Draft GT12 Rules, Have your say

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Originally Posted by Mr Eccleston

Quick question, I think I know the answer, but just wondering if it could be confirmed officially quickly.

The brushless motor is going to be the 13.5, but is it safe to assume that will be with a blinky speedo.

from the proposal as presented at the 12th section EGM, April 2012

so looks like no Tekins, LRP/Nosram V2 etc

Brushless Speedo
Speedo control unit to be of the “Stock” / “Sportsman” / or “Spec Racing” type. By this it is implied that there is no availability of electronically adjusting the motor timing on the speedo. This includes static as well as on-the-fly dynamic timing. Suitable units include (but are not limited to) Nosram Matrix, LRP Sphere / SPX and AI models, HobbyWing Just Stock, Novak GTB2, SpeedPassion Citrix etc. Speedo may be sensored or sensorless.

[DCM]

Tekin on 223 can be locked into blinky to comply with this rule.

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Originally Posted by DCM

Tekin on 223 can be locked into blinky to comply with this rule.

I would say it probably won't be allowed as the Tekin is not a “Stock” / “Sportsman” / or “Spec Racing” esc

Brushless Speedo
Speedo control unit to be of the “Stock” / “Sportsman” / or “Spec Racing” type. By this it is implied that there is no availability of electronically adjusting the motor timing on the speedo. This includes static as well as on-the-fly dynamic timing. Suitable units include (but are not limited to) Nosram Matrix, LRP Sphere / SPX and AI models, HobbyWing Just Stock, Novak GTB2, SpeedPassion Citrix etc. Speedo may be sensored or sensorless

[Mr Eccleston]

So it is slightly different to what I thought. Blinky not allowed, but speedo with no timing capability available if that makes sense.

Also notice the Hobbywing example is only the justock, not extreme stock or 1s in blinky mode, again reinforces the no blinky option.

Could mean a few people buying speedo's as most people will have timing capable speedo's that they run blinky software on which are not allowed.

[DCM]

Not sure what the rule is trying to do, but it may stop cross platform racing, unless your willing to invest in an esc specific for the class. I know my local club, we have started running 'mardaves' and have left it to mardave size wheels and tyres and mardave size shells, as for us, it is a winter thing and we just want to have fun and not contrained by rules.

[Mr Eccleston]

Interesting, according to Tekin, the 223 firmware is referred to as "spec mode", now I guess it will need to be clarified who defines what is a "spec" speed controller.

Big Event "LockOut" Spec Mode, locks the ESC into Spec Mode and cannot be changed without plugging back into a HotWire. Factory Reset does NOT turn LockOut mode off. LockOut Spec mode indicated by led's 3, 4 and 5 flashing.

[DCM]

Well, if you are going to use such a rule, ROAD run a list of homologation esc's

[DCM]

http://www.roarracing.com/?page_id=737

[SlowOne]

See, here's the problem with the internet - people assuming that they know what they are talking about and everyone else believing them. Boy am I glad CFR wasn't elected PRO - lucky escape for the Section!!

This is what was proposed, and passed, at the EGM.

4 Definition of a Zero-timing Speed Controller
4.1 Speed controllers may not be equipped with any form of automatic or programmable timing advance. If this feature is available on the particular speed controller it must be disabled and placed in an approved mode - i.e. the "ROAR blinking LEDs mode." Brushless Speed Controllers built without automatic or programmable timing advance will be allowed. The BRCA 12th Committee will provide a list of eligible speed controllers. Details of the requirement for the approved mode are contained in Appendix 2 – Zero-Timing Brushless Speed Controllers – and this requirement must be met for a speed controller to be eligible for racing in relevant GT12 Classes.
4.2 When using a sensorless speed controller/brushless motor combination Rule 4.1 does not apply.
4.3 Brushed Speed controllers are without restriction providing that they include an operating reverse function and are available with a recommended retail price not exceeding £65.

4.3 is a carry over from a long-standing rule to keep costs down. With the availability of things like the HW Justock speedo (£40 and very good) and the TQ booster (£20) the BL side of things can easily dip under that price. The Appendix referred to is the strict 'scientific' definition of a no-timing speedo which is used by ROAR. The BRCA EB is currently developing the testing regime to that we can eventually have a BRCA list and not rely on the ROAR one.

The classes of racing for 2012/13 season call for use of speedos conforming to that Rule, so it is 'no-timing-on-the-fly' (NTOTF) for the GT12 Circuit class and you can use any speedo that can be locked in that mode as defined in the ROAR list. Note that means Tekins using 223 software, not 202 or 212, with three LEDs blinking in neutral.

Blinky speedos are allowed, and for the very reason that we do want cross-platorm racing. GT12 is not forsaking the lo-cost ideal that Wes Raynor started with all those years ago. Whilst Circuit Racing does not embrace the 'lowest-cost' regime so successfully used in Oval classes, we don't want people to have to spend a lot of money to go circuit racing with pan cars on foam tyres. We can't please all the people all the time, but it is hoped that we will please all the posters in the last few days - except CFR in this case!! - who want to use equipment they already have. Please come back with more questions, I'll help where I can. HTH

[DCM]

That sounds sensible.

[rcdunk]

just getting back into 12th curcit racing (last time I raced them it was nimh on the brushed silver can motor ) so am I right in reading
any speedo as long as it has a "BLINKY" setting ?
and 13.5t motor from the elec board list ? although I did read somewhere but ashamed to say dont know where that there is a 13.5t/1s motor list but I cannot find it anywhere

thanks for al the info makes good reading and great help in getting back into the class

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Originally Posted by rcdunk

any speedo as long as it has a "BLINKY" setting ?
and 13.5t motor from the elec board list ?

esc, looks like anything goes

13.5
http://www.brca.org/sites/default/fi...12D%20pdf1.pdf

[SlowOne]

Originally Posted by Chequered Flag Racing

looks like anything goes

13.5
http://www.brca.org/sites/default/fi...12D%20pdf1.pdf

Which bit of "The BRCA 12th Committee will provide a list of eligible speed controllers. Details of the requirement for the approved mode are contained in Appendix 2 – Zero-Timing Brushless Speed Controllers – and this requirement must be met for a speed controller to be eligible for racing in relevant GT12 Classes." is it that people don't understand??!!!

how can anything go when the Rules call for something that complies with a list of approved speedos??

Rcdunk - yes, the speedo must either be incapable of having timing programmed, or be on this list. If you have any queries, please PM me and I'll get them answered for you. HTH

It's good to see so many people giving the GT12 class a go. With the variety of cell and motor combos being talked about, I would be interested in some feedback about relative speeds, tyre wear, ease of driving, etc. As I said before, these Rules are a place to start not a final destination. Anything we know to help point to the future... helps point to the future!

[mark christopher]

pete hobby wing 1s ok?

[rcdunk]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

pete hobby wing 1s ok?

cool good to know that helps
next question is is there a uk importer for the hobbywing / ezrun stuff ? or a uk shop that sells them
I have seen them on e bay buy cannot do with the import duty crap and delay unless I have to lol

[SlowOne]

Mark, yes, the Hobbywing 120A 1S v2.1 is fine, it is on the list along with all the eligible HW speedos here. Make sure you load the right software so that the red LED (buried in the side of the speedo!) blinks at neutral - that's the one to have to comply with the 'blinky' rule. Got a feeling I'm teaching you to suck eggs now!!

RCDunk, there is a shop that will stock the HW stuff, I just can't remember what it's called!! I'll find out and post again.

I don't want to open old wounds (!) but the HW range of speedos is ideal for this class. I am going to try a Justock at around £40. However, you will need a booster. These work well and are well priced from AMC. On the HW speedos, set it up with a 2S cell by downloading the 'blinky' software. Make certain that you choose 'no protection' for the voltage cut-off (even unplug it all, plug it in again and check) and then re-set to your radio.

Now, remove the red wire from the receiver plug, and tape it back to the receiver lead so it is insulated. Plug in the booster (it is always on, no switch) and then use the speedo switch to turn the car on and off. Since you don't need to change the software, this works fine. If you want to use the program box, unplug the booster, replace the red wire in the receiver and then do as normal with a 2S cell plugged in. The same procedure applies if you are using a receiver pack. If the receiver pack or booster (e.g. RC Dynamics) has a switch, both switches must be on to run the car. My eternal thanks to Gavin Clinch for telling me how to do this - blatant ad for Gavgrafix shells alert!! - Gav sprays a mean shell...

I know it sounds like a faff, but anyone can do it with the standard booster. There is a better way of doing it (but you have to be able to modify the booster output wires and fit a switch) so that you can use the program box at any time. If someone wants to do that please ask and I'll tell you how. If people think there is a need for a simple solution, I am happy to make up harnesses that will fit the booster directly and plug into the existing system. Please ask; this 2S thing is a bit of a non-event in my opinion, it just needs people to know how to sort out the booster and you're running on 1S.

As always, any of the current LRP and HW speedos that work with a 1S cell will do the job without a booster or receiver pack. HTH

[stegger]

Originally Posted by rcdunk

cool good to know that helps
next question is is there a uk importer for the hobbywing / ezrun stuff ? or a uk shop that sells them
I have seen them on e bay buy cannot do with the import duty crap and delay unless I have to lol

Duncan, here's the shop.

http://www.giantcod.co.uk/index.php

[SlowOne]

This is the one I was thinking of...

http://shop.cpdracing.co.uk/

Chris and the team will be getting HW products soon, so keep an eye on their stock. These are car guys through and through, so you can get advice and back-up.

[Robocop]

I hope you are going to say yes to the following
That my bd v3 is going to be legal

[SlowOne]

If you had followed the link in post 36, you would have found it on the list - lazy toad!!

v2.1 or higher, profile 1, LED blinks blue. If yours does that you're in, if not, get out the plastic and buy another speedo!!