Starting a Fastrax Enduro .21 engine

[simonrhart]

Hi All,

I have recently bought a Fastrax Enduro .21 engine for my Losi 8ight EU but really struggling to get it started. It is really annoying as I want to race it as soon as possible.

I have a SMD starter box so twin motors but the engine gets stuck at top dead centre and refuses to turn over. It is actually quite hard to turn it by hand. I did hear they are hard engines to start and continue to have a pinch even after 10 or so tanks but I didn't think it would be this hard!

I am considering returning it and buying something else.

Anyone had this engine or offer any tips? I have tried heating the engine up using a hair dryer to around 75C - I don't have a heat gun.

On a side note, I just bought a Losi 8ight Mini and put some 2S LiPos in it and it flies! do you race these perhaps with the 10th scale buggies?

Cheers
Simon

[stumpiey]

a hairdryer wont get it hot enough, use a heat gun also wind the glow plug out a few turns

[Shaun_TLR]

I owned a hyper 8 nitro and had the same problem with it being stuck at TDC. At first and friend and I thought it must be a fault, but turns out it was just UBER UBER tight (and I'd maybe argue its at the cheaper end of the market for nitro toys).

In the end we took it into a local shop and he put it in a vice and just force it past TDC (obviously make sure the cylnder is clean if your opting for this). But of course we needed to do this alot whilst running it in, as every failed pull start attempted generally saw it stuck back at TDC.

The guy in the shop suggested the hairdryer but also said a soldering iron is a good way to warm it up if its particularly stubborn, but I recall we didn't mess about and just used the vice til she finally loosened up !

But don't take my word as gospel, as I'm a noob and someone will be along to shoot me out of the water v soon

[simonrhart]

I didn't think of using a soldering iron. I have a gas one with a blow torch end. The risk here is frying other components in the car. I guess I could place the tip of the iron on the engine block.

I'm wondering whether spending more money would prevent this kind of problem. i.e. I was debating on buying a novarossi - which is about twice the price of the Fastrax but as this is my first engine and I heard good reviews on the Fastrax, I opted for it as it's less of a issue if I screw it up.

I can turn the engine over by hand so no need for a vice which sounds slightly different in your case!

Cheers
Simon

[Shaun_TLR]

Originally Posted by simonrhart

I didn't think of using a soldering iron. I have a gas one with a blow torch end. The risk here is frying other components in the car. I guess I could place the tip of the iron on the engine block.

I'm wondering whether spending more money would prevent this kind of problem. i.e. I was debating on buying a novarossi - which is about twice the price of the Fastrax but as this is my first engine and I heard good reviews on the Fastrax, I opted for it as it's less of a issue if I screw it up.

I can turn the engine over by hand so no need for a vice which sounds slightly different in your case!

Cheers
Simon

Ah, well if you can turn it by hand then you have no where near the magnitude of issue we encountered. It was literally jammed fast and wouldnt move, let alone with a pullstart.

Soldering on the head is exactly what he suggested, but we didnt bothered as it wouldnt have been enough as would have just jammed again the next time id let it go cold and eturn to it after a few days. The guy said with cheaper tight engines, the only way to free them up is to run them in with hours and hours. I converted to electric, as Im lazy and like tp put toys away after playing with them and not have the issue of cleaning and actually "looking after" any of the mechanicals

[simonrhart]

Originally Posted by Shaun_TLR

Ah, well if you can turn it by hand then you have no where near the magnitude of issue we encountered. It was literally jammed fast and wouldnt move, let alone with a pullstart.

Soldering on the head is exactly what he suggested, but we didnt bothered as it wouldnt have been enough as would have just jammed again the next time id let it go cold and eturn to it after a few days. The guy said with cheaper tight engines, the only way to free them up is to run them in with hours and hours. I converted to electric, as Im lazy and like tp put toys away after playing with them and not have the issue of cleaning and actually "looking after" any of the mechanicals

Well I guess that sounds like its good for me then and doable.

I will try and use a soldering iron when I'm back. In the middle east right now.

Cheers
Simon

[bigt]

you need it up near 200f for running it in fella thirty quid for a decent engine heater try homegrown businesses on maxbashing

[Dombrasky]

Hi
Re; Mini eight, some1\10th tracks race micros if enough turn up,i know tiverton and mendip do (not sure on your area)
mostly run indoors,there is a national series running at the moment
more info here
http://www.brca.org/index.php?q=cont...tric-micro/134
and micro forum
http://www.uk-microrc.co.uk/forum/

[Maxbashing]

I am not sure that this is something that is condoned but in the past someone suggested it to me and I have found it works a treat. I am the "friend" who help Shaun-TLR sort his engine and this is what finally sorted the issue...

So firstly prime your engine and then undo the glow plug a tiny amount, literally just enough to let some fuel out. Now start the engine and the second it's firing tighten the plug back up. Opening the glow plug will release the compression a tough and reduce the resistence on the piston. I have found that this often helps me start new (tight) engines until they are properly run in.

Just getting the engine to fire for a second will generate enough heat to remove the issue with the tight piston.

[racingdwarf]

just seen this

Right, it quite normal for a new engine to be this tight. as has been said an engine warmer is a good thing but in my 15 years of rallyx I've never owned one.

1st off make sure your box is fully charged, then remove plug from engine and put a small amount of after run down the hole to give the piston some lube.
Make sure the engine has fuel from the start, so if need be blow down the pressure pipe to the tank to push the fuel right up to the carb (remember that the fuel is also the engine lube!). Now get yourself a screwdriver with a big strong flat end to it, you use this to turn the engine when it jams at TDC.

Now with the plug removed open carb up to full throttle and use your starter box to turn it over. you should be able to get it turning over with the plug out. do this for about 30+ seconds there should be fuel and oil blasting out of the plug hole It will sound quite nasty and tinggy as it's very tight, now as fast as poss get the plug back in but leave it lose, attach the glow start, close the carb up to about quater throttle, make sure the engine is at BDC and go for it!! if it jams use the big flat blade screwdriver in the fly wheel to free it up and return it to BDC before trying again.
When it starts tighten the plug but try not to let the engine stop! let it run on the box ritch for at least 2 or 3 tanks, it should sit there at a slightly high tick over with oil blowing from the pipe. If it stops and jams, get the screwdriver out again, BDC and start it again straight away.
If I'm running an engine in, one I have it started I will not let it stop for about an hour.

TBH I've not needed to use this method on a new engine for some years as the make I use now don't seem to bad to run in ,And if you have a good powerfull box it realy helps. but back in the old days we used to have to do this a lot, we used to fit old flywheels at the start so we didn't bugger up a new one with the screwdriver when turning the engine to BDC. I have seen people use heat guns and yes I agree that warming the engine 1st is a good thing.

Oh and remember, once you have the plug out things need to be kept clean!!! realy don't want any dirt sucked into the engine. This all can be quite hard on the plug, so its a good idea to fit a new one after run in.
If by chance it's just silly tight, then it maybe good to take it back, as this could cause the big end to give up prematurely.

Oh and one last thing, if you use a heat gun to warm the engine, warm the engine block, not the head,as you want to target the heat to the piston and liner, not the cooling head. if you use a paint stripping heat gun take care as they get very very hot so watch your not melting other bits of the carb or the car!

[simonrhart]

Originally Posted by Dombrasky

Hi
Re; Mini eight, some1\10th tracks race micros if enough turn up,i know tiverton and mendip do (not sure on your area)
mostly run indoors,there is a national series running at the moment
more info here
http://www.brca.org/index.php?q=cont...tric-micro/134
and micro forum
http://www.uk-microrc.co.uk/forum/

I remember mendip from years ago when I used to race 1/10 buggies back in early 90's. Lazer ZX, Pro Cat and Rc10. Is the off road Taunton club still there? I used to go there a lot. I used to race with Paul and Mark Field, not sure if you knew them as this hobby is a relatively small world.

Now in Norfolk, there is a 1/14th club down just north of London on Saturdays, I'll probably go there. I really like this class, the Losi mini 8ight is so much fun.

Thinking about getting a B4 while in Seattle end of the month as they are cheaper over there. So 1/8, 1/10 and 1/14 - can't get enough of it

Simon

[simonrhart]

Originally Posted by racingdwarf

just seen this

Right, it quite normal for a new engine to be this tight. as has been said an engine warmer is a good thing but in my 15 years of rallyx I've never owned one.

1st off make sure your box is fully charged, then remove plug from engine and put a small amount of after run down the hole to give the piston some lube.
Make sure the engine has fuel from the start, so if need be blow down the pressure pipe to the tank to push the fuel right up to the carb (remember that the fuel is also the engine lube!). Now get yourself a screwdriver with a big strong flat end to it, you use this to turn the engine when it jams at TDC.

Now with the plug removed open carb up to full throttle and use your starter box to turn it over. you should be able to get it turning over with the plug out. do this for about 30+ seconds there should be fuel and oil blasting out of the plug hole It will sound quite nasty and tinggy as it's very tight, now as fast as poss get the plug back in but leave it lose, attach the glow start, close the carb up to about quater throttle, make sure the engine is at BDC and go for it!! if it jams use the big flat blade screwdriver in the fly wheel to free it up and return it to BDC before trying again.
When it starts tighten the plug but try not to let the engine stop! let it run on the box ritch for at least 2 or 3 tanks, it should sit there at a slightly high tick over with oil blowing from the pipe. If it stops and jams, get the screwdriver out again, BDC and start it again straight away.
If I'm running an engine in, one I have it started I will not let it stop for about an hour.

TBH I've not needed to use this method on a new engine for some years as the make I use now don't seem to bad to run in ,And if you have a good powerfull box it realy helps. but back in the old days we used to have to do this a lot, we used to fit old flywheels at the start so we didn't bugger up a new one with the screwdriver when turning the engine to BDC. I have seen people use heat guns and yes I agree that warming the engine 1st is a good thing.

Oh and remember, once you have the plug out things need to be kept clean!!! realy don't want any dirt sucked into the engine. This all can be quite hard on the plug, so its a good idea to fit a new one after run in.
If by chance it's just silly tight, then it maybe good to take it back, as this could cause the big end to give up prematurely.

Oh and one last thing, if you use a heat gun to warm the engine, warm the engine block, not the head,as you want to target the heat to the piston and liner, not the cooling head. if you use a paint stripping heat gun take care as they get very very hot so watch your not melting other bits of the carb or the car!

Hey racingdwarf,

Thank you very much for the heads up. I will try what you suggested when I'm back home.

Not sure how I'd use a big screw driver on the fly wheel as I'm using the stock Losi 8ight flywheel. What I have been doing is removing the cooling head and glow plug then getting a rag and turning the flywheel over by hand to get it back to BDC - the SMD start box - seems to be the most powerful one out there, but gets the piston stuck when attempting to start the thing.

What are your thoughts on the soldering iron technique mentioned earlier? I have a high powered gas iron with a blow tip end. The problem with heat guns and even hair dryers is the hot air gets blasted all over the car. So could damage the airfilter pipe/fuel lines if you're not to careful. A soldering iron with a blow torch end would be easier to control I think.

My wife's hair dryer (that she is complaining that I'm taking her hair dryer for my "toy cars" lol) I have been using gets the engine so hot I can't touch it with my bare hands. It gets to around 75C, in fact the bottom of the car gets too hot including the pipe to touch. I guess not hot enough!

Cheers
Simon

[bigt]

very much the old method above and pretty brutal if you think about it when you preheat to 200-230f the motor will turn freely and put much less stress on the rod as its not smashing the piston into the taper increasing its lifespan checkout the engine break In bible on rctech and spend £40 on a preheater and a temp gun your engines will last much longer and 3in1 can be used as after run oil

[racingdwarf]

It's an old method, used by an old racer.....but it works. but I agree that an engine warmer works.

If you are about sunday we are racing, I will have my starter box with me, I run a losi so your car will fit, if you want we will have a go at getting it up and running. like I said I have not had to use this method in a few years,

[simonrhart]

Originally Posted by racingdwarf

It's an old method, used by an old racer.....but it works. but I agree that an engine warmer works.

If you are about sunday we are racing, I will have my starter box with me, I run a losi so your car will fit, if you want we will have a go at getting it up and running. like I said I have not had to use this method in a few years,

Thanks for the offer. I'm not around this weekend but I will be around on the 27th so will come down then.

Are you guys racing 1/14th scale - perhaps with the 1/10th?

Simon

[OneKiwi]

Old thread but where can the piston/crank and sleeve be purchased from?

[simonrhart]

As the engine is made by CML, I would start with them: http://www.cmldistribution.co.uk/

Simon