New Racer

[Hesketh racing]

Hi All

I'm Dan.

I've been bashing various Tamiya cars for a couple of years, and want to pop down at some point in April, to join the club and have a go on your outdoor track.

As a racing virgin, ideally I could do with a mentor, but will settle for any help i can get!

I've recently purchased a Team Associated b44.2

But could really do with some advice on the following:

- Decent paint. I've been using the Tamiya stuff, and It flakes off as soon as you look at it? Any advice on a decent brand?

- Tyres. I could do with something for the track, but also a harder compound for hard dirt/tarmac

- Esc and Motor. I was looking at a Team Orion vortex R10 - any feed back?

-Servo. I was looking at Savox servos. Any advice on these?

- Battery. I think it will need to be a sadle pack to fit in my car, but could do with a decent brand.

With terms of budget, I'd say within reason anything goes, but a slightly cheaper option would also be good.

I would really appreciate any advice that you can give.

Many Thanks

Dan Mercer

[Si Coe]

Hi - I'm Simon and I'll probably be running race control when you come along for the first time so just remind me I spoke to you here

I'll answer your point in order:
Paints - No idea. I don't paint my own shells.

Tyres - You will want Schumacher minispikes for our outdoor track (and also most other astro tracks too). The normal compound is yellow, which is extremely grippy in the dry, but doesn't work well in the wet. However our astro is exceptionally high grip and I actually prefer the slightly harder green compound for 4wds as a result. This avoids the grip roll yellows get on dry days and has the advantage of working in the wet too.
None of these are good bashing tyres as they wear far too fast. However that wear rate means after a season or two of racing you'll have a lot of 'too worn to race with but still functional' tyres you can bash about with.

ESC - The Orion is very popular, as is the Hobbywing V3.1 which is the same thing.

Servo's - Savox is the main brand of high end servo's you'll see. They certainly aren't the only people who make good servos but they are the most common.

Cells - Good ones are quite expensive if you want proper BRCA approved ones. Or you could just get some Turnigy Nanotechs from Hobbyking. These are a lot cheaper, and work just as well. Can't use them for regionals but fine for club meetings.

[Gavin Collingwood]

Hi dan first of all it's nice to hear from new racers

Firstly what tamiya paint are you using as I spray many shells using tamiya and it's as good as any, there are two types PS (polycarbonate) and TS (acrylic) YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE IT'S THE PS PAINT. The polycarbonate paint flexes with the bodyshell as it's bends if you use acrylic it will just fall off when you bend the shell.
Secondly if you are already using the tamiya PS paint then you mustn't be washing the bodyshell either at all or very well, you need to get rid of any grease or contaminents before painting.

Tyres- basically on our track and most other tracks we use Schumacher yellow mini spikes when it's dry and ballistic buggy green mini spike when wet
And on Tarmac for bashing just use the same but use your old worn ones

Speedo and motor
The Orion R10 is a superb speedo I currently use it along with the HPI flux motors which are super quick and a very good price too

Personally I'd avoid savox as they don't last long and the gears easily break.
I would recommend sanwa servos and xpert rc servos

Most lipos are pretty similar but which ever brand you choose more important is the C rating the higher the C rating the better power output and punch you will have

My advice on budget would be simple, "If you buy cheap you buy twice"
In this sport you generally get what you pay for....

[Hesketh racing]

Hi Si, and Gavin

Thanks for your responses, you've certainly given me something about think about.

Paint - I've been using the Acrylic paint - Thanks Gavin for pointing me towards the PS paint.

Tyres - Thanks for your feedback on these. The Schumacher Mini spike greens sound promising.

Esc and Motor: Thanks for the comments on the Orion. This goes top of my list. What brushless turn motor would you advise for a newbie, wanabe racer?

Servo: Thanks for the advice on the Sanwa and Xpert servos.
In your experience what is the trade off like, comparing 0-60 degree turning time, against the weight of the servo? Am I better off going for a lighter servo, or a quicker turning servo?.... Or am I getting a bit too nerdy about this?

Cells: Thanks for the input. Will have to spend a bit more time looking into these.

Kind regards

Dan

[spennyy2k]

Tyre wise you want yellow shumacher mini spike, the greens are ballistic buggy and are for use in the wet. Weight of a servo isn't really a issue it's speed and torque you want, xpert servos are really good, not cheap but we'll worth it, http://answer-rc.com/uk/en/1397-xper...rt-48-66v.html is what I use but http://www.rccarshop.co.uk/index.php...-4-8-6-6v.html would be good enough

[Si Coe]

In theory you want a faster servo. You need a moderate amount of torque but most good servo's have more than enough for a 1/10th scale - this is more a 1/8th problem.
The weight of the servo is more important for balance issues than anything else. The ACE 1015 in my 210 is actually rather heavy, but thats good because other 210 owners use an underservo weight instead.

Whilsts its true you get what you pay for, Gavin and I disagree on the subject of value. You can often get 99% of the performance for 70% of the cost. For some that missing 1% really matters but for most club racers, even the good ones it doesn't. You can spend a lot less and still be competitive and have fun.

[Gavin Collingwood]

With respect si, I'm saying you can't pay sod all and expect it to be decent. Orion R10 you will not have a problem with they're superb dan.

And with regards to your advice on the Schumacher greens ... How the hell can a harder compound tyre be better in the wet?
Dan the choice in the wet it simple, ballistic buggy green mini spike (which the majority use, or Schumacher silver

Also the hobby wing and Orion are completely different speedos??
Sorry to nip pick si but some of your info is incorrect

[Si Coe]

Yellows in the wet is a chemistry thing, not a softness thing. Actually its not even true to say Greens are 'harder' than Yellows - they use a very different type of rubber make up which causes them to behave quite differently.
I'm really surprised you didn't know this Gavin - try it! Test a set of greens vs yellows on a damp track and I promise you'll find the greens work better. Yes Ballistics are better on a really wet track but in between greens work surprisingly well.

[spennyy2k]

http://www.racing-cars.com/scp/Produ...d_Inserts.html

This says greens are harder

[Si Coe]

Yes, but they are also made a totally different way from the yellows. Been searching threads for this but its a lot of trawling for limited info:

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59077&highlight=schumacher+tyre+c ompound

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthre...green+compound

There are others but the gist is that in damp/wet conditions greens work better than yellows.

This leads to the rather surprising sequence of:

Yellow - Dry
Green - Damp
Silver - Wet

Although as mentioned above few people use Schumacher silvers when Ballistic greens are better.

The point here is that Schumacher greens are more consistent than yellows. Yes they don't have the ultimate level of grip yellows do on a warm, dry track - but as many have noted with a 4wd on our super grippy astro yellows can have rather excessive levels of grip in those circumstances. Yellows also drop off badly in damp conditions whilst greens don't. So you can run all day on greens and always have a tyre that works.

Oh - and last but by no means least! These comments only apply to NEW sets of greens. Something about the rubber formula means greens harden up with age meaning that the old set you've got kicking around in the bottom of your pit box probably isn't that good in the damp at all!

As for the esc's
Try http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...-all-same.html
or
http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...orion-r10.html

or actually a whole bunch of other places too. HW make the Orion R10 Pro for them. Its physically the same unit but those sold as Orion's run different software so aren't compatible with HW programming boxes etc. This does mean that out of the box they come with different profiles so aren't the same to drive, but you can download R10 like profiles for the V3.1 and V3.1 like profiles for the R10.

Honestly Gav, I know I'm a terrible driver and a pretty lousy race controller, but you ought to know by now that knowing random crap is kinda my thing!

[budfish]

First thing I'd do is get some decent diff balls in your b44.2 ;-)

Dan just spend what ever you are comfortable with and remember that just because something is more expensive dosnt mean it's better

[Gavin Collingwood]

Si who cares how they're made?! They're harder and they don't work.. That's why you see at every regional and national the choice is simple, dry yellow, damp/wet bb green.

[Hesketh racing]

Hi Guys

Many thanks for all your feedback, and links. It'll give me plenty to go on.

A couple more questions for the community:

- What turn motor would be suitable for a new racer like me?
- My kit comes with 35w Shock oil. Is this likely to be a good starting point for the new track, or should I go for shock oil that is slightly lighter/heavier?

Thanks in advance

Dan

[johnnygibbon]

a good set up for your chassis should be found in the team associated manufacturers section on here , try the search feature if there is not an obvious thread for it. also try in the electrics section there is all the advice you need for a basic set up for astro and then when you are at the track it can be more finely adjusted to suit burys track....although no one nos exactly what that is at the min,,,,,high grip astro for sure though and ceramic diff balls of course ( buds balls is my choice and most of Burys )
tbh everyones set up will differ but a good basic set up from a team driver will point you in the right direction
hope this helps get your car dialed in and also stops gav and si arguing over compounds, i belive si has a masters degree in chemistry, but gav is a little bit faster on track
so its any ones guess really
schumacer yellows is my best advice for bury in general and most other tracks to
hope you get a race in soon see you at the track

[Gavin Collingwood]

"A little faster?" Only about 3 laps...... Haha ;-)

[rob m]

Schumacher greens and yellows both work good on burys astro, i used greens most of last year as je were selling then at £4.50 . The greens even work when track is wet, but the yellows do have the edge over the greens as they keep the grip as they wear but greens loose grip. But for 4wd greens may be better for bury...........

[Gavin Collingwood]

When I drove 4wd last year I found either green bb's where best in all weather or yellow mini spikes on the rear with either yellow cut staggers on the front or 2wd yellow mini spikes on the front worked best

[andy110m]

If this is your first experience of racing, I'd advise against throwing hundreds of pounds at this. As Si said the value of something is not in its price, its what you get out of it. As such the top line branded stuff, whilst being fantastic, you aren't going to extract that performance.

I'd advise you have a look at this link. http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145946
This is a local racer, you'll likely see him at Bury, who's used budget gear instead of the Orion and similar stuff. His comments are interesting, but even more interesting to you. The speedo he's got is £28!

My lad has recently started racing and I got him one, and a Hobbyking motor. Both are amazing. And I'm not saying for the money, they're good, I'm saying these things complete. At my local club, Ribble in Preston, these are appearing everywhere.

If you want some more information, watch this, especially the part comparing the unit to an Orion at the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRMoj1WDyEs

Just one mans opinion but I'd be looking at these. Best of luck with what ever you go for. Hope to see you racing soon.

[budfish]

Just looked at the price of the hobbyking turnigy track star stuff and you can get esc 120amp with 760 amp burst with boost
8.5t motor
Servo 0.07s and tg

$111 that's £80ish

It's a no brainer I'm ordering some just to see what the are like all are instock in the uk

[Joshyjol]

I use the turnigy trackstar 120A turbo esc and it's brilliant. Just look after it, watch temps and don't cook it and it will serve you well. Been using mine for a year now with speed passion motors and the combo is still going strong! There are some good buys out there. My radio (flysky) cost £30, ESC cost £28, motor cost £28 (from rcmart) and my cells cost something like £25ish each (nano-techs). All have served me well as a beginner racer and are still more than good enough for the job. Last time I was at ribble I got 3rd in the B so the set up is more than capable (granted it wasn't a busy meet so that pushed me up abit haha).