When is a 2wd not a 2wd

[jlucas]

End of the day 10th offroad is thriving we are supposed to look attractive to newbies and returnees not like a bunch of rule book bashing hitlers that kick up a fuss over nothing. The top 20 were placed pretty much as you would expect at a national same old faces and all that so regardless of what they drive they are gonna be quick. Get over it. Toy cars remember supposed to be fun and relaxing not ruled with an iron fist.

[M.Andrews]

duplicate message

[M.Andrews]

Originally Posted by WHITTLER555

Sorry Carl, but not ALL the drivers left the front diffs in, because of the unique way the DEX410 is constructed its very simple to remove all the front drive train in one piece and then the two drive shafts. And that is the way the Durango drivers ran. I think you will find it was the Schumacher drivers in some cases that left the front diffs in.

So basically the DEX410 was a 2wd much the same as a TM2, there was just an empty front bulkhead exactly like most 2wd cars. Nothing was rotating and the drivetrain looked very much like a TM2 with the body off.

This was my point exactly,the 410 can remove all front drive and it would be just like a db1,the schumachers should remove the front belt and diff too!!.

[Skidrow]

Originally Posted by jlucas

End of the day 10th offroad is thriving we are supposed to look attractive to newbies and returnees not like a bunch of rule book bashing hitlers that kick up a fuss over nothing. The top 20 were placed pretty much as you would expect at a national same old faces and all that so regardless of what they drive they are gonna be quick. Get over it. Toy cars remember supposed to be fun and relaxing not ruled with an iron fist.

Agreed

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by MattW

Correct as things stand today. However, let's say Durango decide to do a new 2wd car - we'll call it the DEX410-2 . What they actually do it take some 410 kits, remove the front driveshafts, front diff, and front prop. They then sell the car like this. So what you have is a car that is "designed" as a 2wd (it's sold that way, so it must be!!), but has all the bits to accommodate a front diff / convert to 4wd if you wished that could be purchased later. I used Durango as my example, as it has been said that their drivers removed all the front drive train. I happen to know that at least one of them tried the car with the drive train left in while testing, but didn't like it!!

Carl - so your point on the front drivetrain isn't entirely valid - but I know what you're saying. I can see the pros and cons for leaving it in. My gut feeling is that some of those that left it in were what's best described as being "economical with their wrenching".

matt agree but if my quote was a written rule (and im not saying it should be just a point of view) then your example would have "a housing designed to carry gears or a differential" and be illegal

Originally Posted by mark christopher

2wd may only have one driven axle, no other gearbox housing designed to carry gears or a differential/Rotating mass will be permitted

ill be sticking to my kit 2wd and 2wd as im happy driving them as it makes no bones to be to me at the top mid or bottom of the pack, im just happy to have fun with my toy cars ;-)
i also like the fact if im doing 2wd i can use my 4wd in 2wd mode to finish the day if i break my 2wd

[hotrodchris]

Some of the XB4 drivers at Stotfold not only removed all the front drive train but also moved the rear shocks to the back of the rear tower for 2wd, then swapped back for the sunday so required a different set up?

[freddie]

Sorry bit off topic !!!

We need to build a dirt/clay track in south !!
If someone did have the land to build one what clay / dirt would be needed ???
Also how long would it take roughly ???
Would it be worth while ?

[Lee24h]

Why couldnt we run on a smaller version of a 8th dirt track

[Getpip]

I think the assertion that this would save the average club racer money is spurious.

If one were to follow this trend to its ultimate conclusion what would actually happen is that racers will own/use a different car for every track/surface they race on.
(Some lucky Tamiya drivers already take along and choose from two 4wd and two 2wd cars per meeting and how many Kyosho runners do we know that always bring along a DB1 and an RB6? )

This is great for those that can afford it but will make it impossible for those on a budget to compete on a level playing field, thus prompting a return to the elitism mentioned earlier in the thread (re. brushed equipment).

Moreover the purchase price of a dual purpose model will, inevitably, be higher than a dedicated (simpler) 2wd car thus serving further to deter possible newcomers with a limited budget, that can't be good can it?

That said fair play to those who have found a 'loophole' in the current rules that enables them to improve their performance, I wish I could find a way to improve mine!

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by freddie

Sorry bit off topic !!!

We need to build a dirt/clay track in south !!
If someone did have the land to build one what clay / dirt would be needed ???
Also how long would it take roughly ???
Would it be worth while ?

There used to be one in Romsey, but required an immense amount of effort to maintain and when Bill Jones no longer had the drive to keep doing it it got filled in and returned to a pub garden

Back on topic. If the drive is only to 2 wheels it's 2wd. My only question would be if the diff/spool and drive shafts are left in but the drive to this mech was removed (legal at the moment I think?) how beneficial would this be as a tuning aid?
To design a 2wd car to include this as standard would be easy, you could even incorporate a mechanical brake on it but with no way to add a drive belt.

(When I started racing there wasn't 2wd/4wd split, motors had a £10 limit, and batterys £18 limit. Things change, get on with it and enjoy the new challenges)

Sparky

[dodgydiy]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

Utter bolloxs show me one dedicated 2wd car that has a gearbox/bulkhead capable of carrying a diff or "mass" or a dedicated 2wd that has bearing housings for drive train on the non driven axle end other than the wheels

just look back a few years at the mini mustang. was available as a 2wd or 4wd. one piece gearbox was full length of the car. the holes for the front diff location had two bits of foam pushed into them to blank them off. to make the car 4wd you just needed a diff, two driveshafts and cups and the longer belt, oh and different tyres to make it driveable.

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by Getpip

That said fair play to those who have found a 'loophole' in the current rules

its not a loop hole, they are well within rules.

[Getpip]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

its not a loop hole, they are well within rules.

I know Mark that's why it's in inverted commas.

"A loophole is an ambiguity in a system which can be used to circumvent or otherwise avoid the intent, implied or explicitly stated, of the system."

[Si Coe]

I don't think its the astro thats the problem - its what connects the car to the astro. Astroturf is great for making low maintenance all weather (as in don't need to be covered up, rather than we can race on) long life tracks in the UK climate - but the Schumacher Yellow Minispike just has too much grip.

We don't need to change tracks or introduce rules on gearboxes, just change to control tyre for dry weather to something a lot less grippy.

[Danny Harrison]

Originally Posted by Si Coe

I don't think its the astro thats the problem - its what connects the car to the astro. Astroturf is great for making low maintenance all weather (as in don't need to be covered up, rather than we can race on) long life tracks in the UK climate - but the Schumacher Yellow Minispike just has too much grip.

We don't need to change tracks or introduce rules on gearboxes, just change to control tyre for dry weather to something a lot less grippy.

I like this idea, schumacher wouldnt be pleased though. Would make life easier for racers on a budget too, not needing new sets of every tire ready to be compettitive

[paulc]

Originally Posted by Si Coe

I don't think its the astro thats the problem - its what connects the car to the astro. Astroturf is great for making low maintenance all weather (as in don't need to be covered up, rather than we can race on) long life tracks in the UK climate - but the Schumacher Yellow Minispike just has too much grip.

We don't need to change tracks or introduce rules on gearboxes, just change to control tyre for dry weather to something a lot less grippy.

Tend not to agree with this why is it at alot of meetings national / regional people are changing tyres every run especially the top lads i think it's more down to the type of astro rather than the tyre

As for tracks you can see why alot have clubs have gone for astroturf type tracks because of cost and easyer to maintain than a Dirt track especially with the british weather the way it is.

But at the end of the day fast drivers are always going to be fast and slow ones are going to be slow no matter what car they drive in my opinion 2wd should have the motor out the back no messing taking driveshafts out etc..

[Big G]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

Easy 2wd only allowed one gearbox/housing.

so a Losi XXX4 would be ok to run without front driveshafts?

[TARTMAN]

Originally Posted by Big G

so a Losi XXX4 would be ok to run without front driveshafts?

EXACTLY! LOL....

wow, massive thread, but my 1st reply is still true,

2wd = 2 wheels driving.

4wd = 4 wheels driving.....

simple.

Get over it guys, its a simple thing, why make it complicated.

if you think others are doing better with there 4wd in 2wd then you know what, GO GET ONE yaself and do it. Jeez, not rocket science is it.

althou this will prob continue for some time yet as the various opinions and tales of woe bla bla are pretty entertaining.

Lets keep this hobby as easy for people to be involved in as possible. The bread and butter of this hobby is NOT the top drivers, its the rest of the thousands of drivers that support there local tracks and model shops that keep the sport alive with there hard earned pennies. Most top driver(not all) are sponsored and some paid, so they will not care if they have 1 car or 10................

If a buggy racer, on a budget like most are, can buy ONE car, ONE ESC, ONE Servo, ONE motor etc etc and compete in 2 classes with it, then that's great for them. Let them! whats the harm in it?

If the top drivers want to have the best car or run a 4wd/2wd hybrid or conversion etc etc, LET THEM!

The rules are complicated and anal enough in many respects, why would you want it even more restricted.

Don't kill off a great hobby AGAIN.

Many people struggle to race and pay the normal household bills, if using 1 buggy instead of 2 means they can continue racing, then I say LET that be so.....................

The top boys will always be racing and experimenting etc etc etc.......

Let the rest of us run our buggies and do the same without trying to force people to spend more than they can afford or stop the cheaper ways.

OUT......

[Neil Skull]

I like the idea of tires with less Grip.
The Controlled tire thing is a bit crazy at present with all the different compounds etc! Lets have a different tire per track, And one that does not give too much grip so we get the same handling as driving on Dirt!!!
We could do handouts on the day like they do at Euros and Worlds. No-one has an advantage that way with the special or bad batches I have been hearing so much about recently. You could have 6 different manufacturers of tires each with a tire for each track, stops the monopoly there is at present and will make a more competitive market in the long run!!!

[hotrodchris]

Originally Posted by freddie

Sorry bit off topic !!!

We need to build a dirt/clay track in south !!
If someone did have the land to build one what clay / dirt would be needed ???
Also how long would it take roughly ???
Would it be worth while ?

Another track Freddie?