Go Back   oOple.com Forums > General > General Race Chat

View Poll Results: What you guys recon -
Yes - 4wd designed cars should be allowed to run as 2wd cars 105 39.47%
No - 4wd designed cars should not be allowed run as 2wd cars 107 40.23%
Not bothered 54 20.30%
Voters: 266. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #141  
Old 31-07-2013
bobbin bobbin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hants
Posts: 209
Default

I saw first-hand the development of the CAT and PB 4wd drive cars which radically changed the sport in the 80’s.

Lipos and brushless motors again change the sport, making it possible for a privateer to compete with the pros and sponsored drivers without having to spend a fortune, which is a good thing.

I can’t see a problem with people using one car in two classes, would rather see that than the fall in numbers witnessed in the late 90’s.

For anyone new coming into the sport, it can be a real minefield choosing what to buy, having a car which can be run in two classes would be a real draw and it’s only a matter of time before one of the big manufactures develops one.

The key for this sport to continue to grow from strength to strength is design; development and keeping cost down and if it means having one car that can be run in two classes so be it.
Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 31-07-2013
bigred5765's Avatar
bigred5765 bigred5765 is offline
Lion-O - King of the Thundercats
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: chorley
Posts: 8,474
Send a message via MSN to bigred5765 Send a message via Skype™ to bigred5765
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Martin View Post
Taking Carl's argument further.... say you ban the use of the 'same' car both days... how far do you go? Many 2wd and 4wd cars from the same manufacturer use the same parts on each car. Arms, hubs, rear end structures, geometry....

So could this also be cheating? As you are using the same 'parts' both days?
How far do you take it?
I think put simply, if 2 wheels are driven, its 2wd.

I dunno really how much more you can say or do about it.

I understand why its happening though. As over years and years when racing on standard surfaces, generally development drivers strive for ways to add more grip and steering to '2wd' cars. When we set these cars down on bumpy mega Velcro tracks it makes them extremely nervous and hard to drive. The mid motor trend was the first progression to cure this.
As for 4wd, its not likely that developers have gone to the same extents in search for grip, as obviously its 4wd originally. So this leads me to believe that our current range of 2wd cars on high grip are not suited and have also never been developed for this, thus making the 4wd/2wd cars feel easier to drive.
The DB1 showed that this could be the case at Silverstone last year and to be honest, the TMC2 thing has really showed that a simple redesign can make a competitive car when the conditions are right.

This is just an unfortunate stepping stone to where the future is for this type of racing condition I think.
I know what your saying lee and I kinda agree, but my point was or is
running 4wd in 2wd on Saturday gives you time to dial the car set up in
so on Sunday the car is already dialed to the track IE dampers spring etc etc,so on Sunday pop your drive shafts in and bingo bango car is dial straight of the bat,
I no a man of your driving skills it wouldn't matter to much, I'm sure you could drive a Tonka truck round IN 2WD MODE and still stick it in the A Main but for the minions it makes a huge difference.
im not against full 2wd conversions infact as someone else already stated it the way to innovate
__________________
Mattys the driver,my names carl
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 31-07-2013
Sabesto Sabesto is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 73
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark christopher View Post
Was making comment re the two posts I quoted.....

To you easy

2wd may only have one driven axle, no other gearbox or housing designed to carry gears or a differential will be permitted
It's not easy! as I said its not a gearbox if its not converting power/torque and its not a diff if its not providing an action to anything. It's just mass!!
So I would argue its designed to carry mass not a diff!
You can't ban housings as every bearing on the car has a housing!
And lastly you couldn't police the rules, even if you could come up with a watertight wording of the rules!
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 31-07-2013
mark christopher's Avatar
mark christopher mark christopher is offline
Spends too long on oOple ...
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: haxey, doncaster
Posts: 7,787
Send a message via MSN to mark christopher
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabesto View Post
It's not easy! as I said its not a gearbox if its not converting power/torque and its not a diff if its not providing an action to anything. It's just mass!!
So I would argue its designed to carry mass not a diff!
You can't ban housings as every bearing on the car has a housing!
And lastly you couldn't police the rules, even if you could come up with a watertight wording of the rules!
Utter bolloxs show me one dedicated 2wd car that has a gearbox/bulkhead capable of carrying a diff or "mass" or a dedicated 2wd that has bearing housings for drive train on the non driven axle end other than the wheels
__________________
MBModels - Schumacher Racing - Vapextech.co.uk - MRT - Savox - SMD
Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 31-07-2013
Sabesto Sabesto is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 73
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark christopher View Post
Utter bolloxs show me one dedicated 2wd car that has a gearbox/bulkhead capable of carrying a diff or "mass" or a dedicated 2wd that has bearing housings for drive train on the non driven axle end other than the wheels
Your right I can't show you one. However if I could be bothered (which I can't)
I could design and build one that was designed to carry mass! That's the point I'm making, It would be impossible to make a rule up, that wouldn't have a loophole in it and it would be impossible to police such a rule. So why not just keep the rules simple like they are?
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 31-07-2013
spenner's Avatar
spenner spenner is offline
Mad Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northampton
Posts: 1,204
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabesto View Post
It's not easy! as I said its not a gearbox if its not converting power/torque and its not a diff if its not providing an action to anything. It's just mass!!
So I would argue its designed to carry mass not a diff!
You can't ban housings as every bearing on the car has a housing!
And lastly you couldn't police the rules, even if you could come up with a watertight wording of the rules!
Clearly someone with a bit of knowledge.... Spot on in my eyes!
__________________
X Factory UK - Team Corally - DMS Racing - Tuning Haus - Exotek - Avid - Alpha - JConcepts
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 31-07-2013
Skidrow's Avatar
Skidrow Skidrow is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 162
Default

was extremely interesting to see xrays converted XB4s running in 2wd at the euros. I believe shock locations , oil /piston set ups,camber link locations ,ballasting etc were completely different to the ones chosen for the 4wd event so i dont think they can be considered having gained free practice (in this case at least) compared to drivers than only run 4wd

By the way i would like to know more on the proceedings that led to the ban of FWD cars from 2wd in the 87 worlds. How was this done? In my mind it seems like the small german manufacturer that managed to go very well with his schumacher based FFs lost a political type of battle to AE , Kyosho (short end of the stick). Am i wrong?

In my opinion FWD should be allowed the same freedom as RWD. Spec tires used for driving axle complete freedom (or the same type of freedom ) for the non driving axle as RWD

Also why not use the gyroscopic effects of additional rotating parts? even if proved almost necessary to have in the future ( which i dont think they will be in all tracks and conditions) , they will be relatively cheap and provide an additional technological dimension to the sport (they are not like some type of electronic traction control that only few can afford or tune with their own powers/abilities)
__________________
http://bbyfactory.blogspot.com/

Optional Parts & Car kits
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 31-07-2013
spenner's Avatar
spenner spenner is offline
Mad Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northampton
Posts: 1,204
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidrow View Post
was extremely interesting to see xrays converted XB4s running in 2wd at the euros. I believe shock locations , oil /piston set ups,camber link locations ,ballasting etc were completely different to the ones chosen for the 4wd event so i dont think they can be considered having gained free practice (in this case at least) compared to drivers than only run 4wd

Note: The Xray cars at the euros had a 2wd front end...
__________________
X Factory UK - Team Corally - DMS Racing - Tuning Haus - Exotek - Avid - Alpha - JConcepts
Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 31-07-2013
Skidrow's Avatar
Skidrow Skidrow is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 162
Default

This means that they didnt have a powered differential rotating?

otherwise all suspension components were xb4 (empty diff housing included) , chassis bent for more kick up and some hangars for lower inboard camber link locations thats all


Quote:
Originally Posted by spenner View Post
Note: The Xray cars at the euros had a 2wd front end...
__________________
http://bbyfactory.blogspot.com/

Optional Parts & Car kits
Reply With Quote
  #150  
Old 31-07-2013
johnboy's Avatar
johnboy johnboy is offline
Legendary dude
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The 3rd world (Manchester)
Posts: 1,019
Default

Ok on the flip side of all this average joe clubman on a budget what better way to do both classes if all needs to do is remove front driveshafts.
__________________
http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19287 my feedback profile

Elite R/C racing
Optipower
Reply With Quote
  #151  
Old 31-07-2013
Skidrow's Avatar
Skidrow Skidrow is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 162
Default

important point for the majority of drivers who have no major sponsors

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnboy View Post
Ok on the flip side of all this average joe clubman on a budget what better way to do both classes if all needs to do is remove front driveshafts.
__________________
http://bbyfactory.blogspot.com/

Optional Parts & Car kits
Reply With Quote
  #152  
Old 31-07-2013
woOdy woOdy is offline
Stu-Perstar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Radcliffe, Manchester.
Posts: 1,457
Default

Just had a chat with Jamie Booth at SMD and he said the getting the chassis scrutteneered when booking in so you have to choose 1 chassis for the day. I think it has already been said on here so I apologise if going over old ground.
Reply With Quote
  #153  
Old 31-07-2013
Lee24h's Avatar
Lee24h Lee24h is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northampton
Posts: 758
Default

You a buy a 4wd to race a 4wd clas
You buy a touring car to race touring
You buy a 8th nitro to race 8th nitro
You buy a 2wd to race 2wd
(Just because xray are experimenting with a xb4 in 2wd you will also notice most have a b4 front end and chassis mods under the shell it seems people look at picture and think i can do that without looking at the engineering and principles behind the the xb4/2 experiments
And i think cars do go to quick on astro a 2wd buggy doing the top end of 30 indoors on astro gimme grass n dirt any day
Reply With Quote
  #154  
Old 31-07-2013
chuckie stella's Avatar
chuckie stella chuckie stella is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Northampton
Posts: 865
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee24h View Post
gimme grass n dirt any day
Build it lazy boy and they will come!
__________________
Absima - InsideLineRacing - Puppy Paint
Reply With Quote
  #155  
Old 31-07-2013
Lee24h's Avatar
Lee24h Lee24h is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northampton
Posts: 758
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckie stella View Post
Build it lazy boy and they will come!
Ill build it if i get the support of a local club and land permission ild love to run in that horse shed again
Reply With Quote
  #156  
Old 31-07-2013
mark christopher's Avatar
mark christopher mark christopher is offline
Spends too long on oOple ...
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: haxey, doncaster
Posts: 7,787
Send a message via MSN to mark christopher
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnboy View Post
Ok on the flip side of all this average joe clubman on a budget what better way to do both classes if all needs to do is remove front driveshafts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidrow View Post
important point for the majority of drivers who have no major sponsors
all well and good but the drivers who have done it have said soon as the grip is low (not super high grip astro) then they're not as good.

agree it would be nice to have one car to do all but in a real world, if a manufacture came up with a car that could do both folk would still buy one of each to run on both days, or as in the oOple series where both classes are on the same days, your screwed then!
__________________
MBModels - Schumacher Racing - Vapextech.co.uk - MRT - Savox - SMD

Last edited by Col; 31-07-2013 at 07:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #157  
Old 31-07-2013
OldTimer's Avatar
OldTimer OldTimer is offline
Mad Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,150
Default

So people are adapting there cars to suit track conditions big deal, we have been doing this years

But be careful what you wish for as tightening rules in my eyes will limit innovation, and you will end up driving similar cars but just with a different manufactures logo on it.
__________________
Jonathan | Atomic-Carbon
Reply With Quote
  #158  
Old 31-07-2013
GRIFF55 GRIFF55 is offline
Spends too long on oOple ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sunny South West Wales
Posts: 4,875
Default

I like the idea of one car for both days! Less dosh is always a good thing for any hobby.
Surely the setup advantage thing is a load of shite? Most people run the same make 2 and 4wds anyway, so could easily whip shocks onto your car for Sunday?
Most national track surfaces have been run on in previous years anyway, so a good setup is out here somewhere for all.

I'm thinking 2wd car both days at oz, can I do this?
__________________
~ICON-RC~ATOMIC CARBON~LMR~TONISPORT~NUCLEAR RC~
Reply With Quote
  #159  
Old 31-07-2013
MattW's Avatar
MattW MattW is offline
Mad Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 1,396
Send a message via MSN to MattW
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark christopher View Post
Utter bolloxs show me one dedicated 2wd car that has a gearbox/bulkhead capable of carrying a diff or "mass" or a dedicated 2wd that has bearing housings for drive train on the non driven axle end other than the wheels
Correct as things stand today. However, let's say Durango decide to do a new 2wd car - we'll call it the DEX410-2 . What they actually do it take some 410 kits, remove the front driveshafts, front diff, and front prop. They then sell the car like this. So what you have is a car that is "designed" as a 2wd (it's sold that way, so it must be!!), but has all the bits to accommodate a front diff / convert to 4wd if you wished that could be purchased later. I used Durango as my example, as it has been said that their drivers removed all the front drive train. I happen to know that at least one of them tried the car with the drive train left in while testing, but didn't like it!!

Carl - so your point on the front drivetrain isn't entirely valid - but I know what you're saying. I can see the pros and cons for leaving it in. My gut feeling is that some of those that left it in were what's best described as being "economical with their wrenching".
__________________
Matthew White
Reply With Quote
  #160  
Old 31-07-2013
Sabesto Sabesto is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 73
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattW View Post
Correct as things stand today. However, let's say Durango decide to do a new 2wd car - we'll call it the DEX410-2 . What they actually do it take some 410 kits, remove the front driveshafts, front diff, and front prop. They then sell the car like this. So what you have is a car that is "designed" as a 2wd (it's sold that way, so it must be!!), but has all the bits to accommodate a front diff / convert to 4wd if you wished that could be purchased later. I used Durango as my example, as it has been said that their drivers removed all the front drive train. I happen to know that at least one of them tried the car with the drive train left in while testing, but didn't like it!!

Carl - so your point on the front drivetrain isn't entirely valid - but I know what you're saying. I can see the pros and cons for leaving it in. My gut feeling is that some of those that left it in were what's best described as being "economical with their wrenching".
Exactly!! finally someone with sence! Pretty much the point I was trying to make about implementing any rule to stop it, but maybe put across in a better manner than I did!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
oOple.com