New Race Format

[discostu]

i raced for the first time with the trial format last night and left the meeting with the sense ive raced the competion rather than making the numbers up for the last round in the old format as the meeting would have been won by that point.

im liking

stu

[Hog]

It seems that every format has its pros and cons.

For example I raced my arse off the previous week to finish 2nd, only to be bumped down the grid due to a returning driver - namely you Stu . And if Ed had raced, my 2nd then becomes a 4th.

It's a good thing if it frees up Alan from having to decide where everybody goes into a heat, just not sure on the system of deciding on the driver grading. If, for example, the week that was used to create the drivers grading I'd had a mare of a night, how does that fairly create my driver grade?

Would it perhaps not be fairer to have drivers graded on a "rolling" basis - whereas their grade is created over say their last 6 results? This gives 2 options as well:

1 - to include 0 results where a driver hasn't raced - this rewards commitment to the club, or

2 - don't include 0 results - hence not penalising them if they can't attend and still maintaining their last 6 scores that count.

I think the racing has definitely been closer in the last few weeks which is a good thing, but as with any new system there's bumps to be ironed out I feel.

Just my $0.02 worth.......

[jordan1]

i like the system but at the same time is annoying was second in my final car cut out, and ended up 24th ranked when was 17th when the car cut out so now im gunna be in a heat which i shouldnt be in next week

[Hog]

I stand to be corrected Jordan but I think you'll be classified as last in your final hence you will still be in that band of driver ability next week rather than dropping too far down.

[discostu]

hey dave

i can see your point that would be frustrating sorry buddy you have a good sujestion and it would certanly make a lot of sense like you say if it was done as a rolling six week or even 4 week it wouldnt matter and graded on those 6 weeks would certanly make it a little fairer but the bumping down would still happen for example i didn't race for two weeks but the 6 weeks before then i scored higher points than you dave so i would still have been seeded higher and you would still feel that i bumped you down as you haddent seen me for two weeks.

stu

[Hog]

See your point Stu - but over the 6 week period there would be a greater chance of the highs and lows levelling out rather than the grading being done on one result.

[Hairy Spider]

Personally I think that any system based on average results would be pointless. You would get such minor changes in the grading each week that you would be racing the same people week in week out. Even with the old race format, you were only as good as you last performance and this is no different. I'm all for people thinking about different grading systems but it will need to fit in with the race softwares capabilities (which are quite limited is this area). Any system that involves manually working out gradings each week isn't going to happen, or if it does, it won't be me doing it every week. Sorry...

Don't loose sight of the fact that the grading only affects the qualifying grid positions of the first round. Everything that happens after that is down to you .

I have emailed Rob Nelson (BBK) asking what criteria are used to determin the grid positions when 2 people have the same ranking.

[discostu]

you have a very good point there as dave said i was graded higher than him for the first round of qualifying but i failed to finished that race so for round two a started in last place but managed to qulify second after that round by winning the race with a time just shy of neils.

[sfry61]

can i make a suggestion on the qualifying rounds, staggered starts? Dont know if anyone has suggested this before people still seem to think they're racing for position and it all gets a little mad

Everything else is goooooood just the qualifying needs a tiny tweek....in my opinion

[spud31]

Well done steve i agree as i had to marshall your heats an what a mess!
It does seem unless your in the top heat the driving standard has dropped through floor since the new system.

I also think maybe we need to run race numbers an is it poss for the computer to update the race order more often?
It seems what happens is your on a good run lapping people, but they dont understand so you get taken out. I think people are still confused that there racing the clock not each other due to grid start.

As a side issue can the marshalling be sorted please, im fed up with having to avoid some of our younger members who tend to stand in track normally getting dragged into someone elses accident.
Maybe a system where the younger guys dont get the jump to marshall as they are scared of the cars coming at them.
i know in rallycross no marshall can be under the age of 12, maybe this isnt practical but we now have stepped qualifing up to serious level an maybe everything else needs to aswell.

This is not a dig i just want the to enjoy racing again an if it means i have to marshall more than once im up for it.

Spud

[whissstle]

Steve, good suggestion.

Not only does this follow Regional and National formats, but it will enable all drivers to get away to a good start and easier for drivers to pick up a faster driver during the first few laps.
Our racing is getting closer and closer with a mistake of whoever's making easily costing 5 or 6 places.

I was aware of a few drivers getting really frustrated last night, and a bit of discipline and driving etiquette is required by both a slower driver and lapping driver.

Many corners have room to pull off the racing line to enable the faster driver to overtake without needing to stop and ruin your own flow. But, there are also places where overtaking should not be considered.

Another point was raised to me last night regarding marshalling. We do have some young drivers who I agree with the comment made, should not be placed in critical positions to marshall, such as immediately after a jump where it can be frightening and more dangerous for a 4 footer than us big guys.

An awareness and a bit of common sense should make sure we all have good fun racing.

Andy

[Hog]

I don't think there's any need for a "system" as such for not placing younger marshalls in a position of risk near a ramp - surely it's down to common sense for the older drivers when they marshal to offer to swap with a younger driver?

Driving standards are always going to be a bone of contention when it comes to racing within the relatively tight confines of a village hall. We've all had our frustrations and felt hard done by when on the receiving end of a enthusiastic passing move.

We're in the throes of trying a few different formats at the moment so perhaps staggered starts may help. Personally - I prefer to race against people than the clock. A grid start means I know exactly who is where after the first corner - as stated though perhaps it's time to remind drivers about racing etiquette when it comes to lapped traffic and the "first corner pileup"..........

[MHeadling]

I have been having a chat with some other club members and it seems the new format is a good step forward.

I feel Richard has a point in the fact that a stagered start will help the first corner pile ups, let's save that for the finals!!

When I was racing TC at Maritime the cars were numbered and the timing system used to call out the leader and when the leader was coming up to lap you, this seemed to work well and gave clean racing.

Maybe a little chat at the meeting to make it clear that the first 2 rounds are qualifying and that it's not a full on final so we get cleaner driving as your racing the clock not each other.

Maybe this could work at Faversham but maybe it will confuse things? One thing we have got to remember is keeping is simple and fun for the younger members.

But last of all big thanks to all the people that help run the club and give up their time, with out them we wouldn't be racing!

[Team No Idea]

Bonjorno chaps! I havn't been to faversham for a number of weeks now as im taking some time out to concentrate on the SE regionals. So im yet to try this new system, D'oh!. I have to say though its all sounding like lots of fun and im looking forward to a return to weekly racing. Just out of interest i take it i am ungraded as i havn't been there and therefore i will be dans la bottom heat and graded 1000th?

[discostu]

hey mark maritime run a different race software we use bbk maritime runs rc laps wich allows the computer to have the speach to call out lapping drivers the only problem with rc laps system we run on average 10 sec laps wich means the coputer would constantly be calling out car 1 lapping ect.

i also agree with a proper staggerd start system but i feel the younger driver will not understand how it works im a little confused why there is being such an issue with geid starts as yes it is qaulifying but its not a stagered qauly so in thery you are still racing each other so the passing still needs to be treated the same way as it always has been the only difference now is everybody is racing drivers of the same abillity.

as for the youngster marshaling a lot has to be desired from the oldies i cant remeber how many times if lost my car behind an oldie who is dithering around the middle of the race track my view is the marshals should marshal from left or the right and not run up the race track so they would be out of eye shot quicker.

but having said that DONT CRASH problem solved.

stu

gotta say last ights racing was excelent realy enjoyed it and again went home felling like ive had a race.

[spud31]

Stu i hate to say this but drop down a few heats an see whats its like. lol
The grid starts just cause pileups an gung ho driving, the top 2 heats drivers respect each other an can work out that your racing the clock not each other as your race time dosent start i assume until you pass the loop for the first time?
I dont want to be told to get out of the way when im lapping a person for the 2nd time when they start wheel banging in every corner an this person should know better.
As i stated its not normally your crash that causes the issue its being involved in someone elses accident whilst there being marshalled.
Dont get me wrong we all make blunders lol but people driving into you whilst your marshalling another car dosent help.
Its been stated we dont need a system for dealing with the younger marshalls as its common sence we obviously do as the common sence approach is not being carried out.
There must be an issue with driving during qualifying as both ross an i improved by 3 an 2 laps respectivly in our finals this does not normally happen in other classes finals are usually slower.

Maybe im expecting too much i dont know, just when racing nitro these issues are apparant, an we have rolling race time start.
Also whilst im ranting im fed up being hit in the foot by cars practising whilst trying to walk out to my marshalling position. This is unsafe an could cause injury. The person then had the cheek to have a go at me for doing it, i mean come on do they think you do these things on purpose i really want a bruised foot for fun.

serman over lol

[discostu]

yeah rich i think you could be right the lower heats do look to be carnage.

[gav4wd]

I personally feel a 1 to 10 staggered start for the first round and the ftd list staggered for the second. then the must past the car in front attitude goes maybe out the window.
finals will always be finals as long as it is being watched and people honour rules i.e waiting, no rope jumping all should be as good as it can be.
with regard to the qual issue the issue is a already stated people are now racing people of the same standard stagger the start and it will reduce im sure.
we have got to remember this is a club not a national and over the 40 50 people there racing not all are close in ability as others also it is a small hall with a lap time of 10 sec, more jumps now, 8 cars, 8 marshalls and the fact its RACING it's never going to be perfect.

[Hog]

Originally Posted by spud31

Maybe im expecting too much i dont know, just when racing nitro these issues are apparant, an we have rolling race time start.

Perhaps racing outside and having an awful lot more room have something to do with this as well mate?

[spud31]

Originally Posted by Hog

Perhaps racing outside and having an awful lot more room have something to do with this as well mate?

Maybe but i actually ment the driving standard an respect for not wrecking each others qualifing runs.
I agree with that its not a national, but the drivers are much closer an racing more serious so maybe more disapline has to be introduced, i dunno TBH i feel like an outcast for saying anything as my posts seem to be being disected now just want to enjoy racing again an not go home with a bag of bits lol.