cost of electrics for new starter

[dougher]

HI, firstly, sorry for asking questions that's probably been asked a million times before...

1. Batteries, 25c competitive? One really enough?
2. Core 50 charger OK? Read some reliable issues on it. Alternatives?
3. How much to spend on ESC (BL)? Had recent advice that this is important to spend as much as possible
4. 8.5t BL motor been advised, any recommended motors specifically?

I'm a returning racer, but had nearly 15 years out! I'll be dragging out my losi xx kicking and screaming until it breaks, then go for 210 or sv2...

Any advice welcome :-)

Sam

[Si Coe]

25C isn't really enough - but C ratings are linked to capacity as well (a 20C 6000mAh pack can provide the same punch as a 40C 3000mAh pack) so the numbers themselves are meaningless.
You really want 5000mAh and 50C or more. It need not be expensive though - Turnigy Nanotechs are fine for club use and can be sourced from Hobbykings UK warehouse.
The Core charger is perfectly good. Its a popular model so if you've heard more about them breaking than others its just cos there are more out there. Its certainly no worse.
For a 2wd any 8.5t motor should provide plenty of performance for our track. Different people recommend different types but its more down to how they drive and personal preference really. I use 10.5t's myself and I've got motors from Nosram, Speed Passion, Team Wave, Novak, GM and Team Orion. They all drive differently, but with appropriate gearing all offer pretty much the same performance really.
A good ESC is certainly worth investing in - but it doesn't need to cost a fortune. A Speed Passion ESC at £85 does all you'll need for a 2wd at least.

[dougher]

Thanks Si, that's a great help. I can't believe how cheap those batteries are, pefect to get me going! Would you advise two packs?

Thanks again
Sam

[Cremegg]

Hi Si

Regarding gearing as I'm new too, I'm running a 13t motor at the moment and running a 21/74 gearing too, I had a few runs on Sunday just gone (I had the lrp twister) and few people advised me to go up to a 23T pinion? Would that get a bit more speed on the straight? And can I ask what punch control is too as mine is set 100%, is that the best setting?

Many thanks

[Si Coe]

I wasn't really watching your heat so didn't see how it went!

Anyway yes, the bigger pinion will mean more top speed. It comes at the cost of some acceleration through the infield though so its a balance.
If you'd seen my car in the heat (red Durango 210 running in heat 4) its somewhat slower than the others down the main straight but works better through the twisty stuff which is where I make up places. There is more infield than straight!

Punch control sets how hard the car can accelerate. In slippery conditions like yesterday morning it pays to turn it down to keep the car under control, but when grip is good you can turn it up to as high as the car can handle.

Starting off I'd suggest dropping the punch control down to something like 60% and not increasing the gearing. Drive a car that is slow but doesn't crash or spin out first, and then when thats sorted up the gearing and the punch step by step.

You lose more time crashed than with a slow car. The reason I prefer 10.5t motors over the 7.5 and 8.5t's most of the others use is that I can stay out of trouble better with them! The result is that my fastest laps are never that fast, but my overall time beats drivers technically much faster than me because I make less mistakes that way.

[tisher]

Originally Posted by dougher

HI, firstly, sorry for asking questions that's probably been asked a million times before...

1. Batteries, 25c competitive? One really enough?
2. Core 50 charger OK? Read some reliable issues on it. Alternatives?
3. How much to spend on ESC (BL)? Had recent advice that this is important to spend as much as possible
4. 8.5t BL motor been advised, any recommended motors specifically?

I'm a returning racer, but had nearly 15 years out! I'll be dragging out my losi xx kicking and screaming until it breaks, then go for 210 or sv2...

Any advice welcome :-)

Sam

I am still running 25c cells in my 2wd and still put it in the A final every time I run it
I would look for a 2nd hand esc lrp sxx tc spec are cheap now and you can buy upgrade kits to make them right up to date I just put one together for less than 60quid
I would invest your money in a 210 because no matter how good you used to be you will not be A final competitive unless you run a modern car
motor wise 7.5t to 8.5t for 2wd 6.5 to 5.5t for 4wd running 25c cells will take the punch out of a lower wind motor anyway I run a 6.5t in my b4 with out any issue

[Cremegg]

Originally Posted by Si Coe

I wasn't really watching your heat so didn't see how it went!

Anyway yes, the bigger pinion will mean more top speed. It comes at the cost of some acceleration through the infield though so its a balance.
If you'd seen my car in the heat (red Durango 210 running in heat 4) its somewhat slower than the others down the main straight but works better through the twisty stuff which is where I make up places. There is more infield than straight!

Punch control sets how hard the car can accelerate. In slippery conditions like yesterday morning it pays to turn it down to keep the car under control, but when grip is good you can turn it up to as high as the car can handle.

Starting off I'd suggest dropping the punch control down to something like 60% and not increasing the gearing. Drive a car that is slow but doesn't crash or spin out first, and then when thats sorted up the gearing and the punch step by step.

You lose more time crashed than with a slow car. The reason I prefer 10.5t motors over the 7.5 and 8.5t's most of the others use is that I can stay out of trouble better with them! The result is that my fastest laps are never that fast, but my overall time beats drivers technically much faster than me because I make less mistakes that way.

Hi Si, thanks for that advice

I was struggling getting up the ramp hill (after the long straight). Sometimes I made it and sometimes I didn't, more times I didn't haha

So if I lowered the punch control and had abit more acceleration, I guess I would be able to make that abit more often?

I was landing the ramp at the start ok too which I was surprised at

I've got the bug for it now some I'm definitely going to come again in February at Oldham.

Thanks again

[Si Coe]

The hop up is a pain if you don't have a lot of acceleration. Even the better drivers don't always get that bit right!

Bear in mind that sometime less is more. When it was damp, too much power actually makes the car accelerate less as the wheels just spin. Since the tyres you were using were far from ideal for the conditions (as were most peoples yesterday for that matter!) turning down the punch would have reduced wheelspin and helped acceleration. In the dry however turning down the punch will reduce acceleration.

In the end its all down to personal preference. Fiddle with the settings until you find something that works for you. Sometimes that might go against popular opinion but whatever makes you fastest........

[Howler]

Chris, your motor is not the thing stopping you getting up the table-top, you just need to carry a little more speed onto the take-off ramp. Its tempting to slow down, so you dont over-shoot the landing and go into the fence, but with more practice you'll get the hang of that, lots of people struggle with it at first.

Also, when you go up a pinion to gain more top speed, you put more strain on the ESC and your temperatures will go up, so you need to balance that against the gearing too.

For now i wouldnt worry about speed, you just need more track time to get used to it. You did really wel for your first race, but indoor holds new challenges with the slippery floor sections, throttle control becomes very important.

[Gavin Collingwood]

I'd highly recommend you spend as much as you can afford on your speedo. The Orion R10 is truly superb and Orion have brilliant customer service and is very reliable. As for motor wind either 7.5 or 8.5 no quicker than 7.5 in 2WD though so depends on your experience coming back into it. As for a car after you xx I'd say it depends on your budget all the cars have pros and cons
Schumacher sv2 is fast but brittle and you need a lot of optional parts to get it quick
Losi 22 is strong as a tank but if it rains or you race on indoor slippy floor in winter the car becomes a right handful
Centro is a very fast car but is brittle and expensive and is a bit bodgy as its a conversion car.
Kyosho rb6 is a fantastic car that's tough and fast and has all the adjustability included with the kit without the need to buy a load of optional parts, but at £370 it's not cheap.
The Durango 210 requires you to have a PHD to build it's simply awful diff and has poor part quality and poor instruction manual but when you buy a load of optional extras the car is quick too

[Cremegg]

Cheers guys

Regards to the punch control? Is 100% less acceleration/power and 0% most accelleration/power? If I've got that right haha

After Sunday, I've ordered a load of spares (including drive pins and lock nuts and bits for the buggy itself) haha and I've took your idea on board Steve and fitted Velcro! So much easy and less fiddling now

A mate from work has give me a few pinions to experiment with too,

Regards to the esc heating up if I gear up, is that regarding to the motor working harder to push the car faster?

Thanks again

[budfish]

More important than all that is diff and thrust balls!

[Howler]

Originally Posted by Cremegg

Cheers guys

Regards to the punch control? Is 100% less acceleration/power and 0% most accelleration/power? If I've got that right haha

After Sunday, I've ordered a load of spares (including drive pins and lock nuts and bits for the buggy itself) haha and I've took your idea on board Steve and fitted Velcro! So much easy and less fiddling now

A mate from work has give me a few pinions to experiment with too,

Regards to the esc heating up if I gear up, is that regarding to the motor working harder to push the car faster?

Thanks again

No, 100% will be maximum punch and acceleration. Yep, the motor is asking for more power from the ESC to move the car up to the higher speed, at some point, the ESC wont be able to cope and will begin to get too hot. This is one of the most common ways to destroy an ESC.

[Col]

Originally Posted by Cremegg

Regards to the punch control? Is 100% less acceleration/power and 0% most accelleration/power? If I've got that right haha

Wrong way round... 100% is always more than 0%

edit: Beaten by the Howler

[Cremegg]

Originally Posted by Howler

No, 100% will be maximum punch and acceleration. Yep, the motor is asking for more power from the ESC to move the car up to the higher speed, at some point, the ESC wont be able to cope and will begin to get too hot. This is one of the most common ways to destroy an ESC.

Ok got it,

Checking the punch control now on the programming card, it's set at 60%,

So to confirm what you said, 100% gives more torque/accelleration/wheelspin (could make the car wheelie?) and 0% gives you the lowest amount...bit like traction control I guess....with 100% being no traction control and 0% being traction control (preventing wheelspin)

Cheers

Another thing this I've learnt tonight, thanks again

[Gavin Collingwood]

Punch won't make you wheelie. Having your slipper clutch too tight will make you wheelie.

[Chris Elworthy]

But having too much punch will make it necessary to loosen the slipper to stop it wheelying as more punch will make the front come up more on acceleration, in the same way less punch may allow you to run the slipper tighter.

In all honesty though, run the car with as little punch as you can as it makes the car far easier to drive, my lap times fell every time I dropped the punch level now I'm happy with punch level 3 of 10 in high grip and 2 in low. With the insane power of the Lipo's we need to use our punch controls as power regulators these days.


Chris

[Pitman Ed]

Cremegg,
The risk is you will get confused with all these differing views and recommendations. Take advice from someone who experienced and is delivering on the track when you are there. But generally:
Regarding ESC punch setting, read the instructions carefully. Manufacturers differ - 30% can mean 30% punch, or it can mean 30% limiting!
Batteries - I've found packs with a higher C rating to be more reliable over a longer period. When new, smaller C rating perform ok. By choice I'd say at least 50C at 4000mah.
Choice of 2wd car - choose something popular at the club. You'll get help with spares and set up.
Motor - a modern 8.5t is the best all rounder. You can quieten it down regarding punch, and you can wind it up on a long straight. It's pointless working hard to get past someone in the infield, only to have then fly past you on the straight!
Enjoy your racing.

[Cremegg]

Originally Posted by Chris Elworthy

But having too much punch will make it necessary to loosen the slipper to stop it wheelying as more punch will make the front come up more on acceleration, in the same way less punch may allow you to run the slipper tighter.

In all honesty though, run the car with as little punch as you can as it makes the car far easier to drive, my lap times fell every time I dropped the punch level now I'm happy with punch level 3 of 10 in high grip and 2 in low. With the insane power of the Lipo's we need to use our punch controls as power regulators these days.


Chris

hi chris

the setting on my esc for punch control is from 0% - 100%

checking the ESC that i have its showing that 0% is limited by battery ability and 100% very limited accelleration

so am i right thinking that 0% is full "snap" of battery power in one go and 100% a gradual increase of full battery power?

Thanks again guys

[Pitman Ed]

Yes that's correct. For your ESC 100% is lowest punch.