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Old 14-07-2014
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Smile Some Suggestions to possibly increase Sunday Racing Numbers

Why not do something different on a Sunday,

Here are a few suggestions from me :-

01. An old school meeting (Straight Carpet racing - No jumps)

02. A team Le Mans Style endurance Meeting (Say teams of 4 Drivers race for 3 hrs) this could be done in conjunction with another club.

03. Make Sundays into a month (or some other agreed time period) where you get points based on your finishing position ( I assume the computer system can do a full print-out of the drivers times) & at the end of the time period small trophies are awarded to the top 3 drivers or maybe a larger Trophy is awarded for the top driver then start the tournament again. Basing the points system upon a drivers position in the overall times of a meeting means everyone stands a chance. Not all points would go to 'A' Final Drivers a 'C' Final driver who does more laps in a faster time than say an 'A' Finalist would get more points.

Feel free to add some suggestions of your own & maybe even get some of them implemented. When my father & I originally set up Mansfield Car Racing we set it up to be the best club in the country & I think that was achieved. Lets make Mansfield special again, it can be done but it needs more than the same people running things it needs a little bit of help from all members. It's your club guys lets try and make it the envy of all the clubs in the region.

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Last edited by spybot; 14-07-2014 at 06:07 PM. Reason: Adding to post
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Old 14-07-2014
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Default Old school

I'm up for old school (being old) before anybody else says it

It may also be an idea to spend one weekend not racing and repairing / building new ramps and such like as some are looking tired and well past there best

I know materials are not cheep but I'm sure as a club we could pull together and sort something
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Old 14-07-2014
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To be honest, and most people know my views on this, but a lot could be gained from having a practice session on Sundays. The two main things that will boost competitiveness in this hobby are:

1. Opportunity to try different settings to sort out what works for you.
2. Time on the sticks.

Both of these are not in abundance at a race meet, even one as relaxed as Mansfield on a Weds night. With practice, 4 rounds and a final you are looking at 1/2 hour driving time tops, and it's always difficult to test settings back to back in a race environment.

Me, I'd happily pay my fees to have a full afternoon of being able to run, stop, tinker and be look what it does to the lap time. Without having to worry about losing time due to tyres going off, getting baulked on a run etc.

When i originally changed from electric to IC back in 1992....my driving improved massively, and people like Gareth will remember that I often used to spend an afternoon at Tibshelf just working on set up (2-3 hours track time). Knowing how a car works and what works for you is worth more than the majority of go faster aftermarket parts out there.

Just a thought.
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Old 15-07-2014
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Practice time works for me Ben, i like to try different things and see what does and doesnt work, getting an extra 10th per lap makes a massive difference.
Also last wednesday night, what the hell happened to the grip levels??????, even brand new tyres didn't work, it was ok in practice but was shocking for the rest of the night. What type of additive are the foam boys using? maybe this is whats causing the grip to be epicly low, just a thought.
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Old 15-07-2014
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The additive I bought for my foams Rich is exactly the same as the additive used on Off-Road Tyres - NOSRAM Traction Additive Carpet. But late time I raced 'nites' told me no additive so I ran without it. I found running Contact RC SE foams allowed me to run reasonably ok better than I raced on Mini Pins. So the solution to inconsistent grip levels would seem to be a simple one, get the carpet shampooed clean then ban all additives.

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Old 15-07-2014
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I use either lrp carpet or sxt 3.0.

Don't assume foams have more grip because they don't. Case in point, cut staggers are WAY too much for rear foams. The truth is those that have tried them have expected them to work straight away, its not going to happen. I've persisted, as have others, due to lower running costs (3+ months on a single set) no other reason.

I ve worked hard on the setup to get good performance from foams. My 22 is set up like no other car I've ever seen, 4.5 degrees antisquat, huge difference in front and rear roll centres, 4 degree camber etc. I ran out of adjustments on the yoke and thats why I moved on.

There's only so much abuse the carpet can take from mini pins. Additive prevents the fibres from getting airborne. The warmer weather is softening the pins allowing them to 'fold'. Blue compound might work better.

Broxtowe don't have problems with a mix of foam and rubber but then again pins are prohibited.
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Old 15-07-2014
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Totally agree there Ian, the setup on venoms last year was radically different to pins and the only reason I wont use foams is, we don't race them in any other championship and they would trash the tm2 drive train very quickly, maybe the carpet is on its last legs (hope not) or have the archery club done something to the carpet????
By the way Ian your car was uncatchable last week, so the foams obviously suit your driving style/setup
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Old 15-07-2014
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I don't find foams much faster than mini pins, whether they be new or scrubbed in pins. What i do get from using foams is a car that always slides but is very consistent and controllable. I do agree with 200sx though that new cut staggers have way more bite than the foams but again the grip levels on these changes race by race.
I find the foams more consistent than rubber which as you say dicky changes throughout the night's racing.
I'm hoping the drivetrain wear ends up costing less than a new pair of rears a week and new fronts every other week but will wait and see.
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Old 15-07-2014
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With the money im saving I could afford a new complete buggy every 5 months and still be quids in! The only (marginal) accelerated wear is with the dogbones and diff outdrives. All of £40 every 6 months.
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Old 15-07-2014
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40 quid every 6 months i could live with, mine would be 65 quid every 6weeks for centre cup, centre drive shaft diff out drives and drive shafts, so not good. Its cheaper buying tyres every week for me
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Old 15-07-2014
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I think it may be worth hiring a professional carpet cleaner to improve the pile. We can chat about it on Wed. yes – he said pile he he he
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Old 15-07-2014
rossiracer rossiracer is offline
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Default tyres

I for one have saved money running foams but cannot see the point in me racing any more if we have to race in a different class has there is only a few of us use foams I don't want to stop racing at Mansfield but that's what might have to happen
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Old 15-07-2014
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ha ha ha, you said "pile" lol. . pro carpet cleaning sounds good or see if we can get another carpet maybe? Mark you cant stop racing at mansfield dude, remember last year when we ran a venoms only class? that worked ok.
As for club numbers, maybe we should start doing a club championship like broxstowe does, Different classes etc. So maybe now is a good time to get together as a club as put some ideas forward to increase numbers and make the club even better than it is.
I'm not there tomorrow night because of some bull crap happening at work but if anything is decided please let me know
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Old 15-07-2014
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Going back to what spybot put at the beggining of this thread, Sundays once a month and have it as a finals/trophy meeting, points gathered every wednesday and the sunday has last round of qualifying and 3 leg finals, what are the thoughts on that?
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Last edited by dicky14; 15-07-2014 at 01:51 PM. Reason: crop spelling, doh
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Old 15-07-2014
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Don't know what the problem on Wednesday was It reet bad but then Sunday it was fine again I had plenty of grip, just one of those x files moments maybe . But we do need more people on Sundays I've been most of the time when in between cars is the only time I have not made it but ask Gareth on Wednesday about the numbers we need to keep it running and we have been missing a few regulars through one thing or another but as the saying goes USE IT OR LOSE IT
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Old 15-07-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dicky14 View Post
Totally agree there Ian, the setup on venoms last year was radically different to pins and the only reason I wont use foams is, we don't race them in any other championship and they would trash the tm2 drive train very quickly, maybe the carpet is on its last legs (hope not) or have the archery club done something to the carpet????
By the way Ian your car was uncatchable last week, so the foams obviously suit your driving style/setup
Rich on what grounds can you base foams trashing your drive-train more than other tyres. Best I heard was Gareth saying it wore his xray's down quick but how could this be so?
If the grip level they produce is so greater than say mini-pins then its understandable, and for a week or so when Gareth used them they were as there saying goes "awesome" until he got beat then opted back to new mini-pins and was a second a lap faster. I have tried both back to back and mini-pins give you way more punch but at the cost of ever changing grip levels due to wear.
With foams the grip is not so good at start of the night as the carpet fluff is more obundant, but the level of consistency barely changes.
My V2 drive train wear is normal I would say with the centre pin onto the slipper wearing down only.
The additive is not altering the grip levels ,just look at 12th scale carpets etc its more likely all the fluff from new mini-pins ripping it up if anything.
I clearly cannot see much point in forcing us into our own class as min-pins clearly have an advantage over foams or everyone would be on them , oh wait that's right Mr.Mkeag won last week for the first time , so lets make them race on their own.
I for one won't be turning up until sense is seen , numbers haven't been great just lately so just alienating some of us is clearly going to make it better.

Steve Ellis
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Old 15-07-2014
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The increase in drive train wear on my buggy is because the foams are harder than mini pins. The shock of hitting a rumble at speed is sent straight to the out drives. The 'give' in mini pins/spikes dampens this. It's certainly not grip related.

The fluff was really bad on wednesday evening. The worst I've seen it. It was wrapping around one of my driveshaft and a clump was collecting on the rear bumper each race. The average power of the buggies at Mansfield has increased over the last year, it seems new pins are needed to keep them under control. It goes against the 'slow is smooth, smooth is fast' ethos.

Steve's experience with pins vs foams is spot on. Foams are slower but more consistent and I for one can't justify the cost of replacing tyres every week to remain competitive.

Maybe limiting motors to 13.5 or 10.5 blinky is the way to go to ensure longevity of the carpet?
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Old 15-07-2014
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I find your reason quite shakey there Ian, i would assume the foam to have as much give as a mini-pin would ,as to make an impact onto a tyre big enough to induce excessive force to wear pins attached to wishbones and drive trains via diffs etc would be so much that a mini pin would rim out , thus creating a harder impact than the foam clad.These forces are soaked up via your shocks etc your axles and drives dont move any further that cause wear this way.
You can only argue wear rates down to traction and braking , and as mini-pins clearly have more of this when newish , they should obviously wear your gear down faster than foams.
As mini-pins balloon out under excessive throttle and wheel slip the contact area becomes less , thus compounding lack of grip even more.
You just dont get that with foams ,just a constantish level grip.It may not be the quickest but i find its easily the most user and driver friendly tyre.
Maybe we should make it the only tyre we use and there will maybe less excuses and blaming it on using bald pins etc.
And maybe the track will stop fluffing up so much ,thats all your carpet pile wearing down.
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Old 15-07-2014
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Sorry Steve I don't think I was clear.

It's not the outright force that does it but rather the harder foams work the suspension harder at a minute/micro level leading to more movement between the dogbone and out drives. A little tamiya anti wear grease makes a big difference. Again, it's not grip related, I think it's referred to as dogbone plunge. In every other part of the drivetrain the wear rate is reduced.

Ostracising racers for choosing to run a different tyre isnt going to help the club's attendance.
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Old 15-07-2014
rossiracer rossiracer is offline
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I dont no if my parts have worn any quicker since using foams I only run them as a money saving alternative I use the same addative that I would put on my mini pin tyres so I dont no ware this is going to end up but broxtowe dont run mini pins to save the carpet im not sayingto follow the other clubs but to run a round with only 2/3 drivers in seems a bit pointless to me so u either allow us to run with everyone else or ban them can it be put to a vote with everyone racing so there is a fare outcome to this matter
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