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#241
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Spurs!
Stu, some are using 64T as I am, the thin ZENG001 by RW Racing.
If you look at a roll-out charts for spur gears at 2t intervals you will see only a small difference in the actual gearing between corresponding ratios. i.e for a 44mm rear tyre 35/70 gives 69.1 mm/rev, 34/68 is 69.1 mm/rev, 33/66 is 69.1 mm/rev and 32/64 is also 69.1 mm/rev! No difference in this particular case until you start adding decimal places. Who came up with using 2T difference I wonder but does it matter with the current brushless motors being quite tolerant to gearing. Smaller gears have less inertia and the spur is further from the carpet, splitting hairs maybe but in the world of Zen, "the aggregation of marginal gains"! Also by changing spurs you can utilise a smaller range of pinions. Whether there are any frictional gains or losses I do not hasten to add! |
#242
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I'm also running a 64t on my Supastox GT.
My reason for this was just to get a bit of weight further back. The set-up in my car has a little bit more forward weight so I fitted the 64t to move the heaviest part of the car back ever so slightly.
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Schumacher • Phat Bodies Mendip R/C Raceway - Offroad Racing in South-West WORM-Racing - GT12 Racing in the South-West |
#243
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Jeepers... Thanks guys, a really good bit of insight from two fellas that clearly know their stuff... It sounds all a little too detailed for the level I am at right now, so i will continue with the 70T right now..
Ive just got some new Lipo's waiting at home for me, 6400 90C compared to my lest set of lips at 4200 45C, so i am expecting quite a bit of difference?! I have been reading about the whole current pulls of the various motor, esc and lipo configurations which I have found very interesting, untilI get to the Thunder Power motor I have, and I can't seem to find how many amps it pulls. With my lipo and esc (Toro 1s 120A) I am covered, but would still be very interesting to know. I hadn't appreciated how little my current lipo at (4500 45C) was falling some way short of my Esc's potential burst current, as long as I understand all this right... I assume all you regular experienced guys know the ratios of how tees elctrics pull etc? Of course the gearing and load placed on the motor has to be taken into account, if anyone knows of any good websites that cover all this, would be very interested. I have a desire to understand the mechanics, not just being told, "do this" as I have mentioned earlier in this thread.. Sorry, waffling on,,, but all interesting stuff thats for sure. Best Wishes Stu |
#244
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Quote:
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Xray XB4 21 |
#245
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Quote:
what I can tell you is you will struggle to reach your speedo and lipos max outputs on 13.5 blinky
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MBModels - Schumacher Racing - Vapextech.co.uk - MRT - Savox - SMD Last edited by mark christopher; 28-05-2015 at 07:06 PM. |
#246
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Hi Mark
Thanks for the info - and as I thought really; certainly regarding initial loading of any electrical current based system uses most current at highest loads and less when in motion... Although what I would say about being unlikely to max out lipo or esc currents; Calculations say that a 4200 45C Lipo wouldn't get anywhere close to what the Esc and motor would want to draw, therefore a Lipo is more influential as I understand it as anything in this chain. What do you use Mark to measure currents etc? would be keen to get this measuring tool. Load ratios for gearing relative to weight as well be very interesting to see, if anyone has done research on this I would be keen to see. Is there any tool that like telemetry I suppose, can measure what a car has been through during a run? I have seen since that Sanwa a telemetry system, sounds pricey tho. Was hoping there was a plug in to the receiver that could at least give info on a motor etc. obviously not that simply. Anyhow, look forward to hearing everyone's input on this topic. Last edited by stucartwright; 29-05-2015 at 06:59 AM. |
#247
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Too much thought?
Hi Stu, you worry far too much you know, a GT12 is not going to trouble your lipos or esc on a 13.5T TP motor.
Now if your were considering 1/12 LMP racing using 3.5T motors then things do get more interesting but even then these cars weigh so little, take it to the next step of 4wd touring cars on 3.5T, then current flow and battery/esc demands become a consideration. The step beyond is a 1/5th 4wd car using a 910Kv motor on 33 volts through a 200-1000A esc, serious current demands but I digress from topic, oops! The upshot is that a well setup GT12 with reasonable equipment will provide lots of competitive fun, the rest is down to the driver/mechanic! |
#248
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I use the sky rc motor tester, but as above. You are over analizing, you would learn far more from track time and test in reality
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MBModels - Schumacher Racing - Vapextech.co.uk - MRT - Savox - SMD |
#249
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Thanks Mark
I will invest, is that the same as the prog box? Not worrying chaps, just interested in the Lipo, Motor and Esc mechanics of voltage currents. I understand tests gets, but mindlessly swapping pinion and timing etc. if there is a clear understanding on my part it has to help reduce the denominations. Just how my mind works. Appreciate the"keep it simple" approach tho fellas. Back to West Kent club on Sunday so I'm looking forward to getting back at it after a longggg break due to work travels and holidays! 😎 |
#250
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Well...
Tried the new Lipo's tonight, jeepers creepers... What a difference. The pace is mental, so I am looking forward to striking every apex of every corner, or alternatively, coming back with my car in a carrier bag.. Either way, I'm excited to get back to West Kent and give the lady a run out.. Bring it on, will report back tomorrow night, with no doubt more questions than answers!! Have fun all those racing tomorrow. Best Wishes Stu! |
#251
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Glad you like the unltimates Stu, bang per buck you cant do better i recon.
Just make sure you dont push the 4mm to 5mm adapters thro to far as they will short out on the chassis (put some insulating tape on the side of the chassis) , either that or change to some 5mm connectors.
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#252
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Thanks Sam, over the moon with the new lip's quite honestly.. Raced at WKRCC and I know it was a very quiet meeting and there was only one final, but the standard of racers there was pretty good, with one or two stand outs which I certainly competed with at times, my car was the best its ever been...
I have created a YouTube channel, looking to post a few drives up there as time goes on, for my interest as much as any newbie to racing.. So after all this talk, I thought I would show you how I drive, and I am sure you guys can give me some heads up on my driving.. haha.. https://youtu.be/mIO2Y0dNCgo Too many clips of apexes and a few altercations with cars, but I loved every second and thats what its all about.. I have a really cool story to tell from today too, which I am going to add to the thread "How to help new people get started...." which is currently running on oople too, so watch out for that.. On the speed front, there was comfortably no car quicker than mine down the straight which has made me very happy.. Now time to get more into the set up and cutting out those little errors that stop me from improving my times.. Stu, over and out! |
#253
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So it's been a few days since updating on here...
Popped over to Braknell Radio Car Coub Monday evening, what a great little club that is. Only a small track, but the guys are super welcoming and offer some really competitive fun. Always 8 or more GT12 drivers. I managed to qualify for my first A Final, and I have to say. It's truly the first time where fettling with my car actually provided a serious improvement to the cats performance. With lap times getting better, and I even had a few laps leading the A Final before the euphoria took over and I got passed! Since then, I have got spending, and upgraded my spur, stuck with the 70T but an RW one. Upgraded the balls, associated grease along with a 15K damper oil for what I'm hoping, a bit less chassis roll. The decision to get the superstox over the zen is now becoming clear. Really enjoying the hop ups and all the various tweeks available with this car and it's providing so much fun and competitive racing. The body roll aspect seems to be a slight issue at the moment, the car does feel a little like a high sided Luton can at times (I don't like to exaggerate) which I think loses my ability to get enough speed through corners. I watched the video quite a few times I posted, and you can see my car looks far more lateral roll compared to those passing me. Before you say, it's because they a cornering better, but I believe that's a cause and affect scenario not the other way around... We'll see!! Anyhow, that's where I'm at, will keep on trucking! |
#254
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These things roll, end of! Don't worry what it looks like Stu, worry what the clock says. It sounds although you were doing OK (brain fade in the A excepted! ) so focus on that.
If you are running the set-up in the instruction book stick with it. A pan car needs to be softer on high grip and harder on low grip, so don't get distracted by other thoughts or opinions. Yes to trying the harder syrup and trying to damp the car in roll, but no to harder springs. Yes to softer tyres front and rear but no to more additive - get the idea? It's really good to know that there are a lot of clubs out there running GT12. I knew it was popular, but when you find a club with a small track getting eight GT12 drivers on a race night, it's testament to the appeal of the class. |
#255
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Yet again SlowOne, really appreciate the tips with the springs, tyre additive. I definitely found that one out on Monday and great to hear you back it up with your super experience.
I fitted the new diff, upgraded balls, RW spur and pinion. Simply can not believe how much better the mesh is and how smooth it feels compared to the kit spur and pinion I got. It's unbelievable. Had a servo saver tweek too, had the screw not done up tight enough, giving me slackness (no word any man likes to hear), so the steering should benefit from that!! Ahh this is a great hobby. Jeez So I got a new shell, sprayed her up tonight, still have the wing to do. Went a little adventurous and I think I didn't do bad! So I've posted a pic. Have a great weekend folks, happy racing!! I'm off to Wales, will drop into Tracksidespares for some fun |
#256
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Pic 2
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#257
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Pic 3
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#258
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I've now entered the world of Micro
Almost finished... Can't wait to see these two run!! The mods on the GT12 are very exciting... The Carisma is my extra time with the a controller in my hand, and a car to throw in the boot for a quick buzz about! |
#259
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This is a great thread Stu, I've read through from start to finish and being totally new to GT12 has been very good for me.
One point I haven't seen or equally could have missed is tyre truers. I would love some advice on this aspect. I'm racing at the Chichester club (1st meeting last weekend for me) and clearly this is an important area of the car. Theres so many little questions and then follow on questions. Like what diameter should we be looking for as a max and min. How quickly do they wear down from that. Taking mm's off a stock tyre reduces ride height, so dialing that back in easily. What does all the shore stuff mean etc. Thanks again though Stu!! |
#260
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GT12 tyres
Mmm a list to contend with there but I can try and add some light that I hope concurs with the thoughts of others.
First and probably a good starting point in Shore hardness, this is the measured hardness of the raw sheet material from which the tyre rings are cut, the lower the Shore number the softer the rubber compound. The tyre hardness will vary from the outside to inside as the rubber is stretched onto the wheel, the bigger the starting diameter the softer the tyre will be but attempting to measure a actual tyre hardness is not a true Shore measurement but can only really indicate a difference from one tyre to another, not the actual true Shore value but an indicator only. As the tyre wears or is trued down the actual hardness will increase slightly because of the pre-stretch onto the rim. I believe it is commonly considered that the smaller the tyres the better the cars handle mainly due to the lowering of the roll centre of the car, there may be more debate on the actual physics of this to follow. I am led to believe that starting at 44-45 mm for the rear and 1-1.5 mm smaller on the front will deliver a good handling car and give some degree of tyre life, assuming you don't 'chunk' them on the barriers in the meantime! The softer tyres can chunk very easily unless some reinforcement of the tyre edge is carried out, some use superglue, some use Shoo Goo or an equivalent. I have also found that as supplied the tyres are not always very true, I have had some up to 1 mm eccentric, so a truer is needed initially as this plays havoc with the cars handling. When it comes to tyre wear then this depends of a lot of factors, circuit layout i.e. sharp corners or sweeping curves, driving style, aggressive or smooth, repeated application of additive rather than changing tyres for each heat as some do. The actual rubber compound being used will deliver differing wear rates irrespective of the original shore hardness too. I have measured tyres to try and establish wear rates and I have seen somewhere between 0.2-0.5 mm per heat, depending on the tyre hardness being used, the carpet type, condition and grip level, surprisingly the higher rates were measure when racing without additive on 32 Shore tyres though! As for tyre truers, there are a number on the market, sometimes hard to get hold of but Hudy, 3Racing, Integy, Fastrax to name just four and of course you will need suitable mandrels depending on the wheel type you are using. I hope this goes part way to answering your emerging questions. |
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