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  #21  
Old 21-01-2013
Pitman Ed Pitman Ed is offline
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1) The reality is that Ribble has a Mardave section, and thus it is effectivelty an on-road track. That's why treated foams will give an advantage - those of us who go back far enough have experienced that many times. Either foams are disqualified or most people will be on them. Yes it's racing for fun, but racers like to compete! Also with the amount of additive going on the carpet recently i've seen more cars grip roling and behaving in a more unpredictable manner.
2) The issue regarding running 2wd and 4wd together is clear cut in my view. I don't know any other club that does it. It forces the competitive drivers to run 4wd; that's why Ribble has so many 4wd entries. Every other club I know has more 2wd entries because they can compete on a level playing field. A couple of top drivers moaning about mixed abilities and lapping slower cars - tough - if your that good it shouldn't be a problem to you? But seriously, the classes are different and they should be separated. I'll guarantee more people will then drive 2wd. I went to Southport on Sunday - indoor track - mixed abilities - 7 heats - only one 4wd!!!
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  #22  
Old 21-01-2013
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If the club allows additive, just switch to the VBC SE slicks.

Don't tear up the carpet, and grip wise, a half way house between pins and foams.

We have to use them as we share the track with the flatlanders.
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  #23  
Old 21-01-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitman Ed View Post
1) The reality is that Ribble has a Mardave section, and thus it is effectivelty an on-road track. That's why treated foams will give an advantage - those of us who go back far enough have experienced that many times. Either foams are disqualified or most people will be on them. Yes it's racing for fun, but racers like to compete! Also with the amount of additive going on the carpet recently i've seen more cars grip roling and behaving in a more unpredictable manner.
2) The issue regarding running 2wd and 4wd together is clear cut in my view. I don't know any other club that does it. It forces the competitive drivers to run 4wd; that's why Ribble has so many 4wd entries. Every other club I know has more 2wd entries because they can compete on a level playing field. A couple of top drivers moaning about mixed abilities and lapping slower cars - tough - if your that good it shouldn't be a problem to you? But seriously, the classes are different and they should be separated. I'll guarantee more people will then drive 2wd. I went to Southport on Sunday - indoor track - mixed abilities - 7 heats - only one 4wd!!!
Hi Ed, not sure who you are but I am Eric the chairman of Ribble and I would just like to have my say on what the club has tried to do to accomodate different classes of racing.

1. Tried a control tyre for buggies - Racers did not like it.

2. Segregated 2wd and 4wd (when the numbers were less than we have now) - Racers said the beginers got in the way.

3. The number of racers at Ribble has increased over the last 18 months to between 65 and 75 on a Friday night, we must be doing something right.

4. Because of the numbers of racers we are limited to the number of races we can have during our limited time slot at wellfield - 3 hours or 180 minutes 7 heats 4mins + 2 mins gap * 4 rounds = 42*4 = 168 + 10 mins to set up finals = 178 mins.
It is very tight to organise a race meeting with the restriction of a 3 hour time slot . Many other clubs do not have this restriction along with the fact we have to put the track out and back away before we can go home.

5. If the majority of Buggy racers want to ban foams I have not got a problem with that.

6. If the majority of Buggy racers want to split 2wd and 4wd I have got a problem with that because we would have to limit the number of buggy racers to about 30 which would mean turning away between 20 and 30 racers on current numbers.

If anyone has some good ideas bearing in mind our current facilities and time constraints please feel free to let your representative on the committee know -for Buggies contact Shaun Reeve and for GT12 contact Kevin Appleby or contact any committee member.

Regards
Eric
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  #24  
Old 21-01-2013
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I would say its only a small amount of people hu don't want foams being used I would say the majority like them or want them if we have a problem with additive ban the use of that?
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  #25  
Old 21-01-2013
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Yes please if anyone has any views towards or against the running of tyres / additive etc then feel free to come and chat to me about it.

As Eric has mentioned over the last 3 years the club has tried to accommodate every eventuality. At the end of the day the club exists to serve the racers. It's run by the committee and they're individuals who have put there time and effort aside to run the Friday nights. But saying that all they want to do is listen to the general consensus and adapt to how the member feel that the club should be best run.

Those individuals, most who have been involved with the club since before I was even racing, have a wealth of experience in running it and the ideas that have/ have not been tried and tested. They’re more than happy to voice there opinions if you’ve got a suggestion, and if we all think it’ll help then we’ll be sure to give it a go and listen to feedback.


As for the tyre debate then I have had the opportunity to run and try both in recent weeks. Whilst foams provide much more traction they’re also quite edgy and can potentially cause more accidents, however I don’t think this is the main reason. When I’ve been running my car it goes roughly 0.5-0.7 seconds a lap quicker on foams with additive over mini pins.

Additive works by softening the outer layer of the tyre, essentially as softer shore rating (compound). This helps as it generates more traction whilst keeping the rest of the tyre stiff and stable.

Ban the additive and people will just go out and buy softer foams, these inevitably will wear quicker, thus increasing cost and time. They have more chance of chunking (large sections of the tyre coming loose), making them again more expensive. Lastly the actual tyre will have more chance of folding making the car less predictable and increasing the chance of accidents. And remember it can be an accident coming round a corner and loosing grip when overtaking. Making a bad race for more than just 1 person.


It's a hard one to call but at the end of the day it's not us that has to make the decision, it's you the members.
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  #26  
Old 21-01-2013
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whats your suggestion then Shaun? Foams being banned or just go with it and run them? Either way for us it does not matter. I know Lee run them for the first time on friday and I had a go of his car and personally I think the car is quicker but more controllable. Also it would save us money on mini pins as we only get two weeks out of them.
But looking at it from a club perspective and talking from experience of racing at a club that only ever run foams on buggies it will eventually ruin the racing for anyone that does not want to run foams as like Ed said it will make mini pins grip very unpredictable this I have seen first hand and when new people turn up to race they will undoubtable struggle.
As regards the 2wd and 4wd debate like I said in previous posts the club has already tried it and did not seem to work but I am sure the commitee will no doubt bring it up again at the AGM.
Maybe it will be worth everyone running a 2wd to put a tick on the heat list so the club can see just how many are actually running in an evening.
I know I would rather run 2wd at ribble but I prefer Vaughn running 4wd as it gives him more control at the moment
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  #27  
Old 21-01-2013
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I agree with everything Eric has said (must be a first!!)

I don't have any problem banning foams if the majority of racers want it.

With the number of 4WD we have now it might be possible to run one heat of 4WD if the abilities allow with the rest fitting in with the 2WD but it would take a bit of sorting out on the night. Eric and myself can have a look but no promises.

Eric, Pitman Ed is Luke and Josh's Grandad.

Peter
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  #28  
Old 21-01-2013
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Following what Ed mentioned, I think you'll find that the majority of your racers own a 2wd even if they run a 4wd at Ribble. When those same people run at Southport, Bury or Chadderton its almost always 2wd.
But as long as they run together 4wd will be the obvious choice, especially on a track like yours.

The solution to filling heats and dealing with novices is easy - run 3 classes. Basically have a 'Beginners' heat where it doesn't matter if you have 2 or 4wd and divide the rest up. As long as you get at least 10 for each. If the computer is set to recognise 2wd and 4wd for points scoring it should all work out balanced.
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  #29  
Old 27-01-2013
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Time to stick my 50p in the pot....

I was the first people to run foams on my B44 and really kick all of this off. the reason I run foams is that we all run them at South Lakes due to them giving plenty of grip, don't destroy the carpet and are amazingly cost effective as I am still running my set that are on their second season!!!

There were no complaints when I was running my X6 the winter before when I was finishing in the top 3, it's only now that I am as quick as the very top people it has become such as issue.

In terms of making cars with foams slower, I am not sure how. You would do this. As banning additive wouldn't make a big difference with the mardaves still using it, so the track will still give plenty of grip. Making a course that has more lumps and jumps? We do the at South Lakes and it doesn't slow them down at all.

I simply refuse to my mini pins due to the cost implication as to be really competitive I would go through a set every few meetings at after buying tyres, wheels and inserts you are getting up to £30.

Not sure what the answer is to the tyre situation, but these are my views for what they are worth on the subject.
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  #30  
Old 27-01-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenski View Post
Time to stick my 50p in the pot....

I was the first people to run foams on my B44 and really kick all of this off. the reason I run foams is that we all run them at South Lakes due to them giving plenty of grip, don't destroy the carpet and are amazingly cost effective as I am still running my set that are on their second season!!!

There were no complaints when I was running my X6 the winter before when I was finishing in the top 3, it's only now that I am as quick as the very top people it has become such as issue.

In terms of making cars with foams slower, I am not sure how. You would do this. As banning additive wouldn't make a big difference with the mardaves still using it, so the track will still give plenty of grip. Making a course that has more lumps and jumps? We do the at South Lakes and it doesn't slow them down at all.

I simply refuse to my mini pins due to the cost implication as to be really competitive I would go through a set every few meetings at after buying tyres, wheels and inserts you are getting up to £30.

Not sure what the answer is to the tyre situation, but these are my views for what they are worth on the subject.

I dont think there is going to be anything done about running them as its better for the wood floor if they come off the track.
the only thing that is going to happen is everyone will use them so you will loose your advantage as I could do two laps more in a race with them compared to mini pins and its great for us because it will save a fortune on tyres
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  #31  
Old 28-01-2013
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perhaps we should rename Friday night racing as Foam Friday
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  #32  
Old 28-01-2013
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I dont think there is going to be anything done about running them as its better for the wood floor if they come off the track.
the only thing that is going to happen is everyone will use them so you will loose your advantage as I could do two laps more in a race with them compared to mini pins and its great for us because it will save a fortune on tyres
I'm not that fussed about loosing the advantage, I just go for the racing as it's just round the corner and I use foams anyway. I don't have the budget for minipins or the issues of setting my car up differently for racing at ribble or South Lakes.
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  #33  
Old 29-01-2013
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Default Foams

Firstly addictive should not been banned nor should foams on buggies.... As for foams causing the carpet to deteriate I've never know this.... Morecombe has carpet that is still 20 years old that still in good condition from the foam days..

Minis pins I have found have caused an issue with the grip on my gt12 as they tend to scrub away the additive.

Foams will out last a set if mini pins so long as you keep them in good order and change them left to right after each round, their for being more cost effective than Mini pins.

How long does a set of mini pins last? Maybe two club nites if that!!!!

Also forgot the "FLUFF" that mini pins create and cause head aches for all on us...

My case closed and when I get my budgie lol I will opt for foams too....

So plus one from me on foams....
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  #34  
Old 01-02-2013
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Anybody know where i can get some. Only seem to be able to find them premounted.

Thanks
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  #35  
Old 02-02-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy-j.smith6 View Post
Anybody know where i can get some. Only seem to be able to find them premounted.

Thanks
I used the pre mounted ones an used acetone to get them off an then mout them to yours
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  #36  
Old 02-02-2013
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you get them from schumacher 1/8th oval tyres all different shores
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  #37  
Old 02-02-2013
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Does this sound right

JS451/8th Stock Car Donut 45Sh 46x70x36mm

Thanks for the help
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  #38  
Old 02-02-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy-j.smith6 View Post
Does this sound right

JS451/8th Stock Car Donut 45Sh 46x70x36mm

Thanks for the help
Ye that's the size but there a 45shore you want more like a 37 I think a use 35 shore
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  #39  
Old 02-02-2013
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Nice one thanks.
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  #40  
Old 02-02-2013
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I did some interesting back to back testing last night. First heat on foams my faster lap was in the mid 11's. in round two put some mini's on and I recorded a slightly quicker faster lap and found the car was possibly a touch slower round the corners but I could go so much quicker over the jump at the end of the straight the overall lap time was nearly the same.

So for me there is nothing in it other than the cost implication. Minis last s couple of meetings, my foams are two seasons old and will easily do another year yet.
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