Limit to the number of tyres you can use at Nationals
 

For me the single biggest expense in a season is new tyres, yet to compete against either the "richer" drivers or team drivers, I really need to spend even more.

I personally dont think this is fair and would quite like there to be a limit on the number of tyres you can use per meeting.

They do it in F1 where budgets are even higher, so why not in our sport where we do it as a hobby??

What are other peoples thoughts on this?

think this has been suggested many times in the past. It's a great idea to keep costs down, the only problem is how to police it. The meeting organisers already have their work cut out to keep the meetings going like clockwork.

They do it at TC nats and other TC meetings, and it's policed very well and easily. If anything new tyres in off road are easier to spot than on road. They just mark the tyre and wheel with a coloured paint or something when the car goes through scrutineering.

Got my vote too, like you say it can't be hard to mark the tyre with something.

When I used to scrutineer tc cars we used to mark the wheels with permanent ink, say green for the first setof tyres and put a mark by the drivers name on a heat sheet. When the car came in after each race to be checked over if the wheels had no mark then we would dab them with another colour and mark the drivers name with 2 ticks to say he had used his allowance. If that car came in again with no mark then it would be disqualified.

Wayne....

Problems with number of tyres allowed - Some tracks have high wear rate and this would make the class less appealing.
What happens to drivers who make the A finals.... you are still looking at quite a few pairs..

Benefits - Makes the racing more interesting from an outsider point of view.
Keeps cost down slightly.

But......

How about 1 nominated tyre/compound ???

As Craig knows we did this at Silverstone for our weekender and it was good when the rain came down and we were all using our skills to get round as quick as possible.
Easy to police...
Keeps cost down as you don't need various compounds etc...

Just ideas but i like your thinking, but sadly this is not a cheap hobby and if you want to reach the top you need to spend a bit to get there first.

Like said, you need people to police it.
Do you REALLY need enough tyres for a new set every run/every two runs though? 4wd at stotfold i ran the same set of tyres all day, they had done 20 minutes running round rhr before hand aswell.
Id say dont over complicate the system!

P.S you got my shock tower mount you were replacing at stotfold wayne? :confused:

Agreed!! The people who are at the top of the game now have all payed for stuff at some point to get to where they are now!

The only national this year that I felt "needed" lots of tyres was Oz, but I'd be in favour of 1 nominated tyre, 6 tyres per meeting and then another 4 for A finals...

Allow the A finalists ONLY to use 1 extra set for the finals, When they use it would be up to them, could make the strategy more interesting.

Not all of us have plenty on money to splash, why should this stop people like us from being on the same playing field as the top drivers? If anything this could drive some people away from racing, as they are never going to be able to run the same amount of new tyres as the faster/richer guys.

I've only used 4 sets of tyres all this year, because of low funds. But my god, on some tracks when I put one of the new sets on it made a hell of a difference and moved me up the tables.
It would be nice to have the chance to do this every meeting, but not everyone can do it. So like I said, why should this put the poorer of us at a disadvantage?

I voted for it. I think it would be a good idea.

I personally dont think the 1 tyre compound rule would make too much of a difference. When its dry, its yellows; When its wet its greens. Also, becasue we only run greens in the wet, tyre wear is normally pretty minimal so you can use them at another meeting with no drop in performance, making it the dry weather yellows the issue and where the costs stems

To your point about tyre wear being worse at some tracks more than others, yes I appreicate this will be the case, but 2 sets per national should easliy be enough and should actually make for some better racing.

Also, as a "reward" for making the A, then maybe allow a 3rd set for the A finalists?

And to your last point about this not being a cheap hobby, this is precisely why I've proposed this. It already costs a heck of a lot to compete and Im just thinking of ways to reduce costs so the sport can appeal to more and more people.

PS Craig said the Silverstone weekned was awesome, wish I could have made it

Wayne.. i dont have a scenario for your poll. Money is an object to me, i pay just a little less than full price for all my tyres and other racing gear.

Why exclude people who cant afford to spend fortunes in the first place to get to the top?

I do mate, just havent seen you around

Thats just my tint/humour on the response. In terms of the results I'm taking the "No" response to mean simply that

I don't see how it can be a bad thing. Let's be honest, the same guys will be in the A, the B etc, but we all spend a little less money getting there!?

Not excluding anyone? Im in the same boat, theres no way i could afford to put a new set of tyres on every run of each national! But i make do with what i have.

If you want it to be a rule next year, you'll have to propose it to the BRCA...

Exactly, so why not try and create a situation that promotes a level playing field, where you dont necessarily have to "make do" with what you have because everyone is in the same boat

I assume he means to do just that if he thinks it's widely supported?

Basically it's the national series and if you can't afford the running costs then you should stick to regional or even club racing.

Personally I ran every round of the series and I thought it was the cheapest year on tyres by far, I only used a couple of sets of tyres at RHR and the other astro tracks. The most expensive national was Oswestry and I only used two sets of tyres for each class.

Surely you wouldn't travel up and down the country to race a two day meeting and not put a set of new tyres on at the start of the day?. That in itself means if you run 2 and 4wd you are going to use 12 complete sets for the series at best !!!!!

As I said, it's not expensive for a national series, it's as expensive or cheap as you allow it.

On top of this, every yellow or green minispike that I used in a national heat I used again at regionals/club meets afterwards so that makes it even cheaper :thumbsup:

That at the end is true actually, Ialways reuse my tyres for regionals!!

Limiting tyre choice by either compound or number actually restricts the lower-order drivers more than the top guys. Limited numbers means that you will always be at a disadvantage on those tracks where worn tyres give less performance - lower-order drivers find themselves less able to control the car and the fun factor disappears. Limiting compound has the same effect - if you're not hot on the set-ups, or can't control a car well, then driving becomes a chore, not a joy.

Level playing field - no such thing. In the last 35 years, it's been tried so many times, but it has never worked. Many of today's top drivers learnt their trade when there were no limits on tyres, and they had to pay for their huge box of tyres before their skill attracted the sponsorship they have today.

No one is denying that cost needs to be controlled as best it can in order that more people can stay in, or join, our sport. Nonetheless, other classes look down with envy at the low costs of Off-Road compared to the On-Road classes. I wish you luck, but I don't think you will find that limiting the number of tyres used will make more than a passing difference to the cost of your class, but it might well have a huge impact on the fun people get from driving their cars when they can't have the best tyres for the meeting, and have to drive a poor-handling car around for heat after heat. :)

you could argue that if that is the case then maybe they aren't ready for nationals and should practice at regionals more

I may be odd in being the opposite:

New tyres = bit quicker, fall over a lot due to grip roll

Old tyres = slower, but lovely lovely slides!!:thumbsup:

You are EXACTLY right :thumbsup:
In off road we are actually running for far cheaper than we were years back ........... i'm older than most but i'm sure most of you can remember having 5 packs of cells costing £60 a pack, five or six different motors that needed brushes constantly and skimming, which meant either buying a lathe or paying to have them skimmed, chargers that cost the earth, discharge boards. All this and the cells only lasted a couple of months and NOBODY could buy anything like the cells that the top guys had.

We now have brushless motors (my 5.5 has never been out of the 4wd since I bought it over a year ago), lipo's (I used one for almost all of the season before buying two more off Brian Preddy second hand), my chargers cost £20 each from Hong Kong delivered to my door in four days.

Compared to a few years ago it's like racing for free, i'm all for saving money but if we're talking national level there are always going to be higher costs involved. :)

hmmm interesting topic. I am not in a position either financially and family wise to even contamplate doing the national series, but when looked at, you have to consider at least one full set per chassis, per meeting, if you are feeling particularly competitive, then you are talking another set or two, and on both days, that racks up to a lot of money.

I guess some will look at this as an unfair playing field, biasing the sponsored and the cheque book warrior. But I guess it is a national, and you have to take into consideration that tyres play an integral part in your cars performance.

I don't think a decent argument against it is the 'policing' argument, you all have your motors checked for legality, cells to, and voltage.... What you got to work out, would it make the National series more competitive and fun or less competitive and fun?

I am not realy in much of a place to talk as I haven't raced at national level but will be sure to enter next year I however am sponsored so that makes the cars and electrics cheep for me. I can understand the argument here but don't think policing the tyres is the answer as you will then be left with no choice but to run new at all the nationals sometimes running worn like 4WD fronts at rhr is a good thing as new tyres then cutting them to bits is wrong and surely costing more money? Sorry for any mistakes in that the Ipad on a bumpy train isn't easy

Being unbiased, having done nationals and not wishing to do them at the moment due to finance, I think this is an interesting topic!

When I raced at the nationals for a few seasons I always booted up my cars with new tyres, minimal one set per car, then id change to a new set again half way through the day, doing this and managing D-E finals and the odd C I never found to be absolutely needing a set a run, or more than my average two per day (which would be reused).

The nationals is the pinacle of our hobby in our country, next being Euros and the Worlds, if people find the need to spend more money, let them do it!
If team drivers are getting discounts, or even free tyres then good on them, theyre there for a reason! Alot of team drivers actually spend MORE being sponsored than they would doing it solo as they need to have the current gear at all times, represent their company to a high standard and flaunt the products however they can, towels, logos, t-shirts, hoodies etc etc!
I've definately found myself spending less returning and doing it on my own without having to get the latest gear and represent! Now i'm not saying i'd not like to be back in that position, but you make it what you want to!

However if your competeing in the national series, I think it's only fair to expect to spend a little more if needed (bearing in mind no one is twisting your arm to do it here).
If you want to be top dog, you better go out and go for it, if your spending more money and getting no where quick, I'd say stick to regionals for a while, tune your skills, and come back for another bash.

From when I started in 2000, needing 4-6 packs of cells, a variety of motors all needing skiming, brushes, and the normal costs of tyres and spares, i'm enjoying not having to spend that sort of money each season, whereas now I can use my cells, esc + motor for many seasons if I choose to.
We all want to spend less and less money, why not? its natural to look to save a couple quid when we can! But there comes a point when everyone realises its a hobby, money is to be spent, how much depends on how much you want to!
If we limit the tyres, save a couple quid, we'l end up looking to to lock out development on our esc's and motors to save more money..

At the end of the day, you spend what you can allow for and no further!

Just my 2 pence!

Restricting the amount of tires that can be used at Nationals has been done before. When I started doing the Nationals around 1994 (yes it has been that long) you used to have to go to scruteenering before the event started with your 2 or 3 sets (can't remember) and get them marked up, nail polish was used where the wheel and tyre met.

May be best speaking to one of the BRCA officials that have ben involved for 10 years or so to see if they know why this was stopped

Jonesy is right.....

They did do this, but it wasn't as straight forward i believe ???

I think the rule was.... you select 3 tyres for the meeting and they are what you run for that national.
This was stopped i believe as some people had tyres that weren't available to everyone ( hence the rule commercially available)..... see, all these rules come from years of improving our sport!!

Andy I think you find it was two sets with an extra set if you made the “A” final.
These were made up of any make and any compound ( so you had to carry loads of tyres,)
Which made it more expensive than it is today

So you're saying that if you're a bit short on cash then you shouldn't even think about doing nats?:thumbdown:
Thats a great attitude to have.

Just because people are less 'well off' than others doesn't mean that they shouldn't be able to participate in nats.

Except that most club racers are quite used to running tyres until they are almost bald!
Lets be clear about this - a set of yellow minispikes after a full meeting are still very grippy and have lost very little control - they are just slightly slower than brand new ones.

Indeed that is the wrong way of thinking, however hopefully he didnt mean it to sound as bad!

The way I see it is if your pretty stuck on cash you can still do the nationals and pull the cat out the bag, but to get right up 'there' you do need abit of wonga, or a sponsorship, without a doubt!

FACT - There is an economic recession on.

FACT - More people put entries into the National series in 2010 than any other year, see PW for actual stats.

Go figure?????

Wow, you are serious about facts Rafa :thumbsup: actually, with a goaty I reckon it'd be a good impression:woot:

I dont do nationals but hopefully will do if i ever feel im good enough to take part. I dont really see the point in this thread TBH. Surely the biggest cost in doing nationals is petrol getting to and from the venues, and hotel accommodation / food and drink, while you are away. The cost of an extra set of rubber on this is surely negligable when you take this into account.
If you can afford to get to these meetings, you can afford another set of tyres

Hardly, unless you say in 5 star accommodation wherever you go??

Cutting out £30 on a race weekened (extra set of tyres for sat and sun) is a nice saving in my eyes

The scruitineers at meeting have enough to do checking weight, battery and motor legality and lipo voltage nevermind tyre usage silly sugestion imo

Good point ash!
Sometimes i feel im being rushed at the best of times through scruitineering! The last thing the scruitineers want to be doing in the 5 minute slot is to be checking/marking/labeling 20 pairs of tyres!!!

It aint gonna work i dont think