Need help for Cougar resto: 1, 2 or Club 10??

[Lowry]

Hi guys,

I need some help of you Schumacher-experts:
· I have a collection of about 2 ½ Cougar rolling chassis and need to decide how to assemble them together (which model do I go for?)
· Ideally I would like to sell 1 car and keep the other one as a runner
· For 3 cars I am missing one set of wheels and also one front bulkhead (where wishbones and shock stay are mounted)

As far as I know there were 3 versions of the “first” Cougar:

Cougar 1:
· Silver Pro-Cat-like shocks
· Rear soft plastic shock tower
· Rear bulkhead mainly for stick batteries (small opening)
· “old diff” without hexagon-connection
· Black eccentric housings of diff-bearings
· Front lower suspension arms identical on left and right; shocks mounted in slots in wishbones
· Silver pan-chassis
· Rear hubs from Pro-Cat/ Cat (big round hubs)

Cougar 2:
· Using the Bosscat-like shocks
· Front whishbones changed (different mount of shocks)
· Front and rear shock tower with multiple holes
· Slipper integrated in main gear, different gear cover
· Diff changed to alloy hexagon-drives (internal connection)
· Different rear hubs
· New rear bulkhead with more mounting holes for upper link (6 instead of 3) and battery-hole now also fitting side-by-side configuration batteries
· Rear suspension arms with around 3mm pins instead of 2 mm pins on Cougar 1
· Were there only colored chassis-versions or was there also a silver-pan?
·

Club 10:
· Using red Boss-Cat-like shocks
· Front wishbones from Cougar 1 (shocks mounted in slots)
· Rear wishbones with thick pins (Cougar 2)
· No slipper but Cougar 1 main gear and gear cover
· Front shock stay Cougar 1 style; rear shock stay new design
· New-style diff but with plastic outdrives that were prone to breakage

Now as you can see from the pics (car, parts, list) I have quite some parts but no complete package for one car:
· For the Cougar 1 I am missing the rear shock tower, the rear long shocks, the rear big round hubs, the old-style diff
· For the Cougar 2 I am missing the slipper and special gear cover, the front and rear shock stay, the colored chassis pan; I could use the MMS Tufnol gear and belt gear instead of the slipper and the black “pro-diff” (?)
· For the Club 10 it looks best but of course this would be the “least” desirable version

Any advice is greatly appreciated. I want to do something with all parts but am a bit lost what actually would be a “good mix”.

Huge thanks and cheers

Ralf

[mporter2000]

Hi
What are you going to do with it?
If your shelving it I'd go for the best chassis as a start.
You don't have a cougar 2 chassis ie red/purple or pro shocks.
Use the alloy parts from diff, alloy rear mount and that MMS layshaft.
Bin that front shock mount in the pic, its a home made job.
Use the cougar 2 rear ie small rear hubs and wishbones with thicker in board pivot pins.
Go for the silver original shocks with mk1 front end. As you don't have a cougar 2 front mount or pro shocks.
Generally your building up a modified mk1 with what you've got.

If your racing it save your best chassis back!

[Retro RC]

Ok where to start.

You almost complete buggy is definately a club 10 the front end and red vari shocks are the big give away.

The next chassis to the right is from a cougar 1 you can tell as it still has the mounting holes for the top cat front end.

The last chassis on the right is from a cougar 2 the red chassis's only came out on the team and sport versions a year or so after the original c2. The c2 came with swept back front arms, new rear bulk head, rear arms, hub carriers and front and rear towers.

Diffs- if it's black it's not a pro diff as all pro diffs use a white pulley 51 tooth not a black 48 tooth. Year covers are all the same just a hole was added to adjust the slipper from the out side- all we did was drill a hole to achieve this when we added the slipper to earlier models.

Front bulkheads are still available if you look hard enough I may have a spare if you have no luck and JC racing do some really nice wheels for Schumacher either 5 spoke or dish.
Here's a c2 on eBay atm with them on

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Schu...gAAOSwFqJWl2xg
Adrian

[DerbyDan]

Originally Posted by Retro RC

The last chassis on the right is from a cougar 2 the red chassis's only came out on the team and sport versions a year or so after the original c2. The c2 came with swept back front arms, new rear bulk head, rear arms, hub carriers and front and rear towers.

I think that last chassis on the right is also either a Ex-TopCat or Early Cougar chassis that's had some extra holes drilled into it for some reason (It also has the extra holes for the front suspension) As far as I'm aware all three of the original production spec Cougar2s (Sport, Racing & Team versions) came with the red anodised chassis (I think that Cougar2 on ebay is built around a chassis from another Cougar version?) There were the two versions of the Cougar2 Works which came with purple anodised chassis & were drilled to accept the 'Works' rear suspension & revised gearbox.

Cougar2s all came with a version of the 'Pro-Diff' - but Sport models I understand had plastic diff outputs which required a 'lobed' diff washer - where as the full-spec pro-diff had plain [23mm dia?] washers with alloy outdrives - again Sport models came without a slipper clutch were as all other versions came with one as standard. Either of the Pro-Diffs I feel are a nice upgrade to use (If you have the parts) whichever version of the Cougar you decide build - likewise, the Cougar2 slipper clutch is pretty a 'must' if you are intending to run a powerful brushless set-up.

Part U322 (the front pivot plate) is still available from Schumacher (& cheaper than the ebay one) - it was used for a few of the RTR cars that Schumacher produced in more recent times. The moulding has had a few minor alterations since the release of the original Cougar - but is stronger as a result.

Part U260Q is the original Cougar/TopCat rear shock & wing mount - there's a couple of these on ebay.uk - if you wanted to go down the route of building a MK1 Cougar

[DerbyDan]

This is my Cougar1 - I built it up from the remains of what was a bit of a mangled 'mess'. It is all Cougar1 spec except for the gearbox which is basically Cougar2 - Pro-Diff (alloy version) & slipper clutch, which enables it to handle the 6.5 brushless motor that I've fitted



In action;


Body-off shot in the pits during a regional meeting which had a vintage support heat/race - I was only about 8sec or so slower with the Cougar than I was with my modern 2wd!


Full build thread here;
http://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=38755

[Lowry]

Hi guys,

thanks for all the tips and advice.

Attached please find 2 pictures of both diffs:

The white Club 10 diff:

• uses tri-lobed washer carrier made out of black plastic (prone to breakage)
• These washer carriers are male and female and are positioned/ guided by the bushings in the white outer parts; they are not guided/ beared at the inner main gear
• The middle gear uses 12 balls

At the black unknown diff:

• The main gear is more rounded on the outside where the belt goes on
• it uses hex-style-aluminium-washer-carriers, that are identical left to right
• These washer carriers use small ball bearings that are pushed inside in the front and that guide the middle pin of the main gear
• The outer covers of the main gear are only used for dust protection
• It uses 14 balls

1. Does anybody have information on the black ball diff?
2. Are there any spare parts for the black tri-lobe washer carriers that always break?

Thanks and I will keep you posted

Right now I tend to sell the Cougar 2 front axle and use the other stuff to built a Cougar 1/ Club 10 runner (and still having some spares).

Cheers

Ralf

[xfactor]

Hi Ralf,

The white is the pro diff and needs the alloy out puts in first pic to go with it. This is what was installed and up graded on the cougar 2.

The black one is the MK1 cougar diff and needs the black out puts in pic 2 putting with it.

Hope that helps........

Click to enlarge. This is my pro diff for my cougar 2 runner.

[mporter2000]

I don't think those parts will inter change

[Retro RC]

Originally Posted by DerbyDan

I think that last chassis on the right is also either a Ex-TopCat or Early Cougar chassis that's had some extra holes drilled into it for some reason (It also has the extra holes for the front suspension) As far as I'm aware all three of the original production spec Cougar2s (Sport, Racing & Team versions) came with the red anodised chassis (I think that Cougar2 on ebay is built around a chassis from another Cougar version?) There were the two versions of the Cougar2 Works which came with purple anodised chassis & were drilled to accept the 'Works' rear suspension & revised gearbox.

Cougar2s all came with a version of the 'Pro-Diff' - but Sport models I understand had plastic diff outputs which required a 'lobed' diff washer - where as the full-spec pro-diff had plain [23mm dia?] washers with alloy outdrives - again Sport models came without a slipper clutch were as all other versions came with one as standard. Either of the Pro-Diffs I feel are a nice upgrade to use (If you have the parts) whichever version of the Cougar you decide build - likewise, the Cougar2 slipper clutch is pretty a 'must' if you are intending to run a powerful brushless set-up.

Part U322 (the front pivot plate) is still available from Schumacher (& cheaper than the ebay one) - it was used for a few of the RTR cars that Schumacher produced in more recent times. The moulding has had a few minor alterations since the release of the original Cougar - but is stronger as a result.

Part U260Q is the original Cougar/TopCat rear shock & wing mount - there's a couple of these on ebay.uk - if you wanted to go down the route of building a MK1 Cougar

Hey dan there was a release of cougar 2's before the sport, team and works editions it didn't have the pro diff and had a silver chassis, the rear bulk head was also different to the later releases with the coloured chassis as it was changed to take in line saddles but had less camber link adjustments and it also didn't have the pro slipper.they were released about 12 months before the ano chassis editions. I still have mine and it will be part of my future c2 thread(s)

Adrian

[DerbyDan]

Originally Posted by Retro RC

Hey dan there was a release of cougar 2's before the sport, team and works editions it didn't have the pro diff and had a silver chassis, the rear bulk head was also different to the later releases with the coloured chassis as it was changed to take in line saddles but had less camber link adjustments and it also didn't have the pro slipper.they were released about 12 months before the ano chassis editions. I still have mine and it will be part of my future c2 thread(s)

Adrian

Mmmm - I must admit I was not aware of an earlier version of the Cougar2 - certainly as a club member local to the Schumacher factory at the beginning of the 90s the team engineers/drivers would turn up with various prototype cars & parts - some of those cars being essentially pre-production Cougar2s which would have silver chassis', I still race with one of those such revered team drivers & ex-Schumacher employees. Many Cougar1s were of course modified with Cougar2 parts - creating hybrids. My first knowledge of a production Cougar2 were the red chassis cars. That said I'm aways interested in learning about new variants of these old cars - I would love to see some pictures of your 'early' Cougar2

With reference to the two pics that Ralf has posted, the first photo shows what was essentially the original Cougar1/TopCat spec diff but it has the alloy upgrade versions of the 'hex' diff outputs - the hex diff being an upgrade in its own right over the kit parts which relied on some stuck-on discs of sandpaper on the back of the diff washers to grip on the plain diff outputs.

Photo.2 shows a 'sport' spec ProDiff - I think this was the standard item in the Cougar2 Sport.... & also the Mk1 Version of the Club10 (Pre geared gearbox) Its basically the same as the 'comp-spec' Pro-Diff that came with the Racing & Team variants of the Cougar2 but instead of alloy diff outputs (Like the ProDiff in my photo below) The Sport version has plastic diff halves/outputs that use the tri-lobe washers - this is still a very good diff, & in my opinion would be my choice of the two in your photos should you intend to run your Cougar

[Retro RC]

Originally Posted by DerbyDan

Mmmm - I must admit I was not aware of an earlier version of the Cougar2 - certainly as a club member local to the Schumacher factory at the beginning of the 90s the team engineers/drivers would turn up with various prototype cars & parts - some of those cars being essentially pre-production Cougar2s which would have silver chassis', I still race with one of those such revered team drivers & ex-Schumacher employees. Many Cougar1s were of course modified with Cougar2 parts - creating hybrids. My first knowledge of a production Cougar2 were the red chassis cars. That said I'm aways interested in learning about new variants of these old cars - I would love to see some pictures of your 'early' Cougar2

With reference to the two pics that Ralf has posted, the first photo shows what was essentially the original Cougar1/TopCat spec diff but it has the alloy upgrade versions of the 'hex' diff outputs - the hex diff being an upgrade in its own right over the kit parts which relied on some stuck-on discs of sandpaper on the back of the diff washers to grip on the plain diff outputs.

Photo.2 shows a 'sport' spec ProDiff - I think this was the standard item in the Cougar2 Sport.... & also the Mk1 Version of the Club10 (Pre geared gearbox) Its basically the same as the 'comp-spec' Pro-Diff that came with the Racing & Team variants of the Cougar2 but instead of alloy diff outputs (Like the ProDiff in my photo below) The Sport version has plastic diff halves/outputs that use the tri-lobe washers - this is still a very good diff, & in my opinion would be my choice of the two in your photos should you intend to run your Cougar

Hey dan it may well have been a Proto buggy as I was a team driver at the time. Unfortunately the 2 guys that were importing Schumacher at the time have both passed away and I'm unable to get hold of the other 2 factory drivers from New Zealand at the time as 1 of them was killed in a motor racing accident at Bathurst in 2006 and the other has dropped of the face of the earth.
mine has had quite a few changes since then but I have managed to find some pics of 1 that looks to have started life as an early release c2

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/picturefra...10223027_2.jpg

if you notice the silver chassis does not have the holes for the topcat suspension pressed into it and the front tower is the same as the 1 mine came with, unfortunately the it has had the works box and ball raced steering added and the swept back arms are gone too and can't tell if it has the upgraded c1 rear bulkhead which was basically the standard bulkhead altered to take saddles but still only had 2 camber link positions

Cheers Adrian

[xfactor]

That looks like the Club 10 chassis. The holes were not drilled to take the battery down the center. You could only have the battery across the chassis. Also you can see the holes in front of the right battery cup. These are for the mechanical speed controller to be fitted. Also the Club 10 chassis came with pre-drilled holes for the servo and black servo mounts. You will also notice that the holes down each side of the chassis are drilled different to the cougar/cougar 2 chassis. The chassis showing here will not fit a battery cup in the center. A cougar/cougar 2 chassis has the 2 holes on a angle not straight nerest the velcro on the chassis.

If you go to the first post, the buggy has the same chassis. You can see the differences with the holes drilled like I explained..

I have one of these chassis's in mint condition.......

[Retro RC]

Yup on closer look true, also look at the first post the chassis on the right is a silver c2 chassis has a few extra holes drilled but definately is not original cougar/topcat or club10, but may have just been de anodised

Looks like it may have had a works box attached to it at some stage too maybe

[Retro RC]

This 1 is up for sale again has a silver c2 chassis on it could have been de anodised

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Sc...3D141963698712

[Groomi]

I built the C2 mentioned above. It's a silver anodized chassis. I do 'believe' there was a standard silver chassis version, but as with many Schumacher's from back in the day it's difficult to be sure. It also wasn't unheard of for parts specs to change during the production life.

[xfactor]

There was 2 cougar chassis's,

1. Cougar club 10. Different holes drill for mechanical speedo and only allowed for batteries across the chassis.

2. Cougar MK1 chassis anodized silver. Allowed for batteries across or down the centre.

The Cougar 2 came out and had the same chassis as the Cougar Mk1 but was anodized red. That is the only difference between Cougar mk1 and Cougar 2 chassis's, was the colour of the chassis. All holes were the same.

Top Cat had the holes drilled for the lay down shocks.

[Retro RC]

Originally Posted by Groomi

I built the C2 mentioned above. It's a silver anodized chassis. I do 'believe' there was a standard silver chassis version, but as with many Schumacher's from back in the day it's difficult to be sure. It also wasn't unheard of for parts specs to change during the production life.

Thanks groomi, I was starting to think my memory was packin in

[Retro RC]

Originally Posted by xfactor

There was 2 cougar chassis's,

1. Cougar club 10. Different holes drill for mechanical speedo and only allowed for batteries across the chassis.

2. Cougar MK1 chassis anodized silver. Allowed for batteries across or down the centre.

The Cougar 2 came out and had the same chassis as the Cougar Mk1 but was anodized red. That is the only difference between Cougar mk1 and Cougar 2 chassis's was the colour of the chassis. All holes were the same.

Top Cat had the holes drilled for the lay down shocks.

hey mark the Mk 1 cougar also had the top cat holes punched..... Well mine did anyway

[xfactor]

When the Cougar mk1 was released it came in two specs,

1. Complete kit Cougar mk1.

2. Upgrade kit.

This was a front end conversion. Came with wishbones, front tower all the parts for the cougar mk1 front end. Cost was 29.99 back then.

So yours could be a converted Top Cat.

[xfactor]

Schumacher did this for everyones needs. They did a lot of this with the Cougar 2 when the works came out.

That is why you may get so many different cougar,cougar 2 and works as people either bought complete kits or upgraded the cougar they had......

Peakys Cougar 2 works is a perfect example of the Cougar 2 team with Works back end......