Flex system Pics!!

[Rebelrc]

I think this td flex system people won't use the screws to adjust it. I think people will buy this kit then use a thread locked stud in to side pods ( on the adjuster bolt ) then use an m3 nyloc nut on top of the rubber and brace then at least then it won't loosen and you can put a little scratch on the Ali brace ( both sides ) then you can count the flats on the nuts for reliable and accurate adjustment. Hope this makes sense?

[mattr]

Originally Posted by jkclifford

What a load of crap, unless you've got the smalls torque wrench in the world how would you ever set either side the same, let alone use it as an adjustable brace. The only way a system like that can work is with shoulder bolts done up tight, with differnt graded bushes. Imho.

^^^^ What he said, you'll need a torque wrench which measures something like 0-1Nm with a graduations of about 0.05Nm. Not forgetting the variability you'll have in the rubber bushes.

They use a similar thing in some rubber mounts in automotive, but the size of the hardware is such that you are looking at torques of 50Nm, plus its not for tuning per se, so everything is done up to 50Nm, every time.

[andys]

Originally Posted by samd

must be cos your crap andy

Nice one Sam

I wouldnt say I'm crap, average maybe.

What I do know is bling when I see it. Durango are sure to be bringing out all manner of unnecessary alloy bling to keep the fashion conscious racers happy when the new plastic car is released. I'm sure this brace will be just the start.

[Adam Skelding]

How do you know this product is poor? You've not seen it yet alone use it?
Simple engineering means you can tune it's flexibility.

Regarding your post on torque settings.
I'm guessing you torque every screw on your car with a minute torque wrench to make sure it's not tweaked and then re-torque every screw after each run.

[jkclifford]

Simpley, no.

if two componants are done up so mating surfaces are tight, the torque is erelovent. (When using 3mm bolts onto plastic you could never achive a torque high enough to tweak a chassis)

If you are relying on torque setting as a setup I fail to see how it can be accurate.

As for the product beautifully machined, poor conept.

[captainlip]

Tbh I'm looking forward to hearing more about this and what other new products Durango bring out!

[jkclifford]

To note you never rely on torque wrench settings, unless you can wind the bolt into its maximum depth with minimum force (Finger tight ) otherwise you are getting restance from Threads as torque.

Can you build a model car with you fingers then torque the last turn?

[Adam Skelding]

Originally Posted by jkclifford

Simpley, no.

if two componants are done up so mating surfaces are tight, the torque is erelovent. (When using 3mm bolts onto plastic you could never achive a torque high enough to tweak a chassis)

If you are relying on torque setting as a setup I fail to see how it can be accurate.

As for the product beautifully machined, poor conept.

Hmmm.
Maybe your understanding of engineering is a little misguided.
Engine head bolts, wheel nuts/bolts are all tightened with a given torque setting for a reason.
It doesn't rely on a torque setting at all. The screws have a blank shank on them which simply only allows you to tighten them down a set amount, thus sets the pre-load on the bush. You then adjust this with washers.
The brace does work, we tested it and we don't release anything that doesn't offer an improvement in some form or other.

Maybe you need to reserve judgement before you cast it to the ' I've not tried it so it doesn't work bin'



As for tweaking plastic with a 3mm bolt. You can!

[captainlip]

And this is why I will be saving my pennies up for one of these

[jkclifford]

Originally Posted by Adam Skelding

Hmmm.
Maybe your understanding of engineering is a little misguided.
Engine head bolts, wheel nuts/bolts are all tightened with a given torque setting for a reason.
It doesn't rely on a torque setting at all. The screws have a blank shank on them which simply only allows you to tighten them down a set amount, thus sets the pre-load on the bush. You then adjust this with washers.
The brace does work, we tested it and we don't release anything that doesn't offer an improvement in some form or other.

Maybe you need to reserve judgement before you cast it to the ' I've not tried it so it doesn't work bin'



As for tweaking plastic with a 3mm bolt. You can!

My apologies .
The way the adjustment works is with shims.

not by slackening screws as first suggested.

[InsideLineModels]

That makes sense using washers to determine the preload on the bush. Nice tuning aid I reckon.

As for this general engineering comment, it's not quite true.. What is "tight"? I assume you mean a high preload? The preload is directly determined by the the torque and therefore it is relevant. Maybe not so much in this case but in a lap joint it's critical.

Originally Posted by jkclifford

if two componants are done up so mating surfaces are tight, the torque is erelovent.

[jkclifford]

The point I was trying to make, was chassis screws for example bolted into plastic gearbox holders, you do them up sensibly tight, it would be nigh on imposible to set by torque acuratly.due to the fact that the plastic drags and the bolt isn't loose all the way to the head of the bolt.

I still fail to see how you can do up 3mm bolts into plastic tight enough to crush it causing tweak without stripping the threads.

[mattr]

Originally Posted by Adam Skelding

It doesn't rely on a torque setting at all. The screws have a blank shank on them which simply only allows you to tighten them down a set amount, thus sets the pre-load on the bush. You then adjust this with washers.

Adam, I'd suggest changing this description then.

Originally Posted by Team-Durango

The flexibility of the rear of the chassis can be tuned by adjusting the tension of the mounting screws allowing you to tune your chassis flex for different track conditions.

It SOUNDS like you are suggesting changing the bolt torque to increase preload on the bush, when what you are actually intending is to shim the shoulder bolt/bush to get the same effect.
The increase in the bolt tension is misleading and pretty much irrelevant in this application (with a compressed rubber bush underneath it). As has been pointed out.

And i am well aware of the potential for changing chassis response by loosening or tightening screws in plastics, its one of the first "tune ups" for slot racing cars, loosen off the screws holding the shell to the chassis to improve road holding and cornering (allows the chassis to flex freely) even half a turn is enough to make a difference to some cars!

[coleman758]

I don't get some people...

You have never even seen the product, let alone drive a car with it on.
if it didn't work why would TD waste time and money developing it in the first place.

How it works is irrelevant as long as it does work...

[mattr]

Originally Posted by coleman758

How it works is irrelevant as long as it does work...

Well, not really. Trionz wrist bands (OMG WTF11!!!11!!) work.

Except they don't, its snake oil. People still buy millions of the damn things.

The original description of how the flex system works (changing tension in the bolts) means it wouldn't work in any realistic/practical sense. This put it pretty much in the same pot as the trionz bands. A way to make money.

Adams better description, (shims and bushes on a fixed length shaft) and me peering squint eyed at the picture on the durango site, shows that it should work, and be repeatable, and is based on good engineering. Which is good.

A lot of people take claims made by all manufacturers as gospel. Personally i like to understand how things work before parting with cash, hence the scepticism around the original description.

I might even buy one for my Durango now.

[Adam F]

I just love engineering arguments on here!

Basically you have just jumped to a conclusion based on a picture and slagged off a product, well done sirs...

I am sure you are fully qualified mechanical engineers too...

[Rebelrc]

Originally Posted by x313

I just love engineering arguments on here!

Basically you have just jumped to a conclusion based on a picture and slagged off a product, well done sirs...

I am sure you are fully qualified mechanical engineers too...

yes mega qualified cheers
X1313 how's your vega? Nicely engineered? Lol

[jkclifford]

Originally Posted by x313

I just love engineering arguments on here!

Basically you have just jumped to a conclusion based on a picture and slagged off a product, well done sirs...

I am sure you are fully qualified mechanical engineers too...

No not the picture the decription of how it was to be adjusted.

Qualified engineer, yes highly thanks. Ask anyone that knows me about the parts I have machined/ alterd.

[discostu]

IMO this car has traction issues at the rear carbon flex plates plastic ones adjustable ones get the shocks and roll centres sorted no need for all this flexi stuff. this is my opinon, ive driven rangos and dont like the feel and lack of rear traction compaired to other cars.

stu

[mattr]

Originally Posted by x313

I am sure you are fully qualified mechanical engineers too...

Erm, just to confirm, same as everyone else, i am also a qualified mechanical engineer.