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  #581  
Old 07-07-2015
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It won't make any difference on a 2wd 4wd revers bel crank slider rack Ackerman is Ackerman the further the link is back in the centre the less aggressive feel You will get the further forward the more aggressive feel especially around the mid corner of a corner.
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  #582  
Old 08-07-2015
timoxx4 timoxx4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan1875 View Post
Right lads, wanted to measure the ackermann so we could put this to rest for the YZ2 at least.

Here are the measurements for the wheel angles:

0mm washers - In 40 degrees, Out 29 degrees.
4mm washers - In 40 degrees, Out 24 degrees.

As you can see, 4mm has a bigger difference between the wheels, which is why it is less aggressive, as it has more ackermann.

Obviously the inside wheel doesn't change as this was on full lock.
What did you use to measure it ? I would like to have a go at that myself on other cars just to see whats what.
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  #583  
Old 08-07-2015
Allan1875 Allan1875 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu View Post
It's pretty simple moving the inside link closer to the rear of the car calms the steering feel Down
Adding 4mm washers on the Yz2 is moving it closer to the front of the car and this is what calms it down.

The angles don't lie.

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Originally Posted by discostu View Post
It won't make any difference on a 2wd 4wd revers bel crank slider rack Ackerman is Ackerman the further the link is back in the centre the less aggressive feel You will get the further forward the more aggressive feel especially around the mid corner of a corner.
We are going to have to disagree on this as per above.

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Originally Posted by timoxx4 View Post
What did you use to measure it ? I would like to have a go at that myself on other cars just to see whats what.
It was an extremely technical measurement. Stuck the car on an A4 piece of paper on full lock (make sure the car is square with the paper). Draw a line along the edge of the wheel to get the angle it is facing. Once you lift the car off, draw another line square with the paper to meet the line you have already drawn then measure your angle with a protractor.

Highly technical stuff, I know. Ha. Obviously my figures are not going to be exact but it gives you an idea of where you are at.
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Last edited by Allan1875; 08-07-2015 at 07:40 AM.
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  #584  
Old 08-07-2015
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It may not be hi-tec, but it's a great practical demonstration to explain the handling change that this adjustment has. Makes full sense.
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  #585  
Old 08-07-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan1875 View Post
Adding 4mm washers on the Yz2 is moving it closer to the front of the car and this is what calms it down.

The angles don't lie.



We are going to have to disagree on this as per above.



It was an extremely technical measurement. Stuck the car on an A4 piece of paper on full lock (make sure the car is square with the paper). Draw a line along the edge of the wheel to get the angle it is facing. Once you lift the car off, draw another line square with the paper to meet the line you have already drawn then measure your angle with a protractor.

Highly technical stuff, I know. Ha. Obviously my figures are not going to be exact but it gives you an idea of where you are at.
Sorry Allen

Your wrong your measurement maybe correct but how you understand what it does is incorrect

We may have to agree to disagree.
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  #586  
Old 08-07-2015
Allan1875 Allan1875 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu View Post
Sorry Allen

Your wrong your measurement maybe correct but how you understand what it does is incorrect

We may have to agree to disagree.
I'm definitely not wrong. Do you own a YZ2? If so, you take it on an astro track with 0mm, then with 4mm, and then tell me I am wrong.

Which part am I incorrect? More ackermann calms steering and makes a car easier to drive, less ackermann makes it unpredictable and gives aggressive steering.

On a YZ2, less washers (moving the link further back), makes it more aggresive and more washers (moving the link forward), calms it down. This has already been proved by me checking the angles, which proves your theory wrong that moving it back always calms the steering down.

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Originally Posted by discostu View Post
It won't make any difference on a 2wd 4wd revers bel crank slider rack Ackerman is Ackerman the further the link is back in the centre the less aggressive feel You will get the further forward the more aggressive feel especially around the mid corner of a corner.
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Last edited by Allan1875; 08-07-2015 at 02:31 PM.
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  #587  
Old 08-07-2015
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Stu, on our YZ2 more washers is more ackerman, hence its calms the steering, it does matter where the bell cranks pivot from as this determines whether the rack swings towards the front of the car (as per the yz2) or away (as per a 4wd that pivots the opposite way).

We can agree on what more or less ackerman does, but how its adjusted on different cars will differ.
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  #588  
Old 08-07-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichyUK View Post
Stu, on our YZ2 more washers is more ackerman, hence its calms the steering, it does matter where the bell cranks pivot from as this determines whether the rack swings towards the front of the car (as per the yz2) or away (as per a 4wd that pivots the opposite way).

We can agree on what more or less ackerman does, but how its adjusted on different cars will differ.
Answer me this then rich on the rb6 we turned the rack around to move the ball stud closer to the rear of the car to calm the steering down

The rb6 and the yz2 have the same style steering so why is it a different effect

I get what your saying depends on which way the rack swings from dies make a difference
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  #589  
Old 08-07-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu View Post
Answer me this then rich on the rb6 we turned the rack around to move the ball stud closer to the rear of the car to calm the steering down

The rb6 and the yz2 have the same style steering so why is it a different effect

I get what your saying depends on which way the rack swings from dies make a difference
I believe it's to do with the angle of the arms mate, so I suppose it depends where the RB6 rack is mounted in relation to the steering arms. This could make a difference with the angle of the links.

Just speculation from my part without seeing one. My mate has an RB6 so I will try and get a look at it.
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  #590  
Old 08-07-2015
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Just settle this argument with a dance off!
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  #591  
Old 08-07-2015
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A fight sounds better.
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  #592  
Old 08-07-2015
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Just looking at my yz2 and rb6 now and I'd say they differ because of the style of rack on each. The rack on the rb6 has the mounting points to cranks along its center line pretty much where as the yz2's rack to crank mounting point is quite offset in comparison. This means the ball stud on the yz2 rack is in line pretty much with the mounting to the cranks, but the rb6 ball stud is offset much more towards the front of the car in realation to the rack to crank mounting point.

Which should explain why it works different on the rb6 and actually shows it doesn't matter which way the cranks swing, it's just down to geometry of where ball studs are in relation to rack/crank mounting points
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  #593  
Old 08-07-2015
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  #594  
Old 08-07-2015
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I'll tell you what I'll keep doing what I think is correct as it hasn't failed me yet I may just be able to set a car up I maybe not

Rich we'll have a chat in Tuesday
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  #595  
Old 08-07-2015
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Stop being a bell haha

That just points out why there is a difference between those 2 cars, but you carry on taking spacers out to calm your yz2 steering Haha
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  #596  
Old 08-07-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu View Post
I'll tell you what I'll keep doing what I think is correct as it hasn't failed me yet I may just be able to set a car up I maybe not

Rich we'll have a chat in Tuesday
why all the hate?
Allan is spot on here and it works for me just as described. i originally thought less was more based on my setup with b4/centro/bmax2, but i drove the yz2 with 0mm to 4mm and tested for myself.
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  #597  
Old 08-07-2015
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The car is a strange beast period! Im still very green in set up, Allans tips have helped a ton on this chassis, advice given in the general rule of thumb, doesnt always work on this car!
No need to get bent out of shape, just differing knowledge and very differing car traits, all good fun, though in still keen getting my new TRF Vega out soon lol!

Lee
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  #598  
Old 09-07-2015
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Quote:
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Could you take a picture of the rb6 from above to show the angle of the links?
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  #599  
Old 09-07-2015
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Quote:
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Could you take a picture of the rb6 from above to show the angle of the links?
will do tonight, will show straight and full lock
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  #600  
Old 09-07-2015
timoxx4 timoxx4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan1875 View Post


It was an extremely technical measurement. Stuck the car on an A4 piece of paper on full lock (make sure the car is square with the paper). Draw a line along the edge of the wheel to get the angle it is facing. Once you lift the car off, draw another line square with the paper to meet the line you have already drawn then measure your angle with a protractor.

Highly technical stuff, I know. Ha. Obviously my figures are not going to be exact but it gives you an idea of where you are at.

I like it Will have to give that a go next time.
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