DB02 cheaper alternative to TRF502 announced tamiya 58507

[HeavyD99]

I thought my Baldre body looked wide next to a 511 - this DB02 will look twice that!

Interesting design none the less - would like to see how it handles and know more about that centre "diff".

Right now though, I'm going to upgrade my DB01R with gear diffs, it has everything else on it - and I still like my belts.

....and did anyone else notice that the Super Shot is looking to be re-released in 2012?!! Talk about gotta have!

[colmo]

Originally Posted by budgio

What will Tamiya will call this one?
Another crazy name no doubt ... i like the look of it.

Leonis?

http://thercracer.blogspot.com/2011/...db02-pics.html

Had an involuntary vision of a barely clad, muscular man kicking someone into a pit and shouting "This is Tamiya!"

[mof]

Originally Posted by thomj316

Absolutely love it, but i do wonder why they didnt mesh all 4 gears together in the centre gearbox for better durability. I know the front and rear centre shafts would spin in opposite direction, but that's easily reversed by turning the diff around, plus it would cancel out the torque effect from left to right.

No, they wouldn't spin at all, as both sides of the driveshaft gears would try to spin in the same direction...

By the way, I love the modern electrics in the "demo car"!

[Chris]

From the pictures it looks like that the car has an angled steering system, like the steering system used at the TRF511/TRF501X platform. Maybe this is also usable on the TRF502X.

[Chris]

And the name is:.............


Leonis

[Jamie.T]

Originally Posted by mof

No, they wouldn't spin at all, as both sides of the driveshaft gears would try to spin in the same direction...

Yes the would, a differential spins with 2 sun gears and 2 planet gears, all 4 of which are joined and rotate fine, but the output shafts would spin in opposite direction, think about it.......

Here's an example that might show how they would work better.

[mof]

Originally Posted by thomj316

Yes the would, a differential spins with 2 sun gears and 2 planet gears, all 4 of which are joined and rotate fine, but the output shafts would spin in opposite direction, think about it.......

Here's an example that might show how they would work better.

But it (DB02 center... thing) is not a differential, hence I think that the two gears that are not directly connected to the driveshaft are "statically" connected to the shaft rotating them, and they both rotate in the same direction. With gear diff they are not connected to the shaft between them and rotate freely in either direction (opposite of each other).

[Jamie.T]

Ah right, i see what you mean in that the 2 (in effect) sun gears are part of the shaft, but this could easily be changed so that the gear opposite spur gear side can rotate freely on the shaft as opposed to connected.

I love the look of the car, but with high powered brushless gear i can see the small contact point of the centre gears stripping quite easily.

[DaveG28]

Originally Posted by thomj316

Ah right, i see what you mean in that the 2 (in effect) sun gears are part of the shaft, but this could easily be changed so that the gear opposite spur gear side can rotate freely on the shaft as opposed to connected.

I love the look of the car, but with high powered brushless gear i can see the small contact point of the centre gears stripping quite easily.

Are they metal gears, loos like it, so they may hold up??

Be well noisy though!!

[sim]

Originally Posted by thomj316

Ah right, i see what you mean in that the 2 (in effect) sun gears are part of the shaft, but this could easily be changed so that the gear opposite spur gear side can rotate freely on the shaft as opposed to connected.

If either of those gear can spin freely on the shaft, the car would be a 2WD.

The only thing we can be certain about that box is that it is out-of-the-box. I think they should have named it the Manolis.

[Jamie.T]

Originally Posted by sim

If either of those gear can spin freely on the shaft, the car would be a 2WD.

As it is yes, but if you read my earlier post i said "if all 4 gears meshed together" as a durability suggestion. If all 4 were to make contact, and the 1 gear (away from spur) on the short shaft were too move freely it would be a lot stronger and the 2 opposing centre shafts would spin and counter rotate the balance of the car.

[sim]

Ah, gotcha.

I think I was thinking too hard about what that box could be. As soon as I stopped thinking, I figured it out. Duh! They just wanted to mount the motor sideways and still run shafts. It's just a compact transmission design so that everything fits.

It's going to lean to one side in the air, I think.

Still, I like it.

[muratti]

I know Tamiya cars since the eighties and know that sometimes they have released very much complicated, overengineered cars. This for example looks very much like the old Chassis like Avante and Egress in the way that they are way too complicated while the competitors show how easy and simple a design can be. I see there are way too many gears therefore bearings and so on that could get damaged. While i think this will be in the price region of the Durango V3 it will clearly be the worse car thorughout.

Don´t get me wrong guys, i am a Tamiya lover since i was 11 but i find it really strange to release a super car like TRF511, then convert this design to shaft driven, will say TRF502X and convert this one to the budget version and make it way more complicated and more expensive to maintain in comparison to 511 and 502X. Everyone who has driven either one of these TRF´s will tell me i am right when i say the only this you need for the 511 is some center pulleys and some diff pulleys. Once in a season change the belts and you´re done.

Am i the only one who thinks Tamiya have released a car that goes backwards in evolution rather than forward?

I find the car interestin- no doubt about, but only to talk about it, i am definitly not keen on driving it...

[knighthawk]

Originally Posted by mof

There is no third diff.

From the Tamiya Blog pics it looked like it could have been a diff as the pic is unclear.

From the later pic you can clearly see the spur gear turns the rear gearbox the other side turns the front gearbox, as the two gears on the spur shaft dont mess with both main gears

my bad

[Fredrik Emilsson]

Originally Posted by thomj316

As it is yes, but if you read my earlier post i said "if all 4 gears meshed together" as a durability suggestion. If all 4 were to make contact, and the 1 gear (away from spur) on the short shaft were too move freely it would be a lot stronger and the 2 opposing centre shafts would spin and counter rotate the balance of the car.

But even if the second gear (away from spur) meshed with the center gears it would´nt make any difference?
Still just one gear (closest to spur gear) that transfers all power to center gear.
The second gear have to transfer power to center gear to make any difference.
Just my thought.

[Carno]

Originally Posted by muratti

Am i the only one who thinks Tamiya have released a car that goes backwards in evolution rather than forward?

I find the car interestin- no doubt about, but only to talk about it, i am definitly not keen on driving it...

I wouldn't say backwards. More like a side step in evolution.
It could very well die at this point if it's unsuccesfull but if putting the motor sideways, so it rotates in the direction the car is driving, proves succesfull it might evolve further from there.

[Jamie.T]

Originally Posted by Fredrik Emilsson

But even if the second gear (away from spur) meshed with the center gears it would´nt make any difference?
Still just one gear (closest to spur gear) that transfers all power to center gear.
The second gear have to transfer power to center gear to make any difference.
Just my thought.

Yes, but the second gear away from spur would push up against the 2 centre gears to help prevent them from flexing away from the driven gear and causing it to slip. It would work sort of like a pressure gear to prevent side flex whilst power is applied.

Who knows, maybe its strong enough and with a little grease in there in should be ok. It was just a thought.

[rcaddict]

Tamiya would be smart to design this new 4WD buggy with counter rotating center shafts. This design philosophy is used in current Superbike engine designs to cancel out the gyroscopic effect of a single rotating mass (the engine crank). If this new car in fact has counter rotating shafts you would get to have your cake and eat it too. You would get the well mannered mid air behavior of a belt drive paired with the low down torquish grunt and durability of a shaft drive. I will be following this car very closely, but for now I have a brand new TRF511 with Hop Ups to build, as well as a brand new DB01R still in the box. DB02 can wait until next fall. Maybe they will release a DB02R or a TRF512 by then.

[sim]

When it comes to racing, Tamiya sticks to what works, which is why TRF buggies have a pretty boring design once you've seen their older cousins from as JConcepts, Yokomo and Associated.

When it comes to their low to mid range kits, they let their engineers have some fun. This time, they wanted to try out a sideways motor, a sideways battery and shafts, so they did. This buggy should have a high moment of inertia along an axis through the length of its chassis, but a low moment of inertia perpendicular to that (i.e. when viewed sideways). From past cars, we can guess that it will handle bumps well but will be slow in sideway transitions. I'm thinking it's also going to lean to the left a lot when it jumps.

They could have done the transmission Awesomatix style to simplify things...

... but I think they wanted the spur and layshaft to be as solidly mounted as possible on the far side since the spur side will be taken up by a slipper clutch option later.

It's new and different which is what is significant. Will it drive better than a 502 or even a DB01? I seriously doubt it. Will it sell? Who knows? Some people will buy the car thinking a new design will solve all their driving problems. Some people will buy the car to be different from their friends at the track. Some people will buy the car to put on a shelf.

Although I agree that the overall buggy itself is not a step forward in design evolution, but this transmission might actually be ahead of its time. If motors get smaller/more powerful, I don't see why we wouldn't use this complicated contraption. I for one would put a custom build together to see it work.

Hmm...

[Fredrik Emilsson]

Originally Posted by thomj316

Yes, but the second gear away from spur would push up against the 2 centre gears to help prevent them from flexing away from the driven gear and causing it to slip. It would work sort of like a pressure gear to prevent side flex whilst power is applied.

Who knows, maybe its strong enough and with a little grease in there in should be ok. It was just a thought.

Yes, we can only guess.
I think the transmission will be pretty solid. The main axle is BB supported on the outside and the gearbox look pretty solid. So it should´nt be able to flex. But we will see.
This solution also means that the shafts rotate in same direction.

I think the Awesomatix solution would flex more.