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Old 27-10-2011
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grelland grelland is offline
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Default dirt/clay setup

Guys.

Winter is here, and our astro-track has gone into winter-hibernation.

But just one hour from here, a brand new indoor clay/dirt track just opened:



and I was wondering if anybody out there has any experience with setups on similar tracks.

The track is fairly new, so the grip is not that good yet, but I expect a blue groove to develop.

I have had advice to increase the anti-squat, and bring the motor as far back as possible. Any other tips?

I still have not tested the track, so I do not know how well/bad my astro setup works...
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Old 09-11-2011
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not that many people running on clay tracks, I guess...

Well, I had a chance to test it last weekend and it worked ok, but in general the grip is quite low in places, and all the 2wd cars struggeled...

My biggest problem was the short distances from the 180 deg turns to the jumps, and I simply could not generate enough forward grip to clear the doubles... Other 2wds struggled too, but some of them made it, so there is more grip available.

Any hints?
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Old 09-11-2011
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Thats what we need over here. Looks amazing.
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Old 09-11-2011
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Is this on an RB5 version?

If it is are you running in the additional inside hole on the wishbone? This will give more drive. Also stand it up on the tower.

Run the inner rear ballstud on the lower row of holes.

Remove weight from the front and shift to the back. You can add about 20g either side of the motor.

If you are on small bore shocks try black rear springs. I ran these most of the time on high grip too but it will give more grip.

Make sure the rear driveshafts are level.

Short wheelbase if you are not already.

This is probably where you'll tell me it's not an RB5 but the same rules will apply anyway!

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Old 09-11-2011
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Raise the gearbox....

Rudebits may be able to help you with that.
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Old 09-11-2011
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If the car is B4.1 vega, convert it back to original rear motor B4.1. It works better in low grip clay. I use B4.1 at summer, vega at winter on astro, carpet etc....
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Old 09-11-2011
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it is a b4, yes

but I will not convert it back to rear-engine, as I like a challenge

Thanks for the input, most of the apply even if it is not RB5-based.

I used to run a x-6, so I was thinking of raising the gearbox also, but is that something others have done on the vega? using shims?
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Old 09-11-2011
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not that it will be a popular comment....but i'd convert it back to a rear motor car

(oh yeh and get kyosho!)
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Old 09-11-2011
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mid cars are great on every surface.. literally.

we run on everything from damp clay to loamy topsoil tracks and the mid cars hang just fine.

ask any X-Factory guy.. for some reason you guys don't run on dirt enough to be comfortable but trust me. the mid car will be competitive there.
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Old 09-11-2011
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Will try it next season, some mid cars definitely work like the X6
but I've seen people really struggling with a 22 where the classic
B4 stock handled just fine.

Got a B4 and long chassis for dirt but the Vega might work too, lots of rear traction and stability.

You'll raise the gearbox by 1mm ?
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Old 11-11-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideLineRacing View Post
Short wheelbase if you are not already.
my experience shows that minor traction advantage short base might give doesn't justify loss of steering in 180 degree turns.
I went back to long base and was amazed how easier was to drive the car in U-turns.
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Old 11-11-2011
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Short wheelbase will give a fair bit more drive, not just becuase of the weight shoft but because of the driveshaft angle too.

On low grip I always try and get as much drive as possible and then get steering back in other ways. Short wheelbase will pivot in to the turn more, but will give less steering on power so it just depends what you are after.

If you are struggling to get up to speed for a jump due to lack of traction (like grelland), then short wheelbase is going to help.
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  #13  
Old 11-11-2011
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thanks.

about the raised gearbox, it it as simple as adding 1 mm spacers.

Seems I will not have time to test this weekend, though...
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  #14  
Old 11-11-2011
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You'll need to compensate for the loss in droop, and it will effect the innner ballstud position too.

It's not something i've tried as i haven't run the vega on dirt yet, but Spenner ran it like that at the Euro's and did a decent job with it.
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Old 11-11-2011
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If you raise the gearbox you have to realise you are raising the whole rear end.
You will lose droop but luckily when racing on hard packed surfaces they reduce this a little anyway. But as kev said make sure you check it as you will be on the edge of your outdrives!!!

At the Euro's/Worlds i raised the gearbox and was running quite alot of anti squat. I also ran the shocks upright, one thing with the vega is it doesn't lack the side bite, you need the drive!!

The worlds was really a test and i can honestly say that the car was really good in france for the Euro's. Myself and Evdoka were running some test weights which went straight under the gearbox (raising it at the same time) these worked great.
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  #16  
Old 28-11-2011
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Thanks for all the advice.

I finally got to test the car again yesterday, and as expected, the general grip was a lot better, and I managed to clear most of the jumps. I did not have the time to try the lifted gearbox, so that will be the next change I make. But I did increase the anti-squat and had the shocks in a more upright position.

One thing I noticed, is that while the side grip is very good, it seems that when I get close to the limit of the side bite, it all happens very quickly... Either it holds the line well, or it suddenly wants to swap ends... Are there any mods that I can do to make this transition a bit smoother, as the way it is now, I feel I can not push as hard as I like, as I am afraid of the swapping of ends...

I noticed after my last run yesterday, that the diff probably needs a rebuild, could that be the cause?
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  #17  
Old 28-11-2011
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[QUOTE=grelland;587833]Thanks for all the advice.

One thing I noticed, is that while the side grip is very good, it seems that when I get close to the limit of the side bite, it all happens very quickly... Either it holds the line well, or it suddenly wants to swap ends... QUOTE]

That is exactly why I use std B4.1 at summer on clay, as I couldn't get rid of that with changes on setup
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