Is technology outpacing driver skill?

[bedsrcmcc]

However, it will probably require all clubs to agree to these changes so that drivers who race at different clubs don't suddenly find themselves left on the sidelines with a car they can't use.

[Aire valley]

Originally Posted by bedsrcmcc

For the last 2 rounds of our Spring Championship we had a race ref stand on the rostrum and watch every race, giving drivers a strike for poor driving and with 3 strikes they would get 5 points deducted, another 3 strikes and 10 points and so on.

Guess what - everyone drove perfectly for those two rounds.

Now, take the ref away and what happens - I'll let you decide that one....

You've said it all there..! Back in the day, we used to have a chief Marshall doing the same thing..always worked..
IMO it's down to club rules and running the meetings strictly...seems hard at first but is appreciated after time..
The "referee on the rostrum" used to be a BRCA requirement at Nationals..does that still apply.?

[mattr]

Try an auto trials competition.
Like they have in 1:1. (The stuff with cones, parking spaces, reverse bits and such like)

They might call it something else now.

[qatmix]

At our club, if you bash into cars you dont go up into the better driver heats, no matter how fast you are, where as drivers who are smooth and keep out of trouble do move up into the better heats.

This makes the guys and girls at our club drive well.

We also have loan cars that are smooth and slow, many of the newcomers use these before they buy a car so they do see the benefit of smooth lines etc, most usually then buy a car with a fast brushless, but gear it down.

Personally I think technology is better now than its ever been, cheap and reliable. Our club is very busy now with everyone racing 1/10 onroad and their are a lot of great drivers coming through the ranks, and importantly lots of good young drivers.

The one thing I would like is manufacturers making a RTR car have a club std electrics set-up. 17.5 blinky is popular in the UK and US so if you bought a RTR with that set-up it would be great.

[bedsrcmcc]

Originally Posted by qatmix

The one thing I would like is manufacturers making a RTR car have a club std electrics set-up. 17.5 blinky is popular in the UK and US so if you bought a RTR with that set-up it would be great.

Now that would be a great solution

[bedsrcmcc]

Originally Posted by mattr

Try an auto trials competition.
Like they have in 1:1. (The stuff with cones, parking spaces, reverse bits and such like)

They might call it something else now.

That takes me back to my early days of RC racing. The club I raced at would always run auto tests at the end of the night, the quickest time (not always by the fastest driver) would score top points and after several weeks or months we'd award a trophy for the best driver

In those days I was doing it with a Tamiya Subaru Brat and my fellow RC racers had the likes of Holiday Buggies, Rough Riders and Sand Scorchers - that dates me, especially as we had them the first time they were released

Might just try that idea...

[DCM]

Technology isn't the issue here, we are ALL here to race, some (a lot) don't understand that a little slower=faster and you have to educate them. Yes the cars are faster these days, but also more robust and reliable and duration is much better.

Instead of blaming tech you need to look at why people want to race.

[Si Coe]

The thing is that in 1/10th off road there are RTR cars pre-supplied with club spec electrics. US club spec that is ie 13.5t non-boosted which is actually a problem. Its plenty quick enough for a new racer, but most ditch them almost immediately they can afford something faster.

This is the normal pattern of things. In 25 years I've only really seen 1 controlled racing class that was anything more than a 1 club curiosity (like your 1/12th truck is now) or a very short term fad (like stock Slash). That one class was Mardaves and thats really only because the whole point of the class was to be cheap.

However it is true that we face a dilemma with increasing quicker RTR cars meaning new drivers turn up with some very fast equipment. Its always going to be an uphill struggle to convince people to spend more money on something slower!

Perhaps the issue is that our racing hasn't moved with the changing technology. Maybe we need to consider longer races, with more drivers, on larger tracks. 20 drivers, 10 mins and a track more 1/8th sized.

[bedsrcmcc]

Originally Posted by Si Coe

Perhaps the issue is that our racing hasn't moved with the changing technology. Maybe we need to consider longer races, with more drivers, on larger tracks. 20 drivers, 10 mins and a track more 1/8th sized.

That's an interesting take on this topic although of course outdoor off-road is a very different beast to indoor hall racing on carpet where often smaller venues like ours have tighter tracks and less space.

BTW, I love ya sig I might the run the show but still marshal - you shouldn't need to worry about the computer once it's started - me see a cheap excuse

[bedsrcmcc]

Originally Posted by DCM

Technology isn't the issue here, we are ALL here to race, some (a lot) don't understand that a little slower=faster and you have to educate them. Yes the cars are faster these days, but also more robust and reliable and duration is much better.

Instead of blaming tech you need to look at why people want to race.

I've been 'educating' for a long time but I sometimes feel it falls on deaf ears

BTW, thanks for the posts fellow racers, some interesting thoughts and counter arguments I certainly don't have all the answers but it is interesting to gauge what others feel, so thanks for the interaction

[DCM]

Don't forget, 'back in the day' you had a limiting factor.... duration, this would stop most putting in silly motors etc. Funnily, we had a similar issue to you with touring cars, as the technology moved from NiMH's to LiPO and brushed to brushless, cars went faster but at the time we had a large indoor venue, when we had to switch to a smaller one, some of us older drivers went to slower motors, the ones who didn't were moaning about crashing. Sometimes I think the class you race is just as responsible for the issue as is the person.

We run in an area where, at the time was a mix of on-road and off-road, trying to convince someone to invest in a 13.5 for their tc was almost impossible, as it would never get used in their buggy.

As for beginners, we either suggest an RTR buggy or a GT12 (as they are almost indestructible)

[bedsrcmcc]

Originally Posted by DCM

As for beginners, we either suggest a GT12 (as they are almost indestructible)

Agreed they are great little cars, although try telling the poor driver who gets punted off all the time that they are indestructible - yes they are but the other drivers then feel that they can hit anyone or anything

We did come up a great idea to resolve drivers using the track edging to slow their cars down, and that was to fix 6in nails to the outer perimeter edge of the track

Probably not a sensible idea though

[DCM]

That is the joy of closed wheel racing, you can bash and not get penalised by having to be marshalled....

[SlowOne]

That's another good thought - we make our club track tight and twisty because the skilled drivers want a challenge. That same challenge proves difficult for the new driver learning their craft, so we tell them to go slower.

What would happen if we made the tracks easier? Then if the drivers were 'too fast' they would do less damage, but still find great lines and corner accuracy rewarded by better lap scores over the race distance.

It might make race night less challenging for the more experienced, but if the track is the same for everyone, the best drivers will still be faster. Perhaps a simpler track every other week would be beneficial to the new drivers? Just a thought...

Bottom line here; we are trying to overcome human nature. That, as a challenge, is like trying to solve world hunger. WE have to keep trying, but it is a moving target!

[Pacman]

I've raced in silver can racing at Hinckley. It worked on the touring cars to some degree, but was too slow for the off road cars during the summer. However in either you soon find out that there is no such thing as a level playing field, i.e. not all silver can motors are the same.

Personally I think when you are young, you just want to have the fastest car out their, regardless of whether you can drive it or not. It's only natural for a racer to want something fast otherwise we wouldn't race at all. And it only takes one person to get something faster for everyone to follow. At my local track most people now race TM2 or other similar 2wd buggies. Rather than spend more money I just take an old 4wd buggy along instead!

Also as many racers these days race at more than one club, then having equipment they can use at more than one club is import.

BUT, I still think there are ways to motivate people to race in a standard class or use cheaper slow equipment:

1. Before introducing a new stock class, see if you can get buy in from the fastest regular drivers. If you get them taking it up from the start, then the rest will follow.

2. Handicap racing: In pre-war racing at places like Brooklands, cars with less HP would be given a number of laps head start. The faster cars had to catch them up and pass to win the races. In RC cars you literally do this.

3. Points based system based on number of motor turns and current limit of the speedo. Bonus points are given to cars with lower standard equipment, and work out the winner at the end of the meeting. Effectively this is what is going to be done at the Iconic A1 revival meeting where cars using period equipment will get bonus points.

[Lee24h]

Scott come to kettering mcc one friday we run 13.5t turbo or slower and its not banger racing its quite a small track and we run 10th tourers
No matter what class you run theres always going to be someone who needs to be 'faster' than everyone else
With regards to the 27t days people zapped cans, turned the comm down, turned the can round and ran new brushes every meeting
A standard out the packet motor wasnt particuly quick
Scott a ref is a good idea but thats not club racing
Put all the bashers in their own heats they will learn
And the end of the day
We race jumped up very expensive toy cars on a big play mat!

[beale]

Hmm club cars with siver cans or similar everyone gets 5 laps or so to look at consistency, instead of 3-4 normal heats it's 1 pre lim with the Club car then 2 - 3 with your own ( point being if your quicker with an RTR silver can then your own is too fast or setup wrong)

[RoyBoy]

I have to say I think this is the best and most interesting thread I have ever read, well done guys, especially bedsrcmcc. Keep up the good work.

[bedsrcmcc]

Originally Posted by Lee24h

Scott come to kettering mcc one friday we run 13.5t turbo or slower and its not banger racing its quite a small track and we run 10th tourers

I used to race at Kettering, it was the Xray that got me back into RC racing once the family had grown up a bit

We started racing Touring Cars at Bromham when I setup that club and we raced 13.5 Brushless with Turbo/Boost on a polished floor with rally block tyres the control tyre. We used to have some great fun in those days and yes we had drivers of all standards...

The big issue I have, is not drivers who are learning their race craft, it's those who simply don't want to listen and think that crashing is fun

We've tried to make it clear as 'sensitively' as we can that if you want to go banger racing, there are clubs that cater for that. BEDSRCMCC is NOT one of those clubs.

Interestingly, we stopped racing TCs at our club as we saw a marked increase in the speed of them and people were crashing out too much, so I still stand by my initial thoughts that the tech has made a quantum leap forward in the past 2-3 years and to be fair, driving standards are a little behind those in some cases.

What's more interesting is that the BRCA had a real chance last month to help put in place rules that would help but it appears from what I heard on Friday that they've fudged the rules in GT12 without having the conviction to enforce a slower motor for the Production Cup

So that leaves clubs who want to try and slow things down out in the cold (this is just about GT12 racing, not off-road or Touring Cars). There were some interesting ideas put forward but it seems it failed to get past through. Seems the BRCA needs to rethink what the aim of the organisation is - is it about supporting the hobby of RC racing and nurturing new blood, or is it about supporting top flight RC racing... Maybe a topic for another thread one day

Going back to the issue of driver skill and tech for a moment, I had an epiphany this week...

All our attempts at trying to improve driver skill has always focussed on the negative - penalty points for bad driving, making people go slower, having a moan all the time bad driving, emails to try and get engagement on the topic etc etc.

But now my epiphany is that positive encouragement, ie the carrot rather than the stick' might be the way forward. So we are going to trial a system in the club's next Championship whereby all drivers have the opportunity of voting each week for the driver they felt drove the best (based upon their ability). That driver in question will be rewarded a sizeable amount of points that could see them move up the leader board very quickly. It will be interesting to see how the carrot works over the stick

[bedsrcmcc]

Originally Posted by RoyBoy

I have to say I think this is the best and most interesting thread I have ever read, well done guys, especially bedsrcmcc. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for the nod

I never claim to have all the answers, but I do enjoy a debate

Thanks too goes to all the contributors of this thread, as RoyBoy says, it's been really interesting to read what others think about this topic and I'm sure it's one that will be with us for many years to come and the the bain of anyone who runs/operates clubs...