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  #461  
Old 01-02-2016
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The weight balance is in the ballpark of 65-70% up front - so pretty much opposite from RWDs, that have this on the rear. It works best on low-bite surfaces like clay, dirt, grass, on bumpy tracks and in dusty or wet conditions. That said, with some setup work I've also got good performance from the car on dry, low-medium bite astroturf (Kampenhout, Belgium) I wouldn't vouch for its performance for high-bite carpet tracks like the EOS though
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  #462  
Old 29-06-2016
alien racing alien racing is offline
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Hello Origineelreclamebord !

Like you know, perhaps, I am racing my personal FWD Offroad prototype (The Alien Racing Ynot) since february this year.

So of course I am far far away from your FWD Offroad car'setting knowledge.

That's why I wanted to ask you some question to help me better understand my car. Hope you don't laugh at me...

So even if I haven't find the best set ups for carpet and Astro tracks (I have find something good for Dirt track ) , I can see that I have a big difficulties with jumps without speed (just after a corner for example).

I'am driving my Ynot with a 13.5 motor just like it's authorized in France (Standard category).

So, each time I have to make a jump without speed just after a corner, my car takes not enough speed to jump it. It's very difficult for whoops for example.

Do you (or did you) have the same problem ? If you did, how did you cure this ?

Thanks for your answer...

Another question about the spacers you put underneth the shock pistons : 10mm front and 3mm rear (as I have seen weel) :

-> What is the purple of these spacers and what is there impact on the car efficiency and comportment ?

-> Do you still have enough droop travel ? What is your ground clearance when you lift up the chassis at the max ?

And my last one if you don't mind

-> Did you test the front gear diff with a very hard compound of oil inside ? What is the max you have test and what is your opinion ?

Thank you a lot if you could find some time to answer all my questions...

Phil
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  #463  
Old 29-06-2016
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Hi Phil,

Thanks for your message, and of course I can help out! I'm at the Kampenhout GP in Kampenhout, Belgium this weekend; do you have the opportunity to stop by? We can exchange ideas, and it may also give the opportunity to share insights about the FWD Buggies and compare them (to explain where improvement may be possible)

Best Regards,
Paul
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  #464  
Old 30-06-2016
alien racing alien racing is offline
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Unfortunatly, I will not be in Kampenhout this week end. It's quite far from my Home (Sochaux in France where Peugeot car was born 6 hours of travel) and I was not sure in February to be efficient enough to race at this so big event.

And I still be not sure about that !!!

If you can, please take some video of your runs with your FWD. I'm quite sure it will help me to understand some things...

If things goes better and better with my Ynot, I will try to enter the Kampenhout GP next year...

Anyway, about my questions, perhaps could you find the words to explain ?
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  #465  
Old 01-07-2016
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I'll come back to this after the GP weekend
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  #466  
Old 01-07-2016
alien racing alien racing is offline
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Great !!!

I wish You a lot of fun at the GP.

Don't Forget to make some vidéo !!!
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  #467  
Old 06-07-2016
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finally got round to taking a couple of pics of my front wheel drive, it had its first proper test on grass tonight, i know its quite good on slippy stuff from previous testing but also seems good on grass, loads of steering, quite good traction, braking however is hilarous.....
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  #468  
Old 06-07-2016
kengor kengor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alien racing View Post
Hello Origineelreclamebord !

Like you know, perhaps, I am racing my personal FWD Offroad prototype (The Alien Racing Ynot) since february this year.

So of course I am far far away from your FWD Offroad car'setting knowledge.

That's why I wanted to ask you some question to help me better understand my car. Hope you don't laugh at me...

So even if I haven't find the best set ups for carpet and Astro tracks (I have find something good for Dirt track ) , I can see that I have a big difficulties with jumps without speed (just after a corner for example).

I'am driving my Ynot with a 13.5 motor just like it's authorized in France (Standard category).

So, each time I have to make a jump without speed just after a corner, my car takes not enough speed to jump it. It's very difficult for whoops for example.

Do you (or did you) have the same problem ? If you did, how did you cure this ?

Thanks for your answer...

Another question about the spacers you put underneth the shock pistons : 10mm front and 3mm rear (as I have seen weel) :

-> What is the purple of these spacers and what is there impact on the car efficiency and comportment ?

-> Do you still have enough droop travel ? What is your ground clearance when you lift up the chassis at the max ?

And my last one if you don't mind

-> Did you test the front gear diff with a very hard compound of oil inside ? What is the max you have test and what is your opinion ?

Thank you a lot if you could find some time to answer all my questions...

Phil
With Fwd, the drive wheels are dragging the car rather than pushing the car. So the dynamics is slightly different. Where my standard rwd 2wd car runs 8.5T, my FF210 runs 6.5T and it handles this power quite nicely. I fear with the 13.5t you're not getting enough power down to make the jump?

Re. The shock spacers, I will let Orb reply you on that lol ......
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  #469  
Old 07-07-2016
alien racing alien racing is offline
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Hi Kengor,

Youre feedback about power is very interresting. Thanks.

Unfortunatly, I have no experience on Prop 2WD offroad cars (I have drawn and built many On road cars - 1/12 / Touring / Side car - but not a lot of offroad... )

So, I didn't thought about the difference of needed power between rear and front WD.

This we, I will race a little race in Alsace (dirt track) and I will give a test to a modified motor (6.5T you say ?).

Thank you Kengor !
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  #470  
Old 07-07-2016
kengor kengor is offline
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you're welcome and hope it goes well for you!
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  #471  
Old 08-07-2016
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So,finally, to answer your questions - I hope it's worth the wait

Jumps
For jumping, it is important that your car's driven wheels can spin up (increase in speed) when leaving the ramp. The motor will make less RPM under load, so if the car leaves the ramp, the motor will rev up if you hold the throttle. That is, unless you're suffering from wheelspin, or another reason why the motor is already at its maximum RPM.

This is not only a FWD handling trait, this counts for RWD and 4WD as well. However, the FWD being a car that more easily has wheelspin, it can be more pronounced if you don't take it into account. Also, as Kengor pointed out, don't be afraid to run a powerful motor in it, FWD is stable anyway

Shocks
The spacers are part of the geometry I developed for the FF210, and are used to achieve the right amount of droop depending on the type of Durango shocks on the car (The 210V1 has longer shocks than the 210V2). As this answer might suggest, running spacers inside the shocks very much depends on the design of the car.

Diff
Diffs are as much dependent on grip levels as on driver preference. Myself, I prefer ball diffs in any 2WD because they cope much better with changes in grip levels throughout the day (think of wet vs. dry conditions) and between events (clay vs. astro) than gear diffs do.

That said, to answer your question: I have run a gear diff in prototypes. It gives more drive as long as there is good grip; also, generally you can run the oil a little thicker than a RWD, but it's easy to overcook, hampering cornering and stability.
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  #472  
Old 17-07-2016
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have any of you messed around with the angle of the front wishbones at all, currently my pivot pins are flat, but thinking of trying angling them forward to give pro dive, and back to give anti dive. as they are the driven wheels i have been wondering if the effects may be more similar to pro or anti squat on the rear of a 2wd with regards to traction. traction is already pretty good, just experimenting really as could do with keeping good traction and losing a bit of side bite on the front, its fine with 4wd fronts on the front, but with the wider rears you have to be quite careful to avoid grip roll!
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  #473  
Old 17-07-2016
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During the development I have experimented with the kickup. Having a few degrees is a good thing for off-power stability, for on-power I didn't find the differences very pronounced (although that was of course on a prototype). I didn't try posi-squat; it could work well on-power but I do expect a considerable negative effect off-power. No harm in trying I guess, if you have a LRC and HRC hanger?

For reducing side-bite up front, 4WD tires can help. When using wide/rear tires, have you tried the following?

- Moulded inserts. Reduces deformation & twisting of the carcass; I find the grip more consistent, the feel sharper and more confidence inspiring.
- Cutting multiple outer rows of spikes. Reduces sideways bite, particularly at speed, without the cost of sharpness and steering in slower sections.
- Applying glue on the outer wall of the tire. Similarly to removing spikes, it reduces sideways bite. In case of soft compound tires it may also stiffen up the outer wall of the carcass somewhat.
- Widen the car to 250mm. It's not an actual change to the tires, but the room to play with this varies from tire to tire. With the Asso 12mm hex I run up front I can use a 1.5mm shim between hex and rim on each side with most tires (including Schumacher MiniSpikes).
- Check the rear bite. I find that on medium-high bite, having enough rear bite is crucial. If the rear end lacks grip, it may slide out, making the car hook. Sooner or later the rear picks up grip again, at which point the sideways forces become so big that the car simply grip rolls. I always use 4WD tires on the rear in combination with (very) soft inserts, so the car can utilize the 4WD tread and flex in the carcass to generate grip. For the rear it also makes sense to widen it as far as possible within the regulations in order to maximize stability.
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  #474  
Old 17-07-2016
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have removed the outer and inner spikes on the tyres i have been testing with (not the ones in the photo's!), will try taking another outer row off. width front and rear is 248mm so just legal. havent tried glue on the sidewalls, didnt even think of that. inserts are just standard foam but fairly hard, never even tried moulded inserts in the 30 odd years i have been racing!! havent really had any problem with the rear end of the car hooking at all, rear grip seems incredible really. have only used 2wd fronts though, will have to try the 4wd fronts on the rear to see what the difference is. raising the rear pivots on the chassis reduced the roll to the outside a bit, and when i made the carbon shock tower to replace the plastic one i revised the tie rod positions slightly too which has helped. the car is absolutely amazing fun to drive on low grip tarmac and gravel, its really stable and accelerates really well. it drives nicely on grass too, just has a little too much front end, as if it could do with more worn tyres, which obviously i cant really do as i would lose too much traction. hoping to get the rear wishbones printed in bridge this week instead of abs, might consider a run in the welsh league meeting then, although the abs rears have taken some good hits and not broken...... to change the roll centre and pivot angle is easy, the suspension mounting blocks are zx5 ones and have a good quantity of spacers to play with, all leftovers from my other 2wd

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  #475  
Old 21-07-2016
alien racing alien racing is offline
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Hi Paul, thanks a lot for your answer.

And sorry I give news only today...

Well, unfortunatly, I didn't have the opprtunity to test a powerfull motor. My rear suspension has boke just before...

i have a lot of work to redesign one (more stronger) for August but I hope finding the time for...

Thanks again...

Anyway, I have put a Youtube video of the Ynot handling on dirt for the last french championship in the ALIEN Racing Ynot post. If you put some time to look at it, feel free to give me your comments...
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  #476  
Old 21-07-2016
kengor kengor is offline
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Lee Martin ( UK & European 2WD/4WD Champion ) came to SHRCCC for a LMR Training day and taught me how to drive and setup my ORB FF210. See some footage of Lee driving my car and showing me how to take corners and jumps. After a quick few laps, he nailed it! Lee is truly an awesome driver!

https://youtu.be/-lQiYGjhCbc
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  #477  
Old 22-07-2016
alien racing alien racing is offline
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Very interresting video !!!

My Ynot as the same way to rebond after big jumps.

What motor ? 6.5 like you said before ?
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  #478  
Old 22-07-2016
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when landing off the big jumps, is it bottoming out thats throwing it back up at the front, suppose its hardly surprising with so much weight there, havent noticed it with mine, but the jump on our track is a tabletop and you can land nicely on the downramp if you get it right.
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  #479  
Old 22-07-2016
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It doesn't have enough pack up front, my car doesn't generally doesn't have these problems either. Pretty impressive what Lee can do with the car right off the bat, and thanks Kenny for posting the vid!
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  #480  
Old 23-07-2016
kengor kengor is offline
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Yeah - my FF210 still requires a bit of tweaking. Both Lee and Paul have given me some setup tips to try out. Paul re. the shocks bottoming out and Lee re. Diff setup to get more power down to the wheels ......

after seeing Lee drive the orb, it's pretty clear the FWD can be competitive in high grip dry conditions. Initially I was using the orb as a wet car, hence the setup. But I will be experimenting with it more and more in the dry at SHRCCC, conditions which shouldn't favour the Orb.
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