Marshalling duties

[blue_pinky]

Without seeing it first hand it's obviously hard to say, but I go with the "don't interfere with other peoples races and wait" theory.

And if I did accidentally interfere with another cars race, maybe I'd try and shift my attention to putting the interfered car back first before getting to the original crashed car.

Not crashing is obviously the fastest way around, as winning races is not about having the best marshalling. Although we all appreciate good marshalling as well when we do crash!

And as Pops pointed out, the eagerness to help is often hard to control, your still a racer when your marshalling and for the most part people do try their best to assist the drivers who've crashed, especially at bigger meetings where there is a little more at stake, and there is 'generally' a lot of respect for the faster guys that are inevitably in the race after you.

But you only get a split second to make a decision, that decision will be based on many factors, one of which is experience...

...I bet that particular marshall makes a different call the next time he's in the situation, and as long as someone points out those kinds of errors to the less experienced in a respectful way....then hopefully they/we can only learn from those moments.

We're all human after all, and I bet the top racers / marshalls get in wrong once in a while too!

[Nightshade]

I don't have much experience at this, as I've only just started.
Not really addressing the original question, but as for the part of interfering with the rest of the race, my thought is if you make the decision to step out and address the first car, finish that first and move on to the pile up around your foot.
The times I've marshalled we've had a tight track, so I try to cross the track and right the car in one go. I'd finish what I was doing, then turn to the poor sods car I just booted. It's maybe not the 'fairest' thing to do, but once I've committed to sorting a car I think it'd probably take more time to switch to the crash I've caused.
Difficult to please everyone, whether you decided to stay or go.

Still it can be daunting & stressful. I wonder if the marshal from the original post is on oOple.....
On a marginally off topic note, how many times do buggies with reverse catch you out ?

[Battle_axe]

If I marshal I try to marshal in order of crash so the first to crash is marshaled first then I see that as fair

[passy]

I don't have a copy to hand but does the BRCA handbook that we all receive every year have a marshaling code of conduct in it?

If it doesn't, then maybe one should be put together and then brought to the BRCAs attention?

Nobody is a trained marshal, something that appears common sense to a seasoned veteran may not be immediately obvious to the beginner. For example, one of my pet hates is when a car is on it's roof and the driver pins the throttle whilst wobbling the steering. After getting various tyre burns from these incidents I soon made my mind up that I wouldn't marshal any cars that are on throttle.

[joelwhite]

Marshal how you would want to be marshaled. Watch your corner not the race. Hands out of pockets, no phones,food or drink.

Also turn marshals are an absoulte luxury. Without them racing may be tougher.

[passy]

I remember at a Christmas fun meeting at Batley for one round we ran without marshals, if you crashed that was the end of your run. I think the FTD for the day was actually set in that round; however it was a harsh lesson for some.

In HK for touring car we don't have turn marshals, it's the job of your pit man to put you back on your wheels. It's a good incentive to not crash if you know it's probably going to cost you a lap.

[baD]

My views are:
There is no simple instruction to cover all possible incidents.

There are racing incidents, carless driving and complete take-outs for a start.

Main point - Marshalls should never interfere with other drivers (don't take that the wrong way)
or put themselves in danger.
It is always a split second decision - funny tho sometimes drivers with the quickest reaction times for driving can have poor reaction times for marshalling.

It is not always a case of marshalling cars in the order they crash, unless there are separate unconnected incidents.
If A is at fault colliding with B, then A should get away first. Not an easy decision always. If A collides with B and in so doing they take out C coming along behind, then the order to get away should be B, C, A. i.e If A causes a pile up, A should be last away.
If a marshal does cause an accident, before getting to the crash he was going for, then the cars he collided with get put back in their running order, if possible, before the original crashed car, he shouldn't have crashed.

Any marshal who doesn't put a car back facing the right way should lose his TQ.
Failing to spot an incident by 'daydreaming' should incur a time penalty on their best Q of the day, or on their Final time, or even their next meeting if penalising their Final is of no consequence.

[MatJohnson]

Originally Posted by baD

Failing to spot an incident by 'daydreaming' should incur a time penalty on their best Q of the day, or on their Final time, or even their next meeting if penalising their Final is of no consequence.

Nice idea, but you can't monitor it, whats to say the marshal doesn't come off saying "it wasn't safe"?

If its clear go marshal the car, if there are others coming wait, but at least make an attempt to get the car. But it does depend on what part of the track it is as well, no-one is going to step out into the middle of the straight with other cars around, but low speed corners you might get away with it.

[mikerobinson83]

at plymouth rc we run leecy and nitro together as it keeps the numbers up durring hard times such as these, and i have lost count of the amount of time a marshall has come running back to the pits with a car only to find out its leccy, this is frustrating to say the least.

we also have the saftey first policy because our chairman got ahead of himself once went out to marshall a car on the triple only to by greeted by a hyper 9e to the temple,he was ok not even a cut, but we have a laugh about it at every drivers meeting now.

it get frustrating if you are on the end of slow/bad marshalling but you would feel so bad if you were to cause an accident and hurt a marshall or member of the public, trust me i know because i was racing at an event held off site by my club, caught the rope on the outside of the last corner and ended up shooting off flat chat into a small child who was standing in the pit area,needless to say i did not finish the race as i was shaken at thinking i had just injured a small child (he was ok,thank god)
at the end of the day we take part in a hobby where if things go wrong people will get hurt,thats why we all have insurance with our brca membership.and in this culture of blame we have saftey has to come first

[RobW]

A couple of peeps have mentioned the lack of training for marshals. I know in the past at the start of the 12th Nationals season Jim Spencer has taken the first couple of heats aside and gives them a 2 min instruction/reminder of a few marshalling pointers. I found it really useful when I started 12th as the cars were like rats on acid and could come round ridiculously quick – it wasn’t rocket science but it did make you think a bit.

They were simple things like putting yourself in a safe position to marshal the cars first and where to put cars down – difficult to explain in words but very easy for an experienced driver to show at a track. Any club could do that in 2 minutes after the drivers briefing.

In DC’s example, the marshal made an error of judgement – he did not have time to marshal the 2nd place car before DC came round. My view is pretty clear that circulating cars have priority. The fact that he marshalled DC last was an innocent mistake as he did not know he had kicked the car in the first place.

However annoying it was for DC at the time at least the marshal was attentive!! Eating/chatting on your mobile/smoking/wandering over slowly to cars to tap them over with the toe of your shoe does not make you look cool – it makes you look selfish and inconsiderate. I know this sort of thing tends to get clamped down on more at bigger events but it happens week in, week out at club meetings where our younger drivers learn their behaviour.

Rob

[c0sie]

You all need to realise as well that as soon as you move away from your designated marshalling position, on to the track to marshall a car you are doing so at your own risk.

Its all well and good trying to move like spider man, jumping around like a ballerina to marshall all these stricken cars but if you hurt yourself doing so you could suffer for the rest of your life.

I managed to ruin my back by just picking a 12mm spanner off the floor wrongly 10 years ago, and now I have nerve damage and no feeling in my left toes for the rest of my life....just because of a 12mm spanner lol. All I did was lean over a little too far and bang, slipped disc (now removed), damaged sciatic nerve, limp, dead foot..etc.

Imagine what you could do to yourself if you slipped on a car or piece of carpet and it all went terribly wrong.

Yes marshalls should be alert, but they should never feel under pressure to perform whilst compromising their safety.

[F1END]

Originally Posted by passy

... For example, one of my pet hates is when a car is on it's roof and the driver pins the throttle whilst wobbling the steering. After getting various tyre burns from these incidents I soon made my mind up that I wouldn't marshal any cars that are on throttle.

I agree.

I recently took my 6 year old lad along to a club night and he was really keen to marshall. He's quite a clever and sensible lad for his age, and the first thing I taught him was to look for cars coming before stepping out onto the track.

He did very well, until someone did exactly that to him... just as he picked the car up, the guy span the wheels, scared the life out of him, and he dropped the car on it's roof. When he picked it up again, the guy did the same thing... so my lad just held the car and looked at him until he stopped, then put the car back on the track.

The guy wasn't at all happy about it, but I think my lad did the right thing... It can be very dangerous to apply the throttle when a car is in someones hands.

But back on topic, I think the guy should have his nerve-endings tested... how can you kick a car into a wall and not notice?!

[jameswilkinson7]

Originally Posted by F1END

I agree.

I recently took my 6 year old lad along to a club night and he was really keen to marshall. He's quite a clever and sensible lad for his age, and the first thing I taught him was to look for cars coming before stepping out onto the track.

He did very well, until someone did exactly that to him... just as he picked the car up, the guy span the wheels, scared the life out of him, and he dropped the car on it's roof. When he picked it up again, the guy did the same thing... so my lad just held the car and looked at him until he stopped, then put the car back on the track.

The guy wasn't at all happy about it, but I think my lad did the right thing... It can be very dangerous to apply the throttle when a car is in someones hands.

But back on topic, I think the guy should have his nerve-endings tested... how can you kick a car into a wall and not notice?!

Wow ... That is out of order... I would have furious if that had happened to my 6 year old son...

[dale]

Perhaps everyone should have to marshall at a 1/8th circuit meeting for a day before getting a BRCA licence. Everyone would soon have the hang of paying attention and not running infront of cars

It's really pretty simple; the first priority is marshall safety. The second priority are the drivers that managed not to crash in the first place. The third priority is getting the crashed car sorted.

[qatmix]

Marshals just have to be alert, you cant complain if they are trying their best. At a small track there are times when its never properly 'safe' to jump onto the track.

Also the amount of drivers that spin the wheels etc is unforgivable, just leave the cars there until they stop it. If a driver spins the wheels if you are holding the car you should put it off the track, loosing a race is perfectly fair against someone trying to injure you.

[pugboy]

This is a debate that could go on for hours because there is no simple answer. The first thing should be that it should be clear at marshall points which part of the track they are responsible for marshalling, and the marshall points should be positioned so that as far as possible they don't obstruct the view of the track. Then all you can ask is that Marshalls pay attention and don't watch the race for the lead or what their mate is doing (although we have probably all done it truth be known), but concentrate on thier part of the track. Try as best as possible to put cars on in the right order and try to avoid getting in the way of the other cars. Sometimes a driver will crash in a black spot on the track, or when another person is being marshalled, and that is just tough. Sometimes as a marshall you will make mistakes, but hold your had up and acknowledge it and most racers will accept that.

What gets my goat is:

1. Marshalls who think they are too good to be turning over cars in 'lesser' races and leisurely saunter over.

2. Racers who shout 'come on marshall!' (or worse) as soon as they themselves have made a mistake from pushing too hard or misjudging part of the track.

Great debate though!

[flipside]

Cool thread. A few weeks ago I wrote an article about marshalling, but it's in dutch :-)

It all comes down to common sense! Marshalls should look at their safety, and try not to interfere with other peoples race.

There is no fixed ruleset, but 90% of the time you can follow a few simple rules that will result in good marshalling.

Here's my article, might translate it at some point! And video's are planned :-) http://www.rc-offroad.be/bnkinfo-marshall.htm (maybe try google translate )

In DC's case, the marshall surely had to wait. You shouldn't be punished for someone else making a mistake. At the start of a final for example, if you crash in one of the first corners, you will be be last for sure, as everyone is still driving very closely, so no marshall can interfere.

[baD]

Spinning the wheels while waiting to be marshalled is a big no no!
Most BRCA sections have a rule re moving parts like spur gears being covered by the body shell, for safety, same for revving car wheels while crashed.
The kid above who just held it and refused to try to put it down did right.
Most clubs in my area gave out Marshalling notes along with memberships in years gone by (not so many now as new members are fewer) and this included 'do not touch cars while they are spinning the wheels'. I have placed a car off track on it's back due to this.

I believe 1/10th Nationals & some Regionals give penalties for 'bad marshalling' so no reason not to do the same at clubs - if it is spotted, penalise it. Some won't be spotted but that is not a reason for not having the rule.

[RogerM]

When I have to marshal a car I try to think through the following order;

1) is it safe, especially near jumps
2) how far away is the next car ... don't want to compromise somebody's run who hasn't made a mistake
3) what order where the cars in when they crashed, restoring pre crash race order is only fair
4) did one of the crashed cars make a deliberate move to take out another, if so the order of marshalling favours the innocent party
5) are any of the cars spinning their wheels ... they don't get touched till they stop spinning and if they start again when I'm holding the car they get dropped till they stop again ... safety first. I think its more acceptable to spin the wheels to attract the marshal's attention than to scream "MAAARRRRSSSHHHHHAAAAAALLLLLLLL!" but once they are approaching your car stick the brakes on please.

All the time I try to keep points 1) & 2) in mind.

Another thing that annoys me, and I try to avoid as a marshal too, is when a marshal gets in the direct line of sight of an apex or tricky feature .... if you can't get back to your point without risking upsetting somebody's run then try to get out of line of sight (duck etc) in a safe place till the track is clear again.

I think it's fair to say that marshalling and driving standards seem to have improved dramatically with the drivers who have refs at their regionals ... and dropped equally dramatically with those that don't!
Some of the marshalling I see at events outside the west mids always makes me think ... "Stuart W' would hang them for less!"

All that said, we are all only human and thus make mistakes ... I certainly can't say I have never effected a race result with a poor marshalling decission.

[baD]

Originally Posted by RogerM

When I have to marshal a car I try to think through the following order;

1) is it safe, especially near jumps
2) ..................

... I certainly can't say I have never effected a race result with a poor marshalling decission.

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