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  #21  
Old 07-04-2009
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maybe the problem with F1.... to many rules, to complex too, so it is easy to find loop-holes, if you employ an engineering lawyer to disect the rules and find the 'grey' areas.

It is interesting reading, about Ferrari, and they are thinking that there KERS system might well be hindering their car, with a smaller fuel load, and a higher fuel tank, due to the location of the battery pack. Others are saying that the extra weight of the KERS and it's placement, is making the cars more unstable under braking, due to weight placement, and how it affects the engine braking effects too.
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  #22  
Old 07-04-2009
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You`re right there is a difference in cost of 10 wings and a new car, what I ment was they will always spend what they have. So the overall spending will not increase because of the diffuser. As for staying behind because the "3" will also develop, well that`s F1, they had the chance to clarify the rules a year ago (see the link I posted) and didn`t take it. putting that season in the bin and concentrating on next years car will not always work! First you can`t just abonden a season, there a lot of sponsorship commitments that would rather see some definite podiums / points this year as some "maybe" wins next year. Brawn were not just great, but also a bit lucky. They could simulate the laptimes they would achieve this year, but they could have never predicted the other cars performences until those cars hit the track in january. Just take a look at BMW, they tried to concentrate on the 2009 car quite a bit earlier than usual, and where are they? exactly where they were last year!
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  #23  
Old 07-04-2009
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Well everything surrounding KERS is quite interesting, but it`s also one of F1`s biggest mistakes. They made the teams develop a system, then when the money was spent, they decide it`s all for the bin as they `ll have to use the standard KERS 2010. What a joke. I hope Williams gets their quite different system up and running as soon as possible, and it`s a shame we never saw the Honda system in action
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  #24  
Old 07-04-2009
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But if some teams asked if they could do it and got told no they can't and others got told they can, then it's got nothing to do with a proposed rule change. And you can understand that those teams who were told they can't do it aren't happy at all because they wouldn't be where they are if the FIA had been consistent in its replies.

Besides Brawn only proposed it to FOTA which is not the organisation that votes the rules. As I understand it, they can only word their opinion on what the rules are and propose changes, but it's ultimately the FIA that writes and votes the rules.
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  #25  
Old 07-04-2009
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Flywheel KERS... I can't see it working that well to be honest, there'll be massive gyroscopic effect from it...
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  #26  
Old 07-04-2009
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as I understand, the Williams Kers is pretty compact....
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  #27  
Old 07-04-2009
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The smaller it is, the faster it'll have to spin, more gyroscopic effect...
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  #28  
Old 07-04-2009
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true true and true...But as I said before, we don`t know the exact wording Renault, RedBull used! We will probably never know and that`s the pitty, wichever way the FIA decides next week, the controversy will go on.

The beauty of the massive rulechange is, everything is massively different. Totally different concepts in every aspect. That`s also the reason I want to see the Williams flywheel KERS on track, as I understand Honda was going to use a similar system by mid-season, starting the season with a "standard" one.
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  #29  
Old 07-04-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabs View Post
But if some teams asked if they could do it and got told no they can't and others got told they can, then it's got nothing to do with a proposed rule change. And you can understand that those teams who were told they can't do it aren't happy at all because they wouldn't be where they are if the FIA had been consistent in its replies.

Besides Brawn only proposed it to FOTA which is not the organisation that votes the rules. As I understand it, they can only word their opinion on what the rules are and propose changes, but it's ultimately the FIA that writes and votes the rules.
Fabs, you don't know how each question was worded? What about Ferrari's wing mirrors? Same issue. The problem is the rules, but do you really think it's fair to punish Brawn by removing their points? Afterall, only Renault were allowed an engine redesign this winter!!

P.S. The 3 diffuser teams are the three teams who didn't take part in writing the rule, and didn't have preconceptions about what it intended nut just read it, worth bearing that in mind!
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  #30  
Old 07-04-2009
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The smaller it is, the faster it'll have to spin, more gyroscopic effect...
Depends on weight, it is bloody dangerous potentially though!
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  #31  
Old 07-04-2009
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The danger is another thing. Could the flywheel be behind the drivers head?



I know it should be save, but we never know what an accident could do. Let`s hope we`ll never get to know.
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  #32  
Old 07-04-2009
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Very true, we don't know what wording has been used, but the fact remains the same, and I think you'll agree with me there:

WE DIDN'T NEED this sort of controversy at the start of the season and the rules as they are at the moment are rubbish.

Oh and the FIA should have clarified things once and for all right away...
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  #33  
Old 07-04-2009
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Quote:
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Depends on weight, it is bloody dangerous potentially though!
Ha ha because having 15 kg or so of LIPOs under the drivers seat isn't dangerous? Imagine what happens ii they get damaged in the event of a crash.. Well we've seen the smoke pouring in raikonnen's cockpit in malaysia, these are toxic fumes, ouch...
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  #34  
Old 07-04-2009
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hmmm, a spinning disk, rotating really has, horizontally, right behind the drivers neck.... hope it got a thick Kevlar shroud then... otherwise we will have some headless drivers!!!
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  #35  
Old 07-04-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabs View Post
Ha ha because having 15 kg or so of LIPOs under the drivers seat isn't dangerous? Imagine what happens ii they get damaged in the event of a crash.. Well we've seen the smoke pouring in raikonnen's cockpit in malaysia, these are toxic fumes, ouch...
I think it will be ok if they are on the BRCA list and have a hard bonded casing
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  #36  
Old 07-04-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabs View Post
Ha ha because having 15 kg or so of LIPOs under the drivers seat isn't dangerous? Imagine what happens ii they get damaged in the event of a crash.. Well we've seen the smoke pouring in raikonnen's cockpit in malaysia, these are toxic fumes, ouch...
That smoke would have been the fire extinguisher, you could see if coming out the back too as it goes around the engine.
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  #37  
Old 07-04-2009
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That smoke would have been the fire extinguisher, you could see if coming out the back too as it goes around the engine.
Exactly, you could also see Raikkonen switch it on on the straight. Safety issue nonetheless, he should have pulled right over, for his own sake.
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  #38  
Old 07-04-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabs View Post
Ha ha because having 15 kg or so of LIPOs under the drivers seat isn't dangerous? Imagine what happens ii they get damaged in the event of a crash.. Well we've seen the smoke pouring in raikonnen's cockpit in malaysia, these are toxic fumes, ouch...
Yeah I actually meant more dangerous to a fan or marshal etc if the flywheel detachs in an accident, both types are pretty dangerous to anyone in/touching the car, butthe flywheel more so to others.
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  #39  
Old 07-04-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xjr14 View Post
Exactly, you could also see Raikkonen switch it on on the straight. Safety issue nonetheless, he should have pulled right over, for his own sake.
Don't the fire extinuisher come on automaitcally when it detects faults/fire/smoke?
Sure that they said that it was the battery melting which caused most of the smoke. Nice! Kimi was probably hitting the radio buton, telling the team that he couldn't breathe!

Regarding the rear difuser, I can't see them banning it now. Not unless they let the teams keep their points. It was passed by the FIA before the season, then at Aussie, then at malaysia...and the teams' original protest was thrown out by the FIA.

Basically, the other designers have got the arse on because they didn't think of it, and know how far into the season its going to be before they get one on their cars themselves.
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  #40  
Old 07-04-2009
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if they ban it now what are the teams using it going to do, Can they develope a replacement within time for the next race. The way its going now it will end up the Fia giving all the teams the same standard body and letting them fit the mechanics

Kimi,s car smoking http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/7981019.stm about 30 seconds in
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