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#61
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#62
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If you take a little time to read the documentation on the EB site, you will find a list of things the submitter needs to submit along with the lipo. As far as I'm aware you don't get that when you buy the lipo from any store.
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MBModels - Schumacher Racing - Vapextech.co.uk - MRT - Savox - SMD |
#63
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Hi
I've been aimed at this thread - but think most of you have your head round why cells are homolgated - it basically makes sure that you're all using products where You can be assured the correct paperwork for the importation of that item has been done - and if something goes pear shaped you don't end up carrying the can. Makes we wonder why the UK importers of other cells don't send them in for the trival (it covers the admin) cost? I think a headlong rush to adjust a sections rules to remove that bit of knowledge from the organisers would, certainly for me, make me happy to race (as i'd not touch a non-homologted cell with somebody else's stick). But there's no way what-so-ever i'd organise the event.. Make sure your existing (or new) meeting organisers are happy before voting that one through.. |
#64
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Hi Jim, out of curiosity, apart from the audit trail of paperwork and certification, what else is done when a battery is sent in for homologation?
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dragon paints : team tekin : fusion hobbies :SCHUMACHER RACING : Nuclear R/C for all my sticky and slippery stuff - if it needs gluing or lubing, Nuclear RC is the man! |
#65
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I'm sure if you email Paul Worsley or Russ Giles, they will let you know.
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MBModels - Schumacher Racing - Vapextech.co.uk - MRT - Savox - SMD |
#66
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Because I would rather them make that information public than just tell me Mark.
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dragon paints : team tekin : fusion hobbies :SCHUMACHER RACING : Nuclear R/C for all my sticky and slippery stuff - if it needs gluing or lubing, Nuclear RC is the man! |
#67
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#68
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http://www.brca.org/content/battery-...procedure/1399 Technically anyone could send batteries to the BRCA for homologation, but you would also have to send in: Quote:
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#69
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The reason drivers in other classes will buy the highest capacity cells is to keep as high an average voltage over the length of a race, for the most speed from the spec motor that just about every on road electric class runs. By using the EB list it ensures 1. That all batteries are available to buy in the UK. 2. That the batteries allowed are fixed for the year, so there's no battery of the month as new higher capacity cells come out. This why all the other sections that use the EB lists consider them a good thing. As off road is open regarding motors then voltage isn't a problem, and no one is trying to get down to the minimum weight in their buggies, off road is unique in electric classes by battery choice not being that important. If off road created a class with a fixed motor wind, with no battery restriction it would come down to battery performance to get the most speed possible with drivers buying higher and higher capacity packs to get that little extra speed out of the motor. Just like the old days of nimh when everyone chose to race with Intellects, even though they were unreliable junk that regularly failed or even exploded, but just because they kept a very slightly higher average voltage than other cells.
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#70
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If you contact the people who actually do the testing you will find out exactly what the procedure is, and if you want to make it public you can ask Paul Worsley if he would be happy for you to post it online.
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#71
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Correct me if i'm wrong but in the chats i've had with fellow racers / model shops etc - I am led to believe that there are 2 main suppliers of Lipo cells that we use in off road - regardless of who put's a sticker on them / sells them in the UK.
This (i'm told) is why some cells have the terminals on saddles the other way around. So far i've found that Turnigy and my older Trackpowers have connectors on the opposite side to my Intellect and HB packs. If this is indeed the case - that everything we use comes from either China Factory A or China Factory B then in my opinion, if a lipo set originates from an already approved supplier, then it's as good / safe / etc as any other? Re the figures / capacity / power argument - doesn't hold any water for me as i've tried all sorts of lipo's and can't see / feel / measure the difference on track. To that end I buy cheaper lipo's now as I see no point buying the highest C rating etc. |
#72
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If there are two factories, then for example, if they have quality control and matching, could it be the substandard cells ( by the manufactures tolerance) are sold to cheaper outlets that don't want them on the list?
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MBModels - Schumacher Racing - Vapextech.co.uk - MRT - Savox - SMD |
#73
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Mark, I think you missed Andy's point slightly.
Andy is suggesting all the technology, or lets call it the nasty bit of the cell is made in factory A or B. The brands who operate in our market ask these factories to package the nasty bit in a hard case to which ever particular brand design, so some do have hollow tubes and have blue plastic, others have black plastic but the point being the nasty bit has still come from factory A or factory B. So the produce from either factory is already on the list inside many different plastic boxes and stickers. So taking that on a step, all we're really doing is approving the plastic case. |
#74
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Just looking again at the in depth data required for approval, I'd suggest its likely to come from the manufacture rather than the brand, even if they change the letterhead.
It'd be interesting to compare the submissions for similarity's. Maybe we could identify which factory supplied which brand? I don't know I'm just guessing from my own experience in the MRO (maintenance, repair and overhaul) industry. Lots of rebranding but data sheet info nearly always comes from the source. |
#75
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i havent read through the whole thread, but my comments regarding the nano techs would be they are a great performing battery - not as good as my thunder powers or HPI Plazma's but more than enough for club racing. However, i have found the casing to be of pretty poor standard, and all but one i have owned have cracked during crashes or impacts in one way or another.
I don't necessarily think this deems them dangerous. All i have done is tape them up with electrical tape. I simply wouldn't use them again if i thought they were dangerous, and i am very selective in what car they are now used based on protection etc. However, i can see how the quality and thickness of the casing could be a reason for them not being approved.
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#76
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#77
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Many products come from same factorys it true but the spec they are built to for every supplier can be fully different.
To meet correct certification certain rules have to be followed and materials and only approved factorys to be used. getting the cells approved is costly for EU import rules, but gives you the best assurance the products are made to strict spec and safety regulations. Its the same for electronics and other manufacturing from overseas. There are batteries and electronics on the market from overseas that are just dangerous and don't pass regulations. You pay your money and take your chances. |
#78
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Or it would be if the initial statement you were confirming the interpretation of was correct
While it's true that there are a considerable number of 'labelled' cells there are quite a few manufacturers of the 'nasty bit' too now-a-days, well into double figures I'm lead to believe Plus of course the quality of the case is a key point. The checks done are to confirm that the cell in question meets the dimensional rules - but most importantly is accurate to the paperwork submitted with it and it wouldn't be the first time if one wasn't. However the fix - if any of you have bought, or are thinking of buying these should be simple:- Write to the supplier and give them a good kicking for not submitting them, if they still don't do it then, for the sake of £40, there must be a question mark over why not IMHO None of that paperwork is onerous, they should have it all in place simply to sell the product here. Or to put it simply:- Ask the question of the people doing this wrong, not the ones doing it right.. |
#79
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just my two penny worth
I see both sides of the story here and each has its merits Jim I wholeheartedly agree with what the BRCA is doing and the list , can I ask a question are batteries that are submitted, destructively tested ? sure dimensionally they may match submitted paperwork, but without disassembly how do you know whats inside . If they are dismantled my view has no back up I too have turnigy cells that I run at at club level and had no issues so far .this of course does not guarantee further failure .On the flip side I have had "quality" branded batteries off the approved list that have failed or ,swelled prematuerely (no misuse either) regards Dave fid |
#80
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We had a hell of a job getting quotes from 3 different manufacturers, kept seeing the same quotes from the same office with the same drawings and terms with different headers.......... |
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