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  #21  
Old 07-12-2013
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Maybe in 25yrs time just like the Avante you will be able to buy these as a release that wasn't released
So to clarify, thats a release of release that wasn't released? 25 years in the making the TRF 512
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Last edited by Col; 16-12-2013 at 09:52 PM.
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  #22  
Old 07-12-2013
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I might have overlooked it, but nobody seems to have mentioned this so far: Tamiya is a company that has two focuses: Static Scale Models, and Radio Control Models. I haven't got exact numbers, but they sure don't do Static models on the side - in fact, they once started out doing RC models on the side!

And then if you take their RC business seperately, their core business is hobby grade vehicles (mainly RTR) that offer an easy (re)-entry into the RC hobby. They do this by means of scale models, nostalgia (re-releases) and simple constructions.

They offer racing classes specifically for their cars, and then also offer a step up - dedicated club racing models and classes - on the side. And then finally a tiny part of their sales comes from directly from TRF cars.

Of course, the TRF keeps up a reputation that draws people to their higher end models in general (also non-TRF). However, this part of their operation takes a relatively big amount of investment for the cash they get for it. Look at the releases they've been making in the past 5 years, and they core business seems to have become that which makes them easy money: Hobby Grade RTRs for (re)-entry in the hobby. Also, to me they seem to aim on their bigger markets of old: Japan and the USA.

You don't have to like that (and I sure don't), but in that perspective this decision is understandable. They don't currently have a good distribution platform in Europe for buggy racing - to build that up it costs extra money and time they don't want to spend, and with the current market position not working out they seem to pull the plug on TRF's offroad operation (at least for the European market, but quite possibly alltogether).

One can only imagine if they might have extended & expanded their operation if Lee in fact won the Worlds (in 2WD)...
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  #23  
Old 07-12-2013
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I am not too sure if Tamiya are still interested in their TRF team at all. Also in touring car, there have been reports of Marc Rheinard being frustrated due to a lack of mechanic support from Japan.
I really hope rumours are true and Lee Martin will sign with Yokomo. Aside from being my favourite brand, they really proved their commitment in the past few years. They are serious about racing.
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  #24  
Old 10-12-2013
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Originally Posted by Neil Skull View Post
You guys are funny, You are in your warm House with no idea about the Economy in General, Its really really tough making Business, especially in RC, I am sure that the decision was not made lightly or willingly. Tamiya TRF make great Models but it costs, to Make in Japan v China or Taiwan is not cheap to do. Its a battle many Manufacturers face. But to get the best its what must happen, You have to pay for the good stuff or use something else. The sad fact is many people bought the other cheap stuff meaning Tamiya can't earn enough money to Pay for Lee Martins wage. Don't forget he was a paid employee.
I wish Lee well and its a real shame it ended,its a sad sign of the economy not some conscious bad decision to upset anyone.
I can tell you its not just Tamiya who cant pay for pro drivers. many of the top Brands are in same situation and not able to pay a wage for someone to race.
You should love the product for what it is not what the economy forces business into doing.
Bad form from Neil in my opinion. How to endear people to you and your brand, insult their intelligence! I am sure many people on oople have an understanding of the economy at least equal to, if not better than yours.

I also take issue with the point about manufacturing costs. Just because its a Japanese brand, doesn't mean it has to be produced in Japan. Apple are one of the biggest companies in the world, where are their products made? I don't see many people complain about the quality of their products...

I work for a global company with an annual turnover of £1.2 billion. A huge part of our business is our own branded products, which are almost entirely all manufactured in China and Taiwan. Yes there are some cowboys churning out cheap nonsense that is often dangerous, but we have our own compliance lab for that, we test all products to ensure they meet all standards, approvals and legislation before they are launched.

The result, high quality products at Chinese / Taiwanese manufacturing costs. If the products in question are not equal to those from Japan, the UK or Europe then we don't accept them, its as simple as that.

If the RC brands in Japan aren't capable of sourcing such products then maybe they need to look at their internal processes!?
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  #25  
Old 10-12-2013
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It's probably a matter of culture too.
Have you seen Kyosho or Yokomo outsourcing anything outside the Japan?
As the result of that their quality is far more superior.
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  #26  
Old 10-12-2013
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That's my point though, Japan doesn't automatically mean better quality. If you give the Chinese a spec to work to then they often achieve it. Would Apple be using them otherwise? Samsung and HTC are also Taiwanese, I'd say that just about locks out the top end of the phone market and not a Japanese product in sight.
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  #27  
Old 10-12-2013
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Originally Posted by Skye View Post
Bad form from Neil in my opinion. How to endear people to you and your brand, insult their intelligence! I am sure many people on oople have an understanding of the economy at least equal to, if not better than yours.

I also take issue with the point about manufacturing costs. Just because its a Japanese brand, doesn't mean it has to be produced in Japan. Apple are one of the biggest companies in the world, where are their products made? I don't see many people complain about the quality of their products...

I work for a global company with an annual turnover of £1.2 billion. A huge part of our business is our own branded products, which are almost entirely all manufactured in China and Taiwan. Yes there are some cowboys churning out cheap nonsense that is often dangerous, but we have our own compliance lab for that, we test all products to ensure they meet all standards, approvals and legislation before they are launched.

The result, high quality products at Chinese / Taiwanese manufacturing costs. If the products in question are not equal to those from Japan, the UK or Europe then we don't accept them, its as simple as that.

If the RC brands in Japan aren't capable of sourcing such products then maybe they need to look at their internal processes!?
It is half wits like you that give me little hope for the future. Neil is right. Look around at the number of Tamiya cars that race at your local club. In fact take a photo of ever Tamiya chassis that races at your club and post them on here. And then think about production cost, distributors profit, and retailers profit. And then think about flying a paid driver business class around the world, and then try to justify that cost.
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  #28  
Old 10-12-2013
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Originally Posted by dwp102 View Post
It is half wits like you that give me little hope for the future. Neil is right. Look around at the number of Tamiya cars that race at your local club. In fact take a photo of ever Tamiya chassis that races at your club and post them on here. And then think about production cost, distributors profit, and retailers profit. And then think about flying a paid driver business class around the world, and then try to justify that cost.
If you read my post again you moron, you will notice that I am not even referring to your points above so I would say that you are the intellectually challenged sub species here.

My points refer solely to insulting potential customers intelligence, and manufacturing costs and standards in the Asia Pacific region. If manufacturing was outsourced to a cheaper geography then just maybe there might be a few TRF cars at local clubs as the kits could be sold at more realistic prices.

That's it, end of story. All of your bull about paid drivers and business class travel is not relevant to my point, so crawl back under your rock and do us all a favour.
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  #29  
Old 10-12-2013
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Originally Posted by Skye View Post
If you read my post again you moron, you will notice that I am not even referring to your points above so I would say that you are the intellectually challenged sub species here.

My points refer solely to insulting potential customers intelligence, and manufacturing costs and standards in the Asia Pacific region. If manufacturing was outsourced to a cheaper geography then just maybe there might be a few TRF cars at local clubs as the kits could be sold at more realistic prices.

That's it, end of story. All of your bull about paid drivers and business class travel is not relevant to my point, so crawl back under your rock and do us all a favour.
Tell me what the GBP/JPY was trading at in 2007, and tell me what it is trading at now...and then tell me how you sell a car at a competitive price when your cost advantage has been cut in half.
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  #30  
Old 10-12-2013
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Originally Posted by Skye View Post
If you read my post again you moron, you will notice that I am not even referring to your points above so I would say that you are the intellectually challenged sub species here.

My points refer solely to insulting potential customers intelligence, and manufacturing costs and standards in the Asia Pacific region. If manufacturing was outsourced to a cheaper geography then just maybe there might be a few TRF cars at local clubs as the kits could be sold at more realistic prices.

That's it, end of story. All of your bull about paid drivers and business class travel is not relevant to my point, so crawl back under your rock and do us all a favour.
Or are you simply advocating slave labor when you say outsourcing to a cheaper region? People need enough money to eat you know
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  #31  
Old 10-12-2013
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I suggest you ask Yokomo that question seeing as they are putting kits out there in the same ball park as the Schumacher's and Losi's of this world.

Simply though, if the competition is lowering prices then you need either incredble brand equity and a strong network of dealerships to continue to achieve sufficient sales in the face of such competition, or if you don't have this luxury then you need to at least try to be competitive.

Those who continue to do the same and hope for a different result are insane.
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  #32  
Old 11-12-2013
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Originally Posted by Skye View Post
I suggest you ask Yokomo that question seeing as they are putting kits out there in the same ball park as the Schumacher's and Losi's of this world.

Simply though, if the competition is lowering prices then you need either incredble brand equity and a strong network of dealerships to continue to achieve sufficient sales in the face of such competition, or if you don't have this luxury then you need to at least try to be competitive.

Those who continue to do the same and hope for a different result are insane.
Mabey Tamiya already see the light and are cutting their losses rather than flogging a dead horse, although with Kuroda's polices they may reconsider their position at some point in the future Anyway on a more positive note I wish Lee all the best and hope that he gets hooked up with Team C in the future...As I think the TM2 is an awesome car
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  #33  
Old 11-12-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwp102 View Post
Mabey Tamiya already see the light and are cutting their losses rather than flogging a dead horse, although with Kuroda's polices they may reconsider their position at some point in the future Anyway on a more positive note I wish Lee all the best and hope that he gets hooked up with Team C in the future...As I think the TM2 is an awesome car
Would that be the same TM2 designed and produced in China??

Agree though that it is a great car.
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  #34  
Old 11-12-2013
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Originally Posted by Skye View Post
Would that be the same TM2 designed and produced in China??

Agree though that it is a great car.
Yes and China is not Japan
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  #35  
Old 11-12-2013
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Is there any chance that Lee Martin is happy to move on? Maybe the split was mutual. Certainly he has the talent to win big with a more supportive brand. I was always surprised he stuck with Tamiya with all the points that others have already made against their TRF offroad efforts. There's a good chance Lee might be happy to be out of his contract and a free agent looking for a better team. I dunno? Lee you out there?
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  #36  
Old 11-12-2013
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Originally Posted by dwp102 View Post
Yes and China is not Japan
Exactly my point, a product doesnt have to be manufactured in Japan to be of a good quality.

Team C - China
Apple - China
HTC - Taiwan
Samsung - Taiwan
Garmin - Taiwan

These are just off the top of my head examples of premium quality products being manufactured in lower cost geographies.

I think we have probably done this to the death now, but my point remains that maybe the Japanese should entrust some of the production of their products to their near neighbours. They could maintain the same production standards and reduce their costs. Savings which could be fed down the food chain which would in turn make their product more appealing to the wider market.
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  #37  
Old 11-12-2013
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LOL at you lot.

TRF is not about profits.
Lee told me long time ago that its an extremely small percentage to the overall turnover of Tamiya.
TRF is there to prove that their product can compete at the highest level and they have done that through Lee's talents.

I must say that the insults flying around is the reason many top drivers don't come on oOple anymore to voice their opinions and give the help to some that need it.... Not nice to see insults flying around no matter how strong you feel about a subject
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  #38  
Old 11-12-2013
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Just to point out as some may not be aware, but Tamiya DO outsource much of the manufacturing of their r/c kits to other countries - the Philippines is where most of Tamiya's cheaper kits are made.

Tony hit the nail on the head tho, TRF sales are a fraction of Tamiya's total sales volume, the vast majority coming from their beginner/club touring cars. TRF was never meant to be an attempt at becoming a volume seller of competition kits, it was always just a showcase for their engineering skills, to prove that they can do it

Considering, on the touring car side at least, they are the most successful manufacturer in terms of world championships, and probably have the smallest team of any competition based manufacturer, I'd say their strategy has been pretty successful
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  #39  
Old 11-12-2013
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I will be keeping my TRF cars and plan now to upgrade the 201 to XM spec. I had a look at one last week and the quality of the machinig was very high indeed, i indeed said it was very expensive and it still is, but you get what you pay for in life plus it would be good to have a few being used in the UK still. Just ashame that i have to get the parts from the other side of the world.

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  #40  
Old 11-12-2013
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As a retailer we tried so hard to get TRF cars brought in properly as we could have a one point sold everyone we could get thats TC and Offroad Lee was a great ambassador of there product but there marketing department didnt use it well enough IMO.
Im hoping whoever he drives for now will realise what an asset he is.
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