superstox advise - Page 3

Chequered Flag Racing · #41 25-10-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark christopher

however im not sure what was run at the recent national

as per rules

top ten from Sunday

Adam Catchpole / Lotus
Chris Ashton / Ascari
Mark Jewitt / Ascari
Peter Craig / Lotus
Jamie Mcdonagh / ?
Glenn Atterton / Ascari
Graham Oliver / Ascari
Stephen Dobson / ?
Barry Manning / ?
Mick Harris / ?

mark christopher · #42 25-10-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chequered Flag Racing

as per rules

top ten from Sunday

Adam Catchpole / Lotus
Chris Ashton / Ascari
Mark Jewitt / Ascari
Peter Craig / Lotus
Jamie Mcdonagh / ?
Glenn Atterton / Ascari
Graham Oliver / Ascari
Stephen Dobson / ?
Barry Manning / ?
Mick Harris / ?

glen i meant as in the lotus/ascari as your list

Joe's 21.5 would not be "as per rules"

tisher · #43 26-10-2012

Right guys after a bit more advise

second proper run out tonight the car is getting quicker now but I am seriously struggling with grip roll

I am running 37 rear 50 front its that bad I have been hardly putting any additive on any ideas guys as this cost me badly in the final

I forgot to mention I moved out the rear springs into the middle and this helped a little bit

neallewis · #44 26-10-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by tisher

Right guys after a bit more advise

second proper run out tonight the car is getting quicker now but I am seriously struggling with grip roll

I am running 37 rear 50 front its that bad I have been hardly putting any additive on any ideas guys as this cost me badly in the final

I forgot to mention I moved out the rear springs into the middle and this helped a little bit

Run 4mm ride height all round. it may dip to 3.5mm under cells. 60 shore fronts, inner 1/2 additive, full additive on rears. I run stiffer springs than kit, red fronts, blue rears I think, might be green fronts? I run middle holes on rear pod. Are you running orings on links?

joker · #45 27-10-2012

im running 37 and 50 and i never put any additive on them dont think that you have to put additive on them try runing it with non next time ive got the kit springs on but i have move the rear springs to the outer holes and ive got red o rings on all the links. 4mm ride hite ive got no hint of grip roll and its very good

neallewis · #46 27-10-2012

I was grip rolling lots running no additive. Soon as I started plastering it on for every race, grip roll went. I took some advice from some of the more experienced 1/12th racers in my club, who all said the additive stops you grip rolling. By not running it, the tyres slip then grip hard, causing the grip rolls. It starts off fine, then as the grip comes up during the evening, the roll gets worse. Running additive every race got rid of my grip roll. A high car, or really high walled un-trued tyres will also have it however. if you have taken care of that, plaster on the additive...

tisher · #47 27-10-2012

A couple of different opinions there

I found the beginning of the meet the car was brilliant I was 2nd overall until round 3 when it started biting in and grip rolling I was running less additive so maybe I will try banging loads on and see what it does

I will get hold of a spring set as well to try harder springs. I am running the kit o rings as well something I have noticed is that you can not get the front of the car down to 4mm

CAT3K · #48 27-10-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by tisher

A couple of different opinions there

I found the beginning of the meet the car was brilliant I was 2nd overall until round 3 when it started biting in and grip rolling I was running less additive so maybe I will try banging loads on and see what it does

I will get hold of a spring set as well to try harder springs. I am running the kit o rings as well something I have noticed is that you can not get the front of the car down to 4mm

Flip the m3 nuts on the front springs over so it's nyloc side down, then you can run the nuts higher on the screw and get the front end as low as you like

joker · #49 27-10-2012

ye do what cat3k said you my need to put some more washers under the wishbone think where all running about 4/5mm of washers you can get them down to 2mm ride hite evan with full tyres

neallewis · #50 27-10-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by tisher

A couple of different opinions there

I found the beginning of the meet the car was brilliant I was 2nd overall until round 3 when it started biting in and grip rolling I was running less additive so maybe I will try banging loads on and see what it does

I will get hold of a spring set as well to try harder springs. I am running the kit o rings as well something I have noticed is that you can not get the front of the car down to 4mm

That's exactly the situation i was finding. Run more additive. I'm on red fronts and blue rear springs, but green work well on front also. Reversing the front lock nuts is an option or swapping the 30mm bolts for 35mm.

Apricot Slice · #51 28-10-2012

I want to help if I can but am too lazy to read the whole thread so excuse me if I am repeating things.

I would make sure there is no sloppiness in the grommet department.
If the grommets squidge about under cornering load it will cause additional steering and nackker your driving. (chassis flex will do the same thing because of the big distance between servo mounts and suspension mounts.)

I am running kit (sstox) tires, green springs on front and mardave pod at rear with no diff. (sstox rear is silly) It feels pretty good. My test driver has a diff in his and raced twice and got first and a second.

SlowOne · #52 28-10-2012

I realise it is counter-intuitive, nonetheless when the grip comes up you need the car to be softer. Additionally, the car needs to have smaller diameter tyres to remove some sidewall flex. Try 45mm fronts and 47mm rears.

You can also brush superglue on to the sidewalls of the front tyres to remove some grip, but that should only be in extremely high grip. The glue should be sidewall only, to the top of the sidewall, but not any on the tread of the tyre.

I see lots of cars where drivers are going harder and harder on the springs and tyres as the grip comes up, and then having grip-roll. The reason that it works better if you put some additive on is because that softens the tyre. As a rule of thumb, as the grip comes up use softer fronts. If the level of grip locks the rear in, then go to a harder rear.

50 front is too hard for your carpet. Go down to a 45 and see what happens, if necessary go to a 42. IF you can true them down to 47/45 then do so.

I do think from your description there is something up with the car, so a rebuild with the instructions in front of you might not go amiss. I've been doing this for 35 years, and mistakes made when building the car are still in my repertoire! HTH

tisher · #53 28-10-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlowOne

I realise it is counter-intuitive, nonetheless when the grip comes up you need the car to be softer. Additionally, the car needs to have smaller diameter tyres to remove some sidewall flex. Try 45mm fronts and 47mm rears.

You can also brush superglue on to the sidewalls of the front tyres to remove some grip, but that should only be in extremely high grip. The glue should be sidewall only, to the top of the sidewall, but not any on the tread of the tyre.

I see lots of cars where drivers are going harder and harder on the springs and tyres as the grip comes up, and then having grip-roll. The reason that it works better if you put some additive on is because that softens the tyre. As a rule of thumb, as the grip comes up use softer fronts. If the level of grip locks the rear in, then go to a harder rear.

50 front is too hard for your carpet. Go down to a 45 and see what happens, if necessary go to a 42. IF you can true them down to 47/45 then do so.

I do think from your description there is something up with the car, so a rebuild with the instructions in front of you might not go amiss. I've been doing this for 35 years, and mistakes made when building the car are still in my repertoire! HTH

Cheers for the advise I dont think I have done any thing wrong building the car but there must be something I am doing wrong as I used to get the same problem with the dave the only thing I can not do is true the tyres down as I have no way of doing this I always have to run them out of the box maybe this is the problem i dont know

SlowOne · #54 29-10-2012

The latest batches of Contact tyres will be coming in at 45 front and 47-ish rear, so hang in there!

neallewis · #55 29-10-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by tisher

Cheers for the advise I dont think I have done any thing wrong building the car but there must be something I am doing wrong as I used to get the same problem with the dave the only thing I can not do is true the tyres down as I have no way of doing this I always have to run them out of the box maybe this is the problem i dont know

If you had the same problem it must be tyre related. did you coat them with additive?
If you run your tyres a bit, they wear down, no need to true ;-)
Has anyone at your club got one that they can bring on a race night, or let them take home a set of your tyres to true down for the next meeting?

KJR · #56 30-10-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlowOne

The latest batches of Contact tyres will be coming in at 45 front and 47-ish rear, so hang in there!

This is a real shame. I normally start my tyres at 49 rear and 47 front. If you happen to be running a non adjustable rear pod then it means you will only get about 2mm of wear before you run out of rear ride height on a mardave.

Better get stocked up now !!

Dave Dodd · #57 30-10-2012

omg, cant believe they are changing the diameter again

.... just got my car working gr8 on 52mm + they last longer.. now gonna be 47mm

SlowOne · #58 01-11-2012

You'll find the new tyre sizes will be worth it for the handling improvement you'll get.

4_cell_racer · #59 02-11-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlowOne

You'll find the new tyre sizes will be worth it for the handling improvement you'll get.

But will they be cheaper lol

GhostlyRock · #60 02-11-2012

Take note of what the slowone says, 1/12th guys have loads of experience running foams and fighting grip roll. The smaller the tyres dia. generally you will get less grip roll due the rubber not moving across the tyre as much.
I bit the bullet, trued my tyres, 45.5/46.5, 35 rear 47 front, still run the kit springs, car handles a dream. If you still get it in high grip situations, superglue the front sidewalls and go for a softer spring, trust me it works.