TEAM EXTREME "OUT OF USE"

[Dyna]

Sit down, make a cup of tea, this ones going to be a long one.

Plenty of ways getting round most design rights if required. I work with clients all the time doing that on various products. But even if it were protected to the hilt - which it isnt, probably due to the cost for them - there are ways round most things.

That isnt the problem though. The problem is if you want to keep the original Predator brand as a viable entity. But the only thing that is worth money at all right now is the stock, and it would take a long while to see any return on your investment. As a viable trading entity with a viable product, it is in my opionion, currently pretty much worthless.

By my count, at least four of us on o0ple - including myself - tried to buy the company and/or stock. We all failed.

I've looked into the company and the company holdings, the accounts, the other companies, properties, spoken to a lot of people for info, added it all up and ive a pretty good idea of what happened and whats going on now, how much i thought the trading name and stock was worth - but i dont think thats right to post all that up here. Once i found how much was spent on TTech & subsideries when brought for in the mid 2000's, i thought they were out of their depth right from the word go as far as profitability was concerned.

Im sure the other interested buyers like Dudders have done the same as I have. We have done our research, otherwise we wouldve been stupid in even thinking of offering them any money at all. Suffice to say I think the only way the Predator as a profitable named brand will ever see the light of day again is if someone with shed loads of disposable cash and decent business sense can buy it for what its genuinly worth. Which isnt much. Even then I dont think it would ever make any profit in future trading as it is currently without substantial re-investment in time and money.

The Pred is still competitive on certain tracks, but it really needs a good evolution or two to move it up to present day overall 4wd standards. Ive spent hours and hours and hours going over the design, what could be done for what cost, knowing what Team Xtreme were going to do to the Pred on its next evolution before they canned it etc etc. Ive a folder full of possible design changes, drawings, materials & production costings, timescales, new prototype parts, everything ive done over the last year or so. Just in case.

But once i realised i wouldnt get hold of the brand or the genuine spares, i gave up on that idea and decided to do what i could for myself in a limited manner.

Ive tracked down other parts and materials and found alternatives, i can CAD up lots of the metal parts ready if i need to get someting CNC'd like driveshafts or diff halves once my spares cache is depleted. I've all five of the original Pred bodyshell designs in master form if i need to pull anymore. Numerous other parts or materials ive got sorted if and when required.

As far as replacement graphite/plastic parts, ive been re-tooling those for a while now for myself in my own time and expense, even incorperating some much needed mods on most parts.

If the customer base was there i could offer replacement alternatives for almost every single plastic/graphite part for the X11/X10, and a good few for the older models. And then i might re-invest in the metal parts and offer those as well. But how many people, bar myself ( and i run only part-time these days ), still run Preds competitively ? A dozen maybe world-wide ? If that ? Exactly. Thats the problem. You need at least dozens, not a dozen, drivers running their cars regulary to make a limited spares production run viable.

So for me, or anyone else for that matter, to sell any new parts for any profitability - or even just to help people out by suppling parts and just break even on costs - its just not worth it. The market for competitive Pred runners & spares just isnt there now.

Ron Burgandy got it right ages ago. The Predator brand as a profitable entity is currently lying dead in the morgue, autopsy over and pending burial. No more new Predators or genuine spares anymore. Unless a bonafide resurrection miracle ocurrs, thats it.

The Predator's spirit as a competitive car however, is still clinging to life. But only just.

[Ron Burgundy]

Great post mate. Excellent. Well worth the read and the hard truths. It is not a viable brand or option.

Put it down to just one of life's things. Things come and go. Like a fine wine or one of our favourite bands, it was its time.

Cheers guys!

[Dudders]

Excellent post. My offer was a punt based on what I thought I could do with the branding, marketing and positioning, but it did include the Vega as well. I'm offer was somewhat lower than they thought they could get.

The age old say, £5000 of something is better than £30,000 of nothing (not actually figures!)

Drop me an email Dyna.

[Col]

Originally Posted by Dudders

... ... but it did include the Vega as well...

That's not even worth diddly squat anymore, unfortunately. People had to give them up as they couldn't get spares anymore.
The few I know of that still run are on borrowed time...
Vega may just about be viable. Just. Pred isn't in the morgue, it was in the ground a long time ago.

[Dyna]

Originally Posted by Col

That's not even worth diddly squat anymore, unfortunately. People had to give them up as they couldn't get spares anymore.
The few I know of that still run are on borrowed time...
Vega may just about be viable. Just. Pred isn't in the morgue, it was in the ground a long time ago.

Actually Col, I think the Vega part is now less viable than the predator part. The vega is almost worse as a going concern in its present form as there's nothing to buy, which is why I wasn't interested in that part of the company. I did the math and i could see no way of taking it forward without starting again from almost scratch. There's no viable vega product at all right now in the present conversion kits, bar a small spares supply. If you were going to do that, you may as well start up a new company to go with the new designs and pay nothing for the vega brand because there's nothing to really take forward.

The predator design could, just, be resurrected if you could get it for what it's presently worth. I.e, not much The design still has potential with some modifications and design changes that could be undertaken. The only thing keeping it in the morgue is TX.

And that's always been the real problem, not the car or the brand as such, just TX and how they have handled it.

So as much as I respect your views and agree with most of them, I don't agree with you or Ron that the predator is buried - yet - as a viable design. Just the present brand and company. Different things.

Lets end it on a positive note. You never know. The Preds spirit is still alive. Sometimes miracles do happen...

[Dudders]

12/18months ago the Vega WAS worth aunt as things can quickly turn around. However now? No chance.

[Dyna]

Originally Posted by Dudders

12/18months ago the Vega WAS worth aunt as things can quickly turn around. However now? No chance.

Yes, I agree, you are correct. It got turned into something worthless in that time frame.

Apologies, I didn't realise it was that long ago you were interested in the company. My appraisal was far more recent.

[Ron Burgundy]

I definitely think its a hugely viable design, as you are, im referring to the brand/name/current status

[s22jgs]

why not just do what every other company does and copy the design with some very minor adjustments, give it a new name and ure done.

How many incarnations of the durango 210 are out there now under different names.

[Tom3012]

You could call it 'Alien'!

I'd buy one, I miss my predator!

[CyrilleG]

Originally Posted by Tom3012

You could call it 'Alien'!

I'd buy one, I miss my predator!

Yes, it's a good idea for the name !


When the "alien" will run, we can make a video match between both : with the name :"alien vs predator"

Cyrille

[Steeledge]

Subscibed and optimistic for some encouraging updates, one of these years...Annoyed I couldn't fully check out and pay them via paypal through their site a couple days ago. I emailed them, though it appears my chances of getting a response are not the strongest.

Shame one or both of you guys in this thread who were interested in purchasing the company, designs ect, couldn't get it done. It would be great to see the company still around and with the right management, it could grow much larger. I mean, they never even had US distribution if I recall, jesus, that's not even hard. There's alot of sexiness and mystique around predator, more so than almost any other car in the last 10-15 years, atleast IMO. And it could have been a major player if they just had the right people behind it driving it forward into new markets, parts support and some damn customer service! Not to mention, a growing product line.

Anyway, I'm hoping to find a lipo chassis x11 here or on ebay, if anyone has one, PM please.

[Ron Burgundy]

So has anything happened or has anyone looked into it again? Buying the Predator "side" of things?

As each day goes by its gotta be worth less and less.

Im not sure if anyone mentioned this previously, but im still interested to know what they "want" or what the administrators want for the brand. Predator copyright, not the other common tx or vega stuff.

[The_doctor]

and that is Y we dont hav the Predator anymore because of all the money going into the VEGA shit!!!!!!!!!!

what a wast....i was a team driver here in Austraila and still hav all my predator stuff as i was just about to get the new car it closed down .....F##@!!!!
i still think its the best car ever made!!! just that the new owners used all the income on that VEga shit!

out side of england it was very hard to premote the car as we found it hard here too......
but it is the most sucsesffull nats winning car ever!!!!!!!!!!

from wiliam to kevin ,jamie to neil its won alot even Bk!!!!! even to this day i think it still holds the most nats titles in england.

GREAT LOSS!!!

[racingdwarf]

Hmm think you may find the vega cars provided a lot of turnover in there time,saw many more vegas than preds, the RB5 vega was both popular and bloody good! and great workmanship and design so saying it's sh@* is a little stupid, the problem with the vega creations is there time was limited, once the major manufacturers got the hang of mid motor design expensive conversions had had their day! Personally I think the RB5 vega was one of the best after market kits ever made,it made the RB5 a fantastic high grip car,its quality was second to non and it was deadly simple no quirky linkages or cheep week points were costs had been cut, but its time was limited from the moment it was designed.

But in reply to your post I seriously doubt a small firm could survive in the UK supplying pred alone the market was just not big enough, the pred is a has been, just to long in the tooth, not saying it's naff, just the market has moved on, In the right hands the RC10worlds is still a very fast car, but if AE was still pushing it as there car 20+years on how big would there total 2wd market share be today?

Best car ever made? stiff competition from the RC!0 and the xx4. both cars used as the bench mark for many 2wd and 4wd cars for many years.

When you read back through all the posts your answer is already there as to why extreme closed it's doors both the pred and the vega had had its day, the market had gone, moved on they just got left behind sadly

[andoiwebb]

Spot on, Vegas were not 'shit', they were superb. Unlike the company management, which was utterly shit and is why the company folded.

[DCM]

We won't mention that the fron kick-up on the chassis was bent up and not machined then, causing it to crack (as what happened to Lee Martins one).

Team Extreme thought they could make a quick profit off the Pred where really all they were was caretakers for a car brand. If they had redisgned the Pred etc, who knows, maybe they just didn't have the technical competence or cash to do it.

[rc_penguin]

Originally Posted by racingdwarf

Hmm think you may find the vega cars provided a lot of turnover in there time,saw many more vegas than preds, the RB5 vega was both popular and bloody good! and great workmanship and design so saying it's sh@* is a little stupid, the problem with the vega creations is there time was limited, once the major manufacturers got the hang of mid motor design expensive conversions had had their day! Personally I think the RB5 vega was one of the best after market kits ever made,it made the RB5 a fantastic high grip car,its quality was second to non and it was deadly simple no quirky linkages or cheep week points were costs had been cut, but its time was limited from the moment it was designed.

But in reply to your post I seriously doubt a small firm could survive in the UK supplying pred alone the market was just not big enough, the pred is a has been, just to long in the tooth, not saying it's naff, just the market has moved on, In the right hands the RC10worlds is still a very fast car, but if AE was still pushing it as there car 20+years on how big would there total 2wd market share be today?

Best car ever made? stiff competition from the RC!0 and the xx4. both cars used as the bench mark for many 2wd and 4wd cars for many years.

When you read back through all the posts your answer is already there as to why extreme closed it's doors both the pred and the vega had had its day, the market had gone, moved on they just got left behind sadly

Spot on! I miss my Vega...
I think the Pred does hold most UK national wins or something along those lines... Mainly because the core design never changed! Now with the manufacturers bringing out new kits every year or so it's a title the Pred will forever hold.

[xfactor]

Vegas were fantastic !!!!!!!!!. Lets not forget either it gave Lee Martin his BRCA NATIONAL TITLE.

So SHIT as stated is a little stupid dont you think . Oh and that was with the Tamiya Gen2 Vega with the kick up.

[racingdwarf]

I will never miss my vega, sits on a shelf just looking mean It,s a car I will keep.