Entry fees

[Belsten]

I know I didnt attend the agm before anyone says it but I though this could be worthy of a little discussion on a public forum to gauge peoples OPINIONS

Entry fees in the WRCA seem pretty much set at £10 per class per meeting, is there a reason for it ? Just seems expensive as its the same price as a national meeting

[DCM]

I can answer that one, thats what got voted in at the AGM, so we are stuck with it for 12 months, and I know people don't want to hear it, but if you don't like it, turn up, propose and vote, I did state at the AGM, that if we were running national class meetings, on national class tracks, with big entries, then £10 per class (£5 for juniors) was acceptable, but personally felt a more realistic price was £6 per class. As I was the only one who thought that was a good idea, it didn't get through.

[Mikey G]

Originally Posted by DCM

I can answer that one, thats what got voted in at the AGM, so we are stuck with it for 12 months, and I know people don't want to hear it, but if you don't like it, turn up, propose and vote, I did state at the AGM, that if we were running national class meetings, on national class tracks, with big entries, then £10 per class (£5 for juniors) was acceptable, but personally felt a more realistic price was £6 per class. As I was the only one who thought that was a good idea, it didn't get through.

Its a fact of life at the moment that things are getting a little more expensive. When you start to factor in the cost of land and equipment to maintain a track I think its fair we charge a fair price for entry for the clubs to benefit. If these regionals carry on being treated as national events then expect to pay a national price. If you want to stay at your club week in week out fair enough, then pay your club fees and be happy. I dont know anywhere that charges less than a tenner for any event these days and the summer nitro series that most of Talywain race at is £12 a round.

[gnr racer]

On a sidenote...personally i think £10 for running a 2nd class is over the top especially as last year running a 2nd class was an additional £5
Apparantly this was voted in at the agm (which i did attend) but i cant remember it being agreed...maybe i was asleep or munching on a spam sarnie

[Mikey G]

Originally Posted by gnr racer

On a sidenote...personally i think £10 for running a 2nd class is over the top especially as last year running a 2nd class was an additional £5
Apparantly this was voted in at the agm (which i did attend) but i cant remember it being agreed...maybe i was asleep or munching on a spam sarnie

I thought the 2nd class for £5 still applied? but then again I have no intentions of doing a second class as I cant control my 1 entry as it is so I probably fell asleep or was eating at the AGM too...

[Shaun 'TheSheep' Atkinson]

All the ME regionals i've attended this year have been £8

[DCM]

it was proposed by Matt and seconded by Steve Axon...

A national is £10 an entry, we are not running to national level, so why should we pay national fee's is my attitude. We need to encourage people to attend the regionals, if they perceive them as too expensive (and as far as I am concerned, for outdoors, £10 is), then there will be lots who won't attend, let alone run a second class.

[Mikey G]

Every race I attend is not to national level (apart from the truggy nationals, 2 days, £20) and in the last 2 years I can only recall 2 or 3 days where I paid less than a tenner.
Not run to national level? Could have fooled me with the top dog barking the orders of vis vests in pits and staying on the rostrum. Shall we start to do scrutineering next?

My point is the WRCA are expecting to run the events very close to national BRCA rules and the price IMO seems to be a standard wherever I race even at non regional events.
I come from a background of motorsport and trackdays and paying £100-£1000 an event wasnt unusual so for me £10 for a days racing is a bargain..

[Si G]

As alluded to above, as the agm wasn't well attended, those who didn't attend (me included) will struggle to get support from those who did. However, from memory I think the agm was re-arranged relatively "late in the day" which didn't help attendance.

One thing I think should be considered is the disparity between the nitro and electric track-time despite them both costing the same.

Nitros have 3 qualifiers + practice, each quali is 5 mins plus 2+ mins warm-up, then a 20 min final = grand total of at least 46 mins track time (excluding bump-ups).

Electric is only 30 mins total including practice.

SO, I propose in advance of the next agm that whatever price is settled on, electric should be 2/3 the cost of nitro per entry. Please second it someone!

[axeman]

£10 is not a lot
it could get you 7 1/2min of dirty phone sex!!!
15 bottles of bud
3 issues of razzle
12 condons
1 large dominos pizza

But me I would rather a days racing, and flashing my ass crack at you lot!!!

[DCM]

Originally Posted by Mikey G

Every race I attend is not to national level (apart from the truggy nationals, 2 days, £20) and in the last 2 years I can only recall 2 or 3 days where I paid less than a tenner.
Not run to national level? Could have fooled me with the top dog barking the orders of vis vests in pits and staying on the rostrum. Shall we start to do scrutineering next?

My point is the WRCA are expecting to run the events very close to national BRCA rules and the price IMO seems to be a standard wherever I race even at non regional events.
I come from a background of motorsport and trackdays and paying £100-£1000 an event wasnt unusual so for me £10 for a days racing is a bargain..

Right, lets get a couple of matters cleared up here....

High Vis vests... - as a nitro racer, you should have, as part of your equipement, a high vis vest, this is a must due to H&S, BRCA Insurance, and also, for the race director to determine who is who in the pit lane. Same goes for the 'no-smoking' too.

Right, difference between a 'national' run eveny, and our 'regionals', which, comared to how the bigger regions are run, is very lax. If we were to run to FULL regional rules (electric quoting now), on top of what we are doing....

Motor scrutineering
Battery scrutineering
transmitter pound
car scrutineering
track width
rostrum height (Talywain and Saundersfoot comply)
Rostrum length (Talywain and Saundersfoot comply)
Referee's

This is just off the top of my head, so when we have all this in place, at each club that holds a regional, then I will happily comply with the reasoning of the pricing @ £10, but in the meantime, the price is not justified. We are currently trying to pull people back in to attending our Regional series, but the price is off putting, as most who don't, either don't see the point in it, think it is costly etc. So by having a 'reasonable' entry fee, and clubs putting the effort in, to bring back the numbers, all you are doing is shooting yourself in the foot, short term gain, for no long term plan.

As much as I hate saying it, our region is seriously lacking in a lot of areas, some are within our control to change, and others aren't. If you were to ask me why I am on the committee, then my answer would be, to cultivate grass roots racing, to bring on more drivers who would then be willing to move up to compete at a regional level. To be able to do that, we have to have strong healthy clubs, and that gives strong healthy tracks, once those are in place, then the Regionals will be far better, as people will look forward to going, entries will increase, and racing will become more popular.

[Belsten]

I had a feeling that it was agreed at the agm hence the specific wording of my initial post

I didnt go so who am I to moan

I just wanted a discussion and to gauge peoples OPINIONS

Dont really want anyone getting on their horse and saying you didnt go so you dont have a right to have an opinion

Hmmm Mikey, national standard regionals ? Ive only done 1 out of the 2 regionals so far and from what I have experienced and heard, national standard it is not. Dont get me wrong, I am not knocking the excellent job that everyone does, I just feel that is a ridiculous comparison to make. Especially from an electric standpoint, what 10 entries per class at GNR ? Compared to 120 in each class at a national ?

Now being the seasoned hardcore racer I am, I have raced in a lot of regions over the years and have never, ever paid the same amount to race at a regional as I have at a national anywhere else other than here. £10 isnt a huge amount of money to me, £20 for each meeting (2 classes) over 6 regionals is £120. In all honesty does not inspire me, it wont stop me

The point of me raising it as a topic for DEBATE is more of a matter of principle and to gauge how other people FEEL.

If I was bringing my child in the hobby for the 1st time, it may make me think about it having already lashed out hundereds on competitive equipment

[DCM]

it is a debate that needs talking about, racing costs a lot for a lot of people, especially when they have money commitments elsewhere, by having high costs, you are forcing lots to think... regional or club... and lots are plumping for club racing.

And I am not going to condem people for not attending the AGM, but I think it may be worth getting more 'pre-organised' for the next AGM, so maybe an electronic vote can also be used, will have to discuss that. The more people who actively take part in a decision, the better an understanding of that the members want.

And I am with Dave, seasoned, been there, raced most of it.

[Dyna]

I suppose you could say a tenner isnt a lot in the grand scheme of things - you can spend more than that going to the movies these days for an hour and half of rubbish - but if the Nationals are charging that, i dont think our Regionals should be, just on principal. Our numbers are just too low.

Charging 7-8 quid per class seems nearer the mark to me. That extra 2-3 quid less looks a lot more on paper, if you see what i mean ?

I think once the next AGM is due, get it announced well before the date in every place possible. I missed last years as i didnt realy start racing again properly until this year, but i will be there if possible.

And Si G ? I'll second your suggestion of electrics being 2/3d the cost of Nitro if we are running 2/3s the track time Unless of course we can run 3-leg finals like the top National Finals do for extra fun and get closer to the Nitro's run time

[ant west 71]

hi all, i know i dont have much say in this matter as i did not turn up for the AGM. but it would be nice to see the price lowered a little. 60 pound for a total of 3 hours racing toy cars seem a little extreme. ive two sons that want to race to, but had to push them into rc rock crawling, much easyier on my pocket. as i love racing i will pay the fee for myself, but thats as far as it goes while im out of work. as our children are the future for the sport i think it would not hurt if under 16s were free to help reel more people into the sport

[axeman]

One of the reasons I voted at the AGM to keep the cost at £10 was because last year and again this year it was the revenue from the WRCA rounds that keeps smaller clubs like GNR going.
Unfortunatly GNR / Talywain have to give up nearly Half of all entry fees to the land owners, It's just how it works.

GNR took £500 ish
Land owner £200
3 new lawnmowers £200
sand and cement for track £50
money left in club £50

But it was having that money that got us the mowers which will keep the club going another 12months

But I'm well behind Mr Dyna's Idea that juniors are free next year!!!

[DCM]

Ant, I got 5 kids, 3 are racing now, my youngest also wants to, and I don't begrudge paying half price for their entry, to be fair, but I have been selective as to which tracks I think they would manage.

If GNR is struggling, then it must look at it's own needs, why is it not making money/enough money, to operate on yearly basis, then fix it, the Regional should be a healthy income, not the life line of the club.

[peetbee]

Personally, I like the idea of reducing the cost of entering a 2nd class as this would hopefully encourage people to run 2 cars.
This would both increase the number of cars running, make the championship more interesting and generate a little more income for the clubs. If you have races with just a couple of cars it doesn't make it great from a spectators point of view.

It would be interesting to find out the proportion of drivers who currently enter two classes versus how many would run 2 cars if the price was halved for the 2nd class. (Even if it would disprove my theory!)

From Caldicot's point of view, it is unlikely that we will even cover our costs, but feel it is important to hold a round for the sake of the sport in Wales.

[minimatto]

As a track organiser I feel that if the WRCA fees are reduced then Talywain would not be inclined to hold an event.

We held 2 National events and a round of the 8-10 nitro series and the revenue earned from these events are between £800 to £1000 each event. As a round of the WRCA takes the same amount of work and preparation then why would we bother to hold an event that would bring in around £400.

I know we should be doing the regional to help the regional drivers, but so should the regional drivers help support the regional clubs.

Talywain is lucky as a club that gets to hold large events to help the finances, but there are other smaller clubs in Wales who need as much revenue from regional rounds to keep the club going.

As for dwindling numbers in the region, when was the last time we had an entry of 75 drivers like we did at Talywain for round 1, and yet i did get 1 complaint about the entry fee.

The Wrca committee and the Welsh clubs have worked hard over the past 2 years to revive the regionals, and it would be a pity to see it go down hill again over a few quid per person.

[peetbee]

Matt, to be fair about the dwindling numbers, that's in reference to 10th electric and the heady days of a regional getting 100+ drivers just for that class. (many years ago!)

It would be interesting to see how many people would enter a 2nd class if that was at a reduced rate, thus boosting overall income for the clubs.

Alternatively at the next AGM, the rule could be amended to be a maximum of £10 leaving clubs free to charge the amount applicable to their venue?

Just a couple of thoughts to provoke discussion!