BSR-BZ222

[Losi_110]

I know that there are some very varied feelings towards Hobbyking on here but check this out!

Full photos here:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...arehouse_.html

Kit version here:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...arehouse_.html

At first glance it looks very much like a DEX210 rip off which it probably is but check out that gearbox.
Now for under £70 for the kit version that's good money by any standards especially as you can get every spare you'll possibly need delivered to you from the global warehouse for a little over £18!!! That's mental! cars like this have got to be good for the sport really, just a shame that it's very dubious that one will ever see itself in the hands of a top driver who can get a good setup for it.
But I put this to you imagine that gearbox in a B5m! Hmmm

[Jamesk]

I'd like to have a closer look at this car espically at the gearbox. If it is £70 it's got to be worth a punt for sure. Anyone brave enough to try one?

jK

[Dandare]

Originally Posted by Jamesk

Anyone brave enough to try one?

Yep

Had to order the ARR version but only worked out £97 & I have a reciever anyway. Hope to collect from HK tomorrow.

It uses 12mm hex so already have lots of wheels/tyres, I use shorty packs too which it'll accept.

I don't even need this car I'll call it my spare... spare car

I just fancied it because it's, well, different ! (oh, & I like the paint job lol)

[Jamesk]

Been looking at the options for this car, getting intrested in it, was thinking I'd get a 201xmw from Tamiya for next year but now not sure. When you run it post a reveiw up for us.

jK

[Dandare]

There are a few ongoing reviews on other forums & so far I agree with what I'm reading elsewhere. To date I've only stripped down the rear end & dismantled/re-assembled the gearbox in order to change the layout from rear to mid motor.

A few pro's & con's so far:

Con's:

A couple of the hex screws were 'over' thread locked eg, spur gear cover screws, resulting in a stripped hex (A brand new hex driver may be a good move when undoing these).
Rear shock tower has a bit too much flex, though some of the reason is related to the part it screws on to rather than the tower itself (I may look into a solution to this)
Plastic hinge pins holders, though they appear reasonably beefy (titanium upgrades available)
Manual/exploded diagrams not that clear, especially when converting motor configuration.
Mahoosive 32dp 64t spur. Pinion included but I don't have any more 32dp pinions....
Some 'flash' still present on some mouldings.
Very small slipper plate drive pins, easily lost so beware !
Hex screw heads soft, probably worse than Ansmann were.
In mid motor the inner rear turnbuckle is limited to rear most position on bulkhead only otherwise it fouls the spur gear cover during suspension travel. This results in a strange rearward angle in relation to the arm/driveshaft.

Pro's:

The solid wishbones & front shock tower do still have a satisfying degree of flex.
Steering/suspension moves freely without any excessive play whatsoever.
Drive belt beefier than expected @ 8mm width.
Kit tyres surprisingly soft & inserts feel neither too hard or soft. They look most suited to dirt, we have a dirt track so we'll see in due course...
Hex hardware.
Captured hinge pins (no E-clips !)
Parts prices, eg, £1.45 for front & rear shock towers, £2.54 for all 4 wishbones
Ball raced throughout.
Neat little front & rear droop adjusters which screw on to the wishbones (weren't originally sure what these were as they weren't fitted!)
Upgrades available (though you could buy 11 F&R shock tower sets for 1 carbon set...)

One small tip, the gear diff has white grease in it. I stripped it, de-greased it & have filled with 10k cSt diff oil. I noticed some flash around the 4 screw holes on the main diff moulding, I very carefully rubbed the flash off using 400 (wet) grit on a flat surface. This ensures the gasket should at least seal properly when using oil in the diff.

[Losi_110]

Sounds good, seriously tempted, but think it'll have to wait until after Christmas now as i just bought myself a vintage car lol. But keep us posted when you get a chance to run it.

[Dandare]

I have discovered a few issues when building in mid motor config.
Firstly, the turnbuckles need to be mounted to the rear most position on the bulkhead otherwise it fouls the spur gear cover when the suspension is compressed. Aside from giving an odd angle (as shown) it also means you need to extend the length of the turnbuckles to the point where there isn't a whole lot of thread left in the ball cups, which also makes them a bit flexy.



Secondly, & more worrying is the driveshaft fouls on the spur gear cover when the suspension is compressed thus limiting upward travel on that side, as shown below:



This shows the point of contact:



If you remove the spur cover the driveshaft then fouls the teeth of the spur itself
So far I can't think of a solution without changing some parts which would kind of defeat the object of buying a cheap kit !

I've fiddled with some of my Team C stock & it appears using either TM2 gullwing or tc02c straight rear wishbones & driveshafts with the BSR BZ 222 hubs would solve both issues though this mod will extend the wheelbase, & make it wider, though I won't know how much by until I build it up & fit the wheels (only relevant if you want it to be BRCA legal of course) This would be a shame as I feel the BSR wishbones aren't too bad otherwise.

This is a little disappointing regardless of the low cost of the kit, as running it it mid motor doesn't really work. I just wish they'd used a smaller 48dp spur gear, & therefore a smaller spur cover & motor plate which may have meant this issue wouldn't have occured at all.

I'll update when I have more info, hopefully tomorrow.

[Dandare]

I've spent half a wet sunday tinkering with the 222 so if anyone out there in Oople land is still interested I'll report progress.

I've come to the conclusion that using other make rear wishbones creates more problems than it sloves regarding clearance between driveshaft & spur gear cover (see above post) including too longer wheelbase (315mm!), driveshafts angled backwards too much & more droop meaning the driveshafts almost pop out, plus the fact that you'd need to buy other parts which defeats the object somewhat.

I've effectively settled with the standard build but running the rear hubs in long wheelbase (both plastic hinge pin spacers in front of hub) & I've shaved as much material off the spur gear cover without going through it to help the driveshaft clear it. I may leave it & keep an eye on it or I could slide a rubber spacer into each shock shaft to limit the compression of the shocks.

On to the shocks themselves. The pistons are a little loose in the bores. The bores measure 12mm exactly, the pistons are 11.75mm dia.I tried a spare set of Team C pistons which are 11.9mm dia. & filled them with oil. Unfortunately at full shaft extension they go tight & get stuck. So, back to the kit pistons it was. I put 300cSt in the rears but this was too light so settled with 350cSt. I put 500cSt in the front shocks.

I aim to set shocks with zero rebound but I found achieving this almost impossible. There are no bleed screws in the caps or any slots along the cap/body threads to allow air to bleed when doing up the caps, the threads are also too good a fit to allow air to escape. I carefully dremeled a slot along the thread at the top of the body after which I was able to set them up as desired.

With wheels on & all electrics/battery dummy fitted the suspension feels very smooth. Only time will tell how long they last/don't leak oil for but they do feel good.

I've noticed quite a lot of toe in though haven't yet measured the actual angle yet.

Hope to get it running soon though I won't get to a track until at least next sunday.

[Dandare]

Couple of updates. First off I came up with a solution to the potentially weak front axles. I used my Team C 2wd axles with a spacer filed to 5.75mm length & then I used 2 spare Team C alloy locking hexes (though the plastic ones would work). This set up doesn't effect the movement of the steering & at least it's stronger & allows me to use my Team C wheels.






On another note. The brace which covers the motor in mid motor setup gets in the way of the motor when trying to set the mesh between spur & the supplied pinion. I had to shave some material from this brace where the two inner screws screw in from the underside.

[bezz]

Got one too going to see how it goes in rear motor on dirt this weekend

[Jamesk]

Looks like this car needs some more development at this stage, any thoughts on the gearbox as that's the unigue part in my eyes.

Jk

[dex210Nick]

have you tried bottoming out the car with the tires on? If the suspension doesn't compress enough from bottoming out with the tires on, I don't think the driveshaft thing will be much of an issue at all. how often do our suspensions compress to the point where the tires go ABOVE the chassis?

[Dandare]

This is how close to the ground the chassis gets before the driveshaft touches the spur cover, that's without trying to compress the tyres:



Otherwise it's nearly there except for battery wires & cutting the shell to clear the spur assembly. One thing I noticed is the servo saver touches the upper front chassis support so I just filed an arc to clear it.

My wheels/tyres on, quicker Savox servo, slipper, toe, camber & ride height all done. I bought the ARR as the kit isn't currently available in the UK so we'll see how the 3300kv sensorless system performs. I'm sure if the car performs it'll get replaced for a cheap HK sensored system at some point.

I've run it on the ground & it appears to have good steering with plenty of lock. It may still be a little soft in the damping/sprung department but i'll run it properly first & go from there EDIT: I've replaced the front shock oil from 500cSt to 550cSt(40wt) which feels better.

A few pics...

[Dandare]

And with the shell cut for mid motor, & generally neatened up.
(excuse the used wing, the kit one was bent up)

[alex97]

Could someone post a picture of the inside of the gear box fyi the belt lol.


Thanks alex

[Dandare]

Originally Posted by alex97

Could someone post a picture of the inside of the gear box fyi the belt lol.


Thanks alex

This fella has some pics of his gearbox opened up..

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2288389

[Dandare]

There was still an issue with using other make wheels regarding not much thread available on the rear stub axles.

I had some spare Team C CVD's of which the axles are slightly longer, so using the 222's dogbones & pin,



along with the Team C axle,



assembled but as the 222's pin is 11mm long (compared to the Team C's 10mm) & is held in place with a grub screw I haven't used the Team C securing ring, so looks like this,



Luckily I had these alloy 12mm hexes spare, these are 4mm wide (as against the 222's 3mm wide plastic ones),



and fitted,



Even with these I now have a little to spare unlike before,

[Dandare]

For those interested

I managed a days racing yesterday with the 222.
Track was grass, muddy & quite bumpy in places.

Basic set-up:

Mid Motor.

Shorty packs down the middle of chassis. No added weights.

Front shocks-550cSt/kit springs & pistons.
Rear shocks -500cSt/kit springs & pistons.

Tyres - Front-Worn Schumacher Green spikes with outer row cut.
Rear -Ballistic Green spikes.

5000cSt Diff oil.

The car itself was surprisingly good, took the bumps well, steering good & felt quite stable/predictable. I'm using the ARR electrics (3300kv sensorless motor/HK 60a ESC) & did suffer issues with what felt like interference when racing with other cars but not while practicing alone, maybe a receiver issue & I did notice the lack of 'smoothness' from the sensorless system. Both of these problems didn't make it easy to drive but wasn't the car's fault.

Nothing broke or came loose over the 4 rounds or 1 final. Gearbox/belt were fine, no adjustments needed. No signs of leaking from either shocks or the diff. I noticed the solid rear wishbones like to collect mud, as did the steering assembly to a point so had to keep on top of the mud throughout the day.

After the racing was finished I did notice some outdrive wear:



Time will tell how long they'll last, I have ordered a complete assembled diff plus another pair of outdrives as they're so cheap. Here it is after the racing:



Unfortunately at the end of the day whilst doing some casual laps I caught the piping after a jump, caught the rear wishbone resulting in a broken rear most hinge pin holder.. my bad Luckily I ordered the last available spare set but a redundant TM2 v1 holder I have looks like it'll fit with some light dremelling.

I'll certainly give the 222 another go, I have a 7.5t sensored motor & a better ESC I can try & I need to sort the interference issue which I suspect is receiver related. Breakage aside I thought it did good.

[Pitman]

hey guys any more updates on this buggy

see a few of you guys are running after market parts

[Dandare]

I still have (& use) the one above.

I really like mine, I have a 22 3.0 but on certain tracks I am without doubt faster & more consistent driving the 222 due to it's 'safe' nature.
It isn't as quick on high bite tracks but it'll never bite you on the arse either.

Ive upgraded the front & rear hinge pin holders, front & rear bulkheads (& rear shock tower support) to alloy, & have a carbon front shock tower.

It does require reasonably frequent maintenance including the belt & also the out drives being turned around or replaced as they wear quickly.

The Pro version kit roller is on offer on HK at the moment...