rumours rumours

[mobile chicane]

Heard a roumour today that the brca are concidering making 10th off road 5 cell and that 7.4 v lipos wont be allowed ( unless of course you devise some kind of restrictor circuit ?)

aparently it was in radio race car although I haven seen it myself.



getting a bit miffed though as I've got one of the brca aproved lipos and now I may not be able to use it at even club level if the decisaion is made to run 5 cell.

[spenner]

It won't be for this year, and i always thought it was the drivers that has to submit the proposal ie.. for lipos etc.

[Cockerill]

As far as I'm aware it is us, the racers, that make/change the rules. I don't think the BRCA can just change a rule as major as this without it been proposed and voted on at the AGM.

[Chrislong]

Many Touring Car organisations have spent the last two years, trying to slow the cars in an effort to reduce the 'melt-downs' and breakages.
In most International events, only modified motors are used. For this Class in Touring Cars: BRCA, Japan and all EFRA events use five cells. It could even be that Off-Road go to five cell in the future to keep cell packs the same in the 1/10th Electric Classes. Certainly we know it works in 2WD and I suspect 4WD would also be OK.

So where does the LiPo cell fit into these structures?? There is a possibility/rumour of 3v Lipo which could well mean 5 cell maximum / Lipo can run together, if allowed etc....

But then there is the new issue of the 5 cells packs being used/abused even harder, and so pack deterioration is increased. Id also expect the issue of "The team drivers get better packs" coming up again, which would be a shame.

In my opinion we should not go to 5 cell racing. Right now we have reliable cells (post IB4200's), and a level playing field in that anyone has the ability to make there own car go far faster than they require and last 5 minutes easily. So now each of us are making our own cars go as fast as our ability and conditions allow; granted, some go faster and crash more, but im sure we all have at times... although my opinion is open for change, and I'll listen to the pro's and con's before I make any further judgement.

The rules are proposed by the racers at the AGM, and have to be discussed and seconded to be accepted. So if anyone feels strongly about 5 cells and proposes it, there is a good chance of it being allowed. Equally if anyone attends and opposes this, then it may not get accepted. Its all about who wants what and which has more votes.

There may be a number of people who want 5 cell maximum, and many more than that who don't want it. But Human nature will mean those that want the change strongly enough will be at the AGM, whereas those of us who don't want the rule won't be at the AGM & we'll all think "Somebody else will oppose it". So guys, lets gauge the support here and get behind the vote rather than miss the AGM, get a rule which the majority doesn't want (but the majority stayed home) and complain about the result afterwards. that'd be a shame.

Chris

[Lee]

It really would make no difference at all to our class, if we lost a cell then we would just drop a motor, ie from 5.5 to 4.5, we wont struggle for run time as it doesn`t actually effect it that much. But we will be working the cells harder.

Mr BRCA, dont try and fix it if it isnt broken

[RogerM]

I agree with every word Chris says here (except the 3V lipo .... I know nothing about htat so can't comment)

[ben]

Me and rich lowe tried 5 cells at a york club night and tbh the only thing that changed was the smoother power input it gave. I still had pretty much the same run time. But if we went to 5 cells it sounds a silly thing but wouldnt all of the cell slots in the chassis be too long lol.

[albertobdq]

Hi guys, please notice that using 6v cells suffer a lot more and is life is reduced.

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by Lee

It really would make no difference at all to our class, if we lost a cell then we would just drop a motor, ie from 5.5 to 4.5, we wont struggle for run time as it doesn`t actually effect it that much. But we will be working the cells harder.

Mr BRCA, dont try and fix it if it isnt broken

actually it does
since moving to 5 cell, even the top TC drivers (olly jeffries, and world champ and moore can dump, on new fresh cells!
take a cell away and the amp draw goes up giving less duration and life ( please note i am refering to current TC cars, BUT they are exeriencing this and the reality is all the same)
lee last line, spot on, apart from allowing lipo as BRCA TC have

Originally Posted by RogerM

I agree with every word Chris says here (except the 3V lipo .... I know nothing about htat so can't comment)

same here but i feel 5 cell is a wrong move, it will make it more of a battery war, pumping up costs to compete at the top, yup im pro lipo but joe public can buy exactly the same Cell im supplied by trakpower, ask chris and tom what they think to old/used lipo's (they have a pack each of mine which are over a year old and been used allot, both will tell you there ok and as good as new) that will not be the case with 5 cell packs
i like ease of use, no messing around and best of all good life and performance

ive not heard of 3 volt lipo either?

Originally Posted by albertobdq

Hi guys, please notice that using 6v cells suffer a lot more and is life is reduced.

fully agree

[mark christopher]

the other thing to remember is, how many cars are designed round 6 cells, in saddle or 4x2?

all the TC's use a stick pack layout (b4 style) so removing a cell is relativly easy, wont altering a saddle car to 3x2 cause a new design or layout to keep a balance?, more manufature costs, passed to end user ie US

[Lee]

Mark, they only started using silly winds last year though, the year before i think 4.5 was about as wild as they got, now they use 2,5 etc.

I gree with what your saying, i see no benefit in losing a cell in off road

[Chrislong]

I heard 3v Lipo wasn't possible, then I heard "There are suggestions of a new cell technology of 3.0V" from a guy who's word I have never doubted. So, it may not exist, but it may be something early on in development or at idea stage. It may never happen.

[Chrislong]

I see two benefits which are far outweighed by the negatives.

- reduction in weight, most of our cars are now miles away from the minimum weight. Although it isn't a hugely significant weight saving, its enough to make a difference.

- smoothness of power, it may/maynot be a good thing, I think it would be a good thing in most cases. its debatable.



Here's a new suggestion. How about proposing an adjustment to the minimum weight? Go back 10 years and I was able to get close, with my blade I had to weight it up. But currently, I need to loose between 100-200g per car (depending on tyres) to get close again, and from what I have observed, this is the norm' for the majority now.

[Zedman]

Take a look at full scale racing, lets start with rallying, now consider why they banned the mertro 6r4, the rs200 etc, was it because they were boring to drive, was it spectators yawned as the super cars went by and cheered as the "club" cars finaly came into view ?

NO AND HELL NO, I have seen these cars in action, I will never forget seeing one start an opposite lock before a ninety left on a dirt forest only to have it flick the opposite way and hook through the corner at a speed I thought was totaly immposible, I will never forget it.

I also know it wasnt the power of the car that made it possible, it was the driver using that power.

The reason they banned them was to make it safer for the driver in the car !!! we dont have drivers in our cars !!!

On to Formula 1, can anyone argue despite being at the forefront of technology they are the most boring races ever to watch, no overtaking no dicing, sigh, but yes they are safe for the drivers.

DONT let our sport go that way, keep it fast keep it powerfull, keep it wild, let the driver make the differance, sure put a weight limit on to make it even BUT PLEASE keep it fast furious and exciting )

Heavan forbid that you crash/roll/spin/power slide/powersteer/your RC car when you could trundle round the track in an orderly fashion relying on a forced pit stop to decide the outcome of the race

[RogerM]

Zedman .. when was teh last time you watched F1???

I still get up at daft AM to watch qualifying let alone the races!!!!

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by Lee

Mark, they only started using silly winds last year though, the year before i think 4.5 was about as wild as they got, now they use 2,5 etc.

I gree with what your saying, i see no benefit in losing a cell in off road

true but 5 cell was only legal for 2008, year before was 6 cell they had 3.5 last year in 5 cell

Originally Posted by Chrislong

I heard 3v Lipo wasn't possible, then I heard "There are suggestions of a new cell technology of 3.0V" from a guy who's word I have never doubted. So, it may not exist, but it may be something early on in development or at idea stage. It may never happen.

could be a new cell technology, there is a 3volt cell buts its no good for rc in its current state and im sure its not lipo

Originally Posted by Chrislong

I see two benefits which are far outweighed by the negatives.

- reduction in weight, most of our cars are now miles away from the minimum weight. Although it isn't a hugely significant weight saving, its enough to make a difference.

- smoothness of power, it may/maynot be a good thing, I think it would be a good thing in most cases. its debatable.



Here's a new suggestion. How about proposing an adjustment to the minimum weight? Go back 10 years and I was able to get close, with my blade I had to weight it up. But currently, I need to loose between 100-200g per car (depending on tyres) to get close again, and from what I have observed, this is the norm' for the majority now.

chris weigh your car with lipo, my b4 and d4 are under weight, job done!
light cars, good power, cheap cell costs, less maintance for cells, good life, if you want to control speed restrict motor wind, 7,5 for 2wd 5.5 4wd, even better use the throttle as a throttle no on off switch

Originally Posted by RogerM

Zedman .. when was teh last time you watched F1???

I still get up at daft AM to watch qualifying let alone the races!!!!

still boring tho, TC or bikes to watch is far better

[Chrislong]

Lipo is the future. Lets get this proposed at AGM and close the door on this 5 cell maximum possibility.

Limiting brushless AND brushed winds is a good suggestion. But with the brushless rating being different between the brands, it needs to be on a uniform rating accross the brands, such as the true KV figure. Something equivalent to 10 turn brushless i recon.

Another tin of worms when it comes to scrutineering. All it would take is a label and can cheat the rules. Although testing of brushless would be easy - put 1volt through and measure the revs.

Id like it to stay as it is, with the addition of hardcased Lipo and the upper voltage limit allowed made 7.4v.

I don't find F1 interesting, not even the highlights unless there are lots of crashes. WRC is far better to watch.

Chris

[Lee]

There is no reason to limit anything in off road, we currently can go much faster( in a straight line) but we chose not too. I see no gain in limiting anything, it only creates more work for scrutineers and some controversy if someone is faster.

[glypo]

Originally Posted by Chrislong

Lipo is the future. Lets get this proposed at AGM and close the door on this 5 cell maximum possibility.

Sounds very wise to me. Who cares about NiMH when we have fantastic LiPo on the horizon of racing at last. We should all ignore what's going on with on-road, it's a decreasing market, so not wise if off-road takes any leads from them. If LiPo gets alienated before it even gets a chance I will be annoyed.

[albertobdq]

That "3v cells" could be the A123 Li-Fe cells wich gives 3.3v per element. This technology is being tested for some racers ith great results since cells can be charged much quicker and had a longer life even ith high current draws