 4.3 of the rules it states that brushed speed controllers must have a reverse function fitted and not exceed a price limit of £65 yet you have free choice of brushless speed controllers with an almost open homogolation list of advanced timing 13.5 motors to choose from...seems strange.
I've raced nationals in various classes before and always looked for that little advantage to get more out of my motors (albeit brushed era) so i totally understand that the likes of Dan, Kev and Dobbo have gone for the quickest motors that are legal at natioinal events but my fear is that at club level it will create a motor war making this notoriously inexpensive class expensive.
I'm not saying that people should stop using brushless combo's im just wondering whether there is a way to stop the timing advance from the motor itself? I don't care what the BRCA Rules state, having timing advance coming from the motor is just the same as having a 0deg timed motor with 20% timing coming from the speed controller.
There just seems far too many loopholes in the current GT12 (and essentially RVRCCC) rules at the moment that these sort of discussions will continue until the BRCA, or club, set a motor price cap that only allows the use of 0 timing brushless motors.
Finally, not suggesting for one minute that anybody is doing this but i feel its a valid point, the so called "blinky" modes are still open to abuse. There have been cases of drivers changing the software programmes on their speedo's to make them still blink in neutral despite having timing advance enabled.

All this issues I imagine will be ironed out by the BRCA in the coming years but as the GT12 class is brand new teething problems will occur.

It has taken away a bit of the plug and play fun of the NIMH/G2 racing but as
Gav proved on friday night, smooth driving with a silver can can still win the meeting....was a proud moment for us old brushed boys haha!

Please feel free to comment on any of my thoughts,


Chris

[Gavin Collingwood]

Still got it after all these years... Haha

[cr1tch]

Originally Posted by Chris Elworthy

Hi Lads,

please accept my comments on the Brushless issue despite not having raced Mardave at Ribble for a number of years although i intend returning with my Mardave this friday.

I've always been very much into Mardave racing, the low cost, close, fun, yet competitive has always appealed to me however as many people are feeling the introduction of Brushless/Lipo has made things more confusing for many.

From the previous posts I have read the one thing that stands out is Dan's post where he quotes
"it does not state that you cannot advance the timing on the motor"
having gone through the BRCA Rules numerous times and through them with a fine tooth comb this morning this is indeed correct, but is it in the spirit of Mardave racing?
Much research and testing has been done to introduce brushless technology to the Mardave circuit classes concluding that the combination of a 13.5 turn Brushless motor combined with a 3.7v 1s Lipo battery offers a comparable performance to the 4.8V NIMH/Silver can G2 motor. From what i have read, and its a lot, It was the BRCA's intention, to have a brushless equivalent option to offer drivers zero maintainance, not as a neccessary performace upgrade.
Dan, sorry to keep mentioning you but you have written the most here. I was surprised when I came over to check out your car the quality of the equipment in your car. Once again everything you were running is perfectly legal for the BRCA National meetings but i was suprised that they would allow Tekin RS Pro speedo's (Retailing at around £150) and Reedy Sonic motors (Retailing at £90) it seems ludicrous for a class that is supposedly a entry level/fun class.
I appriciate that these are the BRCA rules but to me the rules look very slap dash and in a state of trial. For example, In 4.3 of the rules it states that brushed speed controllers must have a reverse function fitted and not exceed a price limit of £65 yet you have free choice of brushless speed controllers with an almost open homogolation list of advanced timing 13.5 motors to choose from...seems strange.
I've raced nationals in various classes before and always looked for that little advantage to get more out of my motors (albeit brushed era) so i totally understand that the likes of Dan, Kev and Dobbo have gone for the quickest motors that are legal at natioinal events but my fear is that at club level it will create a motor war making this notoriously inexpensive class expensive.
I'm not saying that people should stop using brushless combo's im just wondering whether there is a way to stop the timing advance from the motor itself? I don't care what the BRCA Rules state, having timing advance coming from the motor is just the same as having a 0deg timed motor with 20% timing coming from the speed controller.
There just seems far too many loopholes in the current GT12 (and essentially RVRCCC) rules at the moment that these sort of discussions will continue until the BRCA, or club, set a motor price cap that only allows the use of 0 timing brushless motors.
Finally, not suggesting for one minute that anybody is doing this but i feel its a valid point, the so called "blinky" modes are still open to abuse. There have been cases of drivers changing the software programmes on their speedo's to make them still blink in neutral despite having timing advance enabled.

All this issues I imagine will be ironed out by the BRCA in the coming years but as the GT12 class is brand new teething problems will occur.

It has taken away a bit of the plug and play fun of the NIMH/G2 racing but as
Gav proved on friday night, smooth driving with a silver can can still win the meeting....was a proud moment for us old brushed boys haha!

Please feel free to comment on any of my thoughts,


Chris

Hi Chris
Thank you for the post , i do agree with you but we have only got the expensive kit in our cars as we want to keep up with the rest at the nationals, to note our Brushless Mardaves have been sat on shelf since we got them around Xmas Time last year As the 'Club ' would only allow Brushed motors and 4 cells to run.... And the only time to Race them would be on a run night @ national events and also Blackpool RC Club.... All of these event seem few and far between so as you can guess i was more than thrilled that the club would allow the Modified Class (brushless)....

i know that the intialtion our lay is exspensive, but we could have this argument all day long.... is the club going to stop Buggies running Brushless and Lipos (is the club going to stop Buggies run Brushless and Lipo's I Dont think so)
If this is the case how many Driver at the Club that run Buggies and Lipo's - Saying that Take a walk around the Pits and See how MANY Buggies Drivers that Charge Lipo's That are not in a LIPO SACK.....

As for Fixed Timing Motor, i have one them also.....
http://www.lrp.cc/en/products/electr...-135t/details/

I thought the Point of Having a Modified Class and brushed class, was to help the club move forward with the times, As Shumacher and Mardave have grown Rapidly in recent months.....

Many of the top guys want to run Brushless as we feel that we have out Grown Brushed Motor... and want to progress on from this..
Over the last few race seires at the club i have lost count of the amount of G2 Brushed motors i have bought And at £ 10 pound per time it soon adds up...

As for brushed this is an idea class for youngests and also low end drivers, ( i for one won the last series beating Dobbo as it is normally Kevin or Dobs who alway win the championship.... I could still run my brushed motor and give people a run for thier money)

My Final point being that the club needs to move with the times, or risk loosing members!! as this class is growning fast...

[tisher]

I agree with Dan it was my first proper race with a mod system and have to say I really enjoyed it The only thing I think we need to do is split the heats a bit better rather than splitting brushed or brushless as they are very similar in speed. Maybe have a cut of point for the top heat say people that are continually doing 17 laps and above go in the top heat regardless of being brushless or not I am sure there is enough of us

[Gavin Collingwood]

Totally agree put the higher ability in the top heat, but how do you do that?

[Jlc57]

The heats are already run on the basis of ability and then the finals on lap times in the heats so not sure what else is expected