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  #41  
Old 09-04-2015
SlowOne SlowOne is offline
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Pre-built and set up so all you have to do is put in the electrics and race it. It saves you making the mistake of not setting the car up properly and having to come on to a forum and ask how to do it!! Only kidding!!

Glad you had a good run at West Kent, Stu. Sounds as though the car went well. Yes, GT12 is a simple and cheap class to run yet demands a lot of driving skill to go fast. Stick at it!

At the moment I think the Zen has it for handling and corner speed, but with everyone else coming round to the same suspension designs as the Zen, it won't be long before the class is even more competitive between cars and it becomes one where the best driver wins.

And for us mere mortals wanting to get some fun back into our racing, that has to be the best news ever!
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  #42  
Old 09-04-2015
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Without sheathing but with a nick!
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  #43  
Old 10-04-2015
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Hey Chaps

Had a great time at Maritime last night... The car is such a better drive now, and think with the change in wires it will be a winner for handling at least! (Driver still has much to bring to the table!!)

So... I went to 50's front and 40's rear, which made a huge difference, for the first time felt both rear and front grip balanced and had what other car look like, a very slight four wheel drift. Very rewarding.

The lower rear pod arrived today and the front end conversion which again has mixed reviews; especially after speaking with a few at Maritime lay night. I will see how it goes, always keen to see what these hop ups have on the car.

Interestingly, there was some discussion about motors last night, I felt my car has plenty plenty of top end, especially against others down the straight but this is obviously partly due to being in the donuts heat (much respect to my fellow donuts) - I have the Dynamite 13.5T which from reviews is a very top end heavy car, but a the few people who had all the bells and whistles last night seemed to have not heard of it and instantly said I would be using it at my peril, quote " it's a good motor if you want to be slow down the straight" my question is, are the Thunder Power motors that far in from of the rest? I looked at the KV rating and it points to low torque which I assume would be a good factor to get the most out of the gearing to maximize the speed and acceleration...

That's about all my notes from last night, hoping this thread doesn't bore, but it's quite a journey which I am loving.

Want to thank all those at Maritime that gave up their views and advice.

Stu
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  #44  
Old 10-04-2015
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this thread has actually been really useful for me as well, still relatively new to gt12 so there has been some cracking advice! keep it coming!
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  #45  
Old 10-04-2015
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Stu,

One thing I will suggest is don't change too many things on the car at once. If you change one thing between rounds and race meetings, you have a much better idea on how that change made your car feel different and you'll be better off in the future for it. If you change LOADS of things it's difficult to know what improved it.

Seeing as you have just purchased the low roll centre and the individual front end, I would recommend trying the new low roll centre first. You'll immediately see the difference and you'll have a much better understanding on how it effects the car.

THEN change to the individual front end. When you next put it on track, you'll know all the differences will just be that new front end assembly.

Real glad you're getting on better with the car by the way.
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  #46  
Old 10-04-2015
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Dan

I think you have advised very wisely there.. I have really resisted doing anything at last nights meet, the only thing I changed was the tyres... The tendency to tinker can sometimes, especially at my level interfere with getting used to a car and hence bring on my driving. That really had a great confidence boosting effect last night, as I felt I was getting better as the night went on, especially with the car handling better...

Heres the bad news... I have since fitted both front conversion and new rear pod, strippped out the old wires and fitted the new ones, and got a new shell as my old one was battered, but apart from that I have the same chassis hahaha...

In my mind, however the front conversion works out, it has to be better. In my mind, independent suspension is more affective, so I will endeavour to make it work. The lower rear pod, well, lover CofG has to also be a no brainer so my thought was upgrade upgrade upgrade and see how it goes... But I agree, one thing at a time..

Any thoughts on the motor controversy I mentioned anyone?

I think this is such a great forum and is continuing to be a great source of improvements.. In fact a chap came up to me at Maritime and said he been following the thread... If we can get as much info out there for newbies in one thread, it has to be a winning article from start to finish....



Best Wishes as ever

Stuart
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  #47  
Old 10-04-2015
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Would be great to have a GT12 section on oOple I think, I'll see if I can remember to bug Jimmy oOple to see if he's up for it SO many people race this class now, it would definitely be worth having its own section on here.

As for motors, you can be just as competitive with a cheaper 13.5 as you can a more expensive 13.5. Driving and set-up is what will give you good results, having the TOP gear is a very small percentage of that.

I run the Thunder Power 13.5t but previously I've ran the Turnigy Trackstar which is still a great motor. Changing the motor to a different brand won't be like night and day, it's still a 13.5 at the end of it. I could beat people when I was running my £20 Turnigy Trackstar that were running the £120 Trinity D3 Certified so I think that just about sums that up.

If you start doing bigger events, nationals and racing some of the quickest guys in the country then yes maybe it's worth investing so you feel like you're getting every last bit out of the car.
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  #48  
Old 10-04-2015
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Thanks Dan...
I'm certainly not out for a new motor, I was interested in the General concessus on motor brands. I definitely see the importance of car setup and not speed, the straights are such small parts of races.

I'm very excited about the upgrades today and certainly will update the thread.

GT12 is so infectious, low cost and high thrills. I'm not on facebook so oOple hits the spot for me.

I my only issue is there is not enough places that are near me at least where you can practice; this would be useful.
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  #49  
Old 10-04-2015
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you can see what motors are popular by the top ten at nationals from the tecj charts, though they are all on facebook.
Re the rear end its not to lower the C of G but the roll centr of the rear pod, you may find you can run a softer front tyre even without glues side walls and have more steering and no grip roll, though this is very track dependent.

the front ifs is not allways better due to the caster change on each wheel varying under compression, hence why if more commonly used with the top brce or rollbar/brace, again pics on facebook. you think there is good info here, wait till you see the fb page!
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  #50  
Old 10-04-2015
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Glad to know everyone is getting something out of this thread. I'm not on Facebook either, so happy to help fellow avoiders of the CIA and MI5's surveillance!! (Did you know that Facebook and Google (and others like Apple) have to hand over all their records to the US Government every 10 days? That includes all your posts, e-mails, searches, etc.) Anyway...

Stu, I had a Dynamite motor and sold it to someone - worst decision I've made recently. Two new motors later it looks like I have 'replaced' it with one of the new Hirosaka motors from Zen. Stick with the Dynamite, it is a good motor.

You need to experiment with ratio and timing to sort out what works. For tight tracks less timing and a higher ratio will give you more lift out of the corners and for longer tracks try more timing and a lower ratio. You'll usually find a sweet spot that works almost everywhere, and then needs small tweaks for each track. Always check the lap times to see what the change has done; never rely on temperature as that only tells you how hot the motor is, not how fast!

As stated above, the motor is part of the way to get fast lap times, but it is a very small part. The biggest part is driving. Give your car to a top driver and I guarantee they will take two or three tenths off your best lap time by doing nothing with the car. The next biggest part is cells.

In 1S people tend to hang on to their cells for too long. If they don't puff they will go a about 80 to 100 races before they get tired. If they puff they're gone. I'm liking the VapexTech cells at the moment and at £40 they are a bargain - two packs and you're all set for a couple of season's racing!

Dan is right, try to change one thing at a time. However, in the case of the lower rear pivot and the front end, both together is fine. The lower rear pivot is a no-brainer and should never be slower than the original. It's just a case of swapping the front ends to see which you prefer. Again, it's not what you feel, it's what the clock says. Check your lap times every race.

You are looking for three things - the total time for the race, fastest lap and 'spread'. Obviously total time for the race is what gets results, so that is the most important. To see what affect your changes have check out the fastest lap and the 'spread'.

The fastest lap tells you what the car is capable of. The faster this is then the better chance you have of climbing the qualifying list. But it's the 'spread' that tells the biggest story...

'Spread' is the difference between your fastest lap and your average lap. The bigger the gap the more erratic your driving is, or the harder the car is to control. Look at the spread of the very best drivers and you will find it is around two to three tenths. Now look at yours. If it is closer to eight tenths then one of two things needs work.

Either your driving is erratic or your car is hard to control. If the car has a lot of front end it can be the case that your lap time is fast when you get it right, but slow when you don't. So, as you make changes, look at the spread. Some changes might reduce the fastest lap, but also reduce the spread so overall you get a better race time.

Use these three things to decide where your best changes lie. Driving better is the cheapest and bets way to improve. After almost 40 years driving RC cars I still haven't found that packet of talent on the shop shelf, so this isn't something you can buy through motors, cells, speedos, cars, etc. it is something you have to practice. As you change the car keep checking those three things and working out what makes that overall race time better than the rest.

I enjoy the fact that this box is labeled 'quick reply' - I hope the novel is worth it!
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  #51  
Old 10-04-2015
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SlowOne.. The novel was well worth it and once again thank you.

I am really glad you said that about the Dynamite motor... This chap was very bolshy (maybe my interpretation) about the Thunder Power motor, but I thought the Dyanamite has some tremendous top end.

Thats really useful about the big three. I did remember about the average and best time, of course basic maths tells you these need to be as close as possible for the top performance.

The timing and the gear ratios I had not thought about so much, i have only 70T spur and I can't remember what my pinion is but I will check. These ratios I have not played with, as I feel I have plenty of acceleration and loads of top end so I have left it.

The rear end as you say sounds great from all who have mentioned it; with mixed reviews of the front end. It feels like the best way forwards for me, but I will definitely do some keen testing. There is a great place I visited over in Essex, Rayleigh Racetrack that provides a great place to spend a day testing.

I have Orion 4200 1s which was recommend from a very nice chap who runs the GT12.org website, who also advised the Toro 1s esc which feel like they have done me proud. I have two of these and seem to be going great guns at the moment. But I will maybe make an investment in the cells you mention, at least one, and see how they feel against mine.

Driving is definitely where I need to pick up.. I have noticed my throttle control has been much improved. Smooth tight turns hitting as close to apexes as I dare is certainly where I have my attention. I was a little full or nothing with the throttle which made for very erratic movement, trouble was the car was so quick and it freaked me out a bit, but my eyes and feels are coming back from the old days of buggy racing and I don't think it will be much longer before I get them all back.

Its funny, I go on half lap to 3/4 lap runs where it feels like the old days, smooth quick-ish and then I lose the feels but the more I pay attention to throttle control how smooth I can be use the most of the track I am sure it will come.

The car has up until yesterday handled like a dog, but there is definitely light at the end of the tunnel which is exciting; thanks to you and others here on oOple which i again am very grateful.

Shame I have to wait a week before I can get another meet under my belt!! Gives me time to tinker...
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  #52  
Old 11-04-2015
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Just to add (or maybe people already know this?) to this thread. I bought my supastox GT second hand and it came with a Aston Martin shell. I've been running this shell since I got the car and have been kind of competitive with the other newbies at the club.

Last night one of the other guys broke his car in the first round and so lent me his Mclaren shell for the rest of the night. My car came to life! It was like driving a different car. No other settings were changed just the shell. The car had much more turn in and was much easier to drive - so much so I knocked 0.5 seconds off my average lap time!!!

I know a lot of people will probably reply saying that the Mclaren or Ascari shells are the only way to go - but if this is turning into (which it seems to be) a newby bible - I thought it worth while to add my input

I'll be switching to a Protoform shell as soon as I get paid at the end of the month
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  #53  
Old 11-04-2015
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top guys seem to prefere the ascari over the McLaren,

PDW all the years I have told you about vapextech and just now you try them.......
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  #54  
Old 11-04-2015
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Martin, spot on - the aero on the cars is significant. Thanks for adding that to the debate. It is turning into a bit of a two-shell race with the Mac and the Ascari, but racing classes always end up with one or two bodies favoured.

The rules ask that you to make the shell look realistic, and there are plenty of GT team colour schemes to choose from. Despite those two shells it still looks like a field of GT cars. I particularly like the fact that the Mac comes with a full sticker sheet, so even when painted plain white they look very good all stickered up.

As Mark says, the choice is between the Ascari and the Mac for best aero performance. I like the Ascari but have never tried the Mac.

Mark - I worship at the altar of the Clinch where batteries are concerned. Gavin tries everything and when he says the VapexTech are currently the best, that's what I go and get! Last time Gavin recommended the Trinity cells and they were very good for over a season. Like I said before, I hung on to them for too long and lost a lot of performance. The new Vapex I have are very good which I why I recommended them. Maybe I should listen to you in future!

Standing by for Stu's next update...!
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Old 11-04-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowOne View Post
Martin, spot on - the aero on the cars is significant. Thanks for adding that to the debate. It is turning into a bit of a two-shell race with the Mac and the Ascari, but racing classes always end up with one or two bodies favoured.

The rules ask that you to make the shell look realistic, and there are plenty of GT team colour schemes to choose from. Despite those two shells it still looks like a field of GT cars. I particularly like the fact that the Mac comes with a full sticker sheet, so even when painted plain white they look very good all stickered up.

As Mark says, the choice is between the Ascari and the Mac for best aero performance. I like the Ascari but have never tried the Mac.

Mark - I worship at the altar of the Clinch where batteries are concerned. Gavin tries everything and when he says the VapexTech are currently the best, that's what I go and get! Last time Gavin recommended the Trinity cells and they were very good for over a season. Like I said before, I hung on to them for too long and lost a lot of performance. The new Vapex I have are very good which I why I recommended them. Maybe I should listen to you in future!

Standing by for Stu's next update...!

I spoke to gav about them at the gp, said he was trying them, I have run vapextech for 4 or 5 years now, never had one problem.
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  #56  
Old 11-04-2015
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oh and the ascari comes with decals if you buy from kamtec, or you can buy decal sets for all the bodies from simon mills ( millzy graphics) also on facebook (amazing the info on the facebook page ;-) )


sample of the lotus ones


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  #57  
Old 11-04-2015
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Now, chaps... This is a very very interesting topic (body shells)
I started off with the preform, which I think is a very good looking shell, however; apart from wrecking two in short thrift, I thoghy mine looked very high as it sat on the chassis compared to many others...

I have just finisheda paint job on a Type F, I am not familiar with the Mac (feel free to explain) and it sits much lower on the chassis, and makes it so so much easier to fit properly compared to the Proform. No holes which makes lining, for me anyway, a difficulty!

I am really looking forward to seeing how differen, after reading the post about the chap who had great gains from the borrowed shell.

You have sold it to me, I will invest in a new 1s too and will see how that will improve matters too!!

I will post a pic of my new shell tomorrow; ooooh, I forgot to say. I had a tip at Maritime from a chap who recommended a plastic circle cutter to get the arches a little more trim than using scissors which will give a much better finish.

Great to see so many taking part and adding to this thread, us newbies love to hear these nuggets of info!!

Best wishes as ever
Stuart
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  #58  
Old 11-04-2015
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Hi Stu.
The Mac BTW is the Mclaren shell. I use crurved scissors to cut my wheel arches, have used a compass cutter but prefer my scissors take it slow and don't cut to the edge of the blades.

If you do get a rough edge just sand it down a bit to clean it up. Before attempting the wheel arches cut off all the flashing so your only trimming the base line of the shell and arches.

I also use magnetic body mounting guide (they sell them at Demon Racing) allows you to place the completed shell over the chassis then move it about till it's in the right place then mark with a sharpie and ream the holes.
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  #59  
Old 12-04-2015
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So I've ordered the Vapex 1s from Zen and the magnetic bodyshell alignment tool which I will obviously give my worthless feedback, :-) but as always appreciate the top tips!

So I have my next question...
I now have the lowered rear end conversion which obviously makes my battery strap redundant, what do all you guys do? The thought of forever faffing with tape is not an ideal prospect and I am confident you veterans of the GT12 world will have yet more words of wisdom on this subject...??

Next up, tyres... This chunking business is very unpleasant, not that I have done it toooo many times, it does seem those that true their tyres seem to have a point that new fat tyres can lead to a false economy, however I have no intention on buying a tyre truer that's for sure! Is superglue on the tyre rims the best plan of attack to reduce tyre chunking and the instability of new tyres? My OCD of clean and neat may have a problem with the flaky bits of superglue I suspect may occur after a few runs; happy to be told otherwise!!

That's it for now, off to the stables to watch the boss (Mrs C), trot around a field whilst I think of apexes and throttle control!

Happy Sunday all.
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Old 12-04-2015
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Tyre walls somebody at our club said about shoe goo on the side wall's as apposed to super glue.

On the point of shoe goo, a smear of shoe goo on the inside of the front bumper area and wheel arches makes the body shells last longer, plus it can be used to repair cracks in shells to make them last.

In our training years shells don't last long so the more you can do to prolong them whilst still crashing the better in my opinion.
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