Entry fees

[Jamie.T]

Im certainly one Dave, as i mentioned previous, i have to travel a fair distance to any event, thus incurring fuel costs e.t.c, so when i go to a meeting i like to run 2 or 3 classes to make it worth my while. Well thats not viable @ £10 a class because its too expensive, so therefore i just dont go.

If the fee's were reduced to £10 for the first class and £5 for the second e.t.c, then i would race.

Jamie....

P.s, just noticed my post made this thread hit the 100th reply. This is possibly on course to be one of the biggest discussions on oOple.lol

[peetbee]

Originally Posted by big dave

but if reducing the cost, does bring in more racer's then that would equall the income. im just asking would that work, as i dont know of anyone who it would attract. not saying there isn't anyone, just i dont know of any.

This I feel is the sticking point in terms of being able to lower the price. We just don't know for sure whether this would bring in more racers and there are clubs who are in the position where they feel that they can't afford to lose that income.

But, lowering the price for a 2nd class would I feel definitely encourage the existing racers to race more on the same day.

For those who are saying £10 is too high, would there be anything that could be improved that would make you feel it is value for money and therefore happy to pay it, or is it just that money is tight and that a reduction in entry fees would enable you to race.

[Jamie.T]

As has been mentioned on several times, £10 is the entry fee to a national. If the tracks in the WRCA were up to natioanl standard (Talywain excluded) then paying it wouldn't be so bad, but theyre clearly not up to that standard (Yet).

Im definitely behind Dave's idea of giving clubs more income in the form of race fees to help them fund building bigger and better tracks, but can we really see that happening? Due to low numbers that will be an outcome of this fee, surely the club's would depend on that money just for their essential upkeep.

Jamie......

[dorris]

Currently there are no members of swansea who don't run at WRCA races due to the £10 fee

There were from the moment it was voted in, and there are still now.... I know for a fact that a club gave a reduction to some of it's hard up members to encourage them to attend the regional round hosted by that club... and those particular members did attend because of the reduction. Sadly many of those members have dropped the sport altogether and membership numbers are now little more than a slack handful, yet there are still some who object to the current race fee.

Perhaps you need to be sure of your facts before making bold statements like the one above.

I remember a few years ago when nitros first started appearing at clubs, there were many complaints about the track time imbalance between them and electrics and I know of a number who dropped the sport because of it... so it was an issue then and as final times have continued to increase over the years it is more so now.... how keen would you be to run your 5 min final then have to marshall a 30 or 40 min nitro final. This is a real possibility at mixed clubs with a dwindling membership.

[GRIFF55]

dont like purple, so wouldn't buy it anyhow.

Don't clubs make their main income from club meetings held all year round??? not just off one wrca round a year??? I always thought the wrca was a regional series that will give club member the oportunity to race against different people and get their F grading in their region. Or as a stepping stone to nationals?
Therefore wouldn't the wrca be better having an entry fee set at less than what people pay to enter the elite uk series??

[mdb_75]

Originally Posted by Dyna

To a point i agree, but as i said earlier, and from what other people have said, if you lower the cost slightly you should get more people attending.

Its better in my mind to have more people competing at a lower cost than less people at a higher cost if the eventual takings are the same

Originally Posted by big dave

True!. that is one way of doing it. but you can't garentee there will be more numbers attending.

You don't think so? If you were to increase the fee you'd almost certainly have less entrants so I would say if you were to lower it you would have more! Simples...

[dorris]

Don't clubs make their main income from club meetings held all year round???

That really should be the case, clubs are non-profit making organisations that should be self-financing. Their annual accounts should just about balance each year. If there is an annual surplus (not profit!!!) then it would be sensible to plough it back into the club to improve facilities, upgrade or replace equipment or even to bulk purchase things like tyres at discount to sell on to the members at the bulk unit price saving members a few quid or buy in PTs that they sell on to members on the drip.

When it comes to clubs that rely on the possibility of a large event or two to plug an annual hole in their finances then they really need to sort the business plan out because they only have to lose the event for one reason or another (flood, foot and mouth, traffic accident etc. etc.) and they could well go down the pan. To manage a club this way would be folly to say the least.

[DCM]

I have to agree with Andy and Dorris with regard to how the funds for a club are gained. In as mush as the weekly running of a club should be sufficient to cover all it's costs from the winter and summer series that they run.

Any other championship was agreed to be suspended on a regional weekend, relieving drivers to attend if they so wished.

There have been a number of people, with the resurgence of 10th electic off-road, who have commented on the cost and it being restrictive, whether it is picking and choosing which they attend, not letting kids get an experience, only running once class etc. This is not the same as with the 8th scale runners, who appear to be happy with the £10 entry for what is really a points series for them (as they do not gain any licence grade), so we must be thankful of their support.

As for not posting, I appear to have annoyed some people, it was not my intention to do so, so appologise now for it, I was merely trying to convey what is in black and white in the rule book.

I do hope, for those who are talking in here, that they will attend the next AGM, and get this sorted (hopefull(

[Belsten]

Originally Posted by big dave

True!. that is one way of doing it. but you can't garentee there will be more numbers attending. The WRCA is currently growing. only 2 years ago, we were lucky to see more than 20 drivers. the £10 fee has been in place for nearly 3 years. with the current numbers each club will have a good income.

We could reduce the fees by £2 to £8, then that loss in revenue over a 12 month period, could be the cost of a new mower for that club, or pa speaker, so when the grass is too long or we cant hear the pa properly. we can say, if we had short grass and the pa was clear, i would pay an extra £2.

really i think a compromise would be the reduced second class. £20 or £30 for one days racing is steep. but come on guys £10 for a days racing, is it really that much money.

A reduction on £2 per entry for 1 meeting is not going to lose a club that much revenue, even more so if people begin to race more than one class.
Its the principle at stake here, it is the same cost as a national entry

Originally Posted by big dave

you forgetting a wrca is not only summer. its also winter. and i do run electric and i do pay £10. its still a days racing you pay for. not how much track time you get. im all for reducing the second class. even £15 for two classes is not that steep for a reginal event.
if i cut with my nitro engine, 2mins into every run, does that mean i can ask for some of money back as electric drivers had more track time. so track time will never come into it. it cant be helped that the race formatt for nitro has been made longer by its govening body. if electric drivers feel they need more track time at brca run events, they should sort it out at the top with the brca sections. this discusion was about how we feel about paying £10 to race at a reginal. i was only pointing out where the money goes, as to think of that, before fees get reduced and clubs dwindle away.
there are so many good points on here. but the track time argument is crap. its just that electric v nitro divde rubbish.
so basically as i run nitro only, i get more track time, due to me having a longer set final. "don't even use the 2 min warm up, as ive never seen an electric car been stopped for going out 2 mins early in a WRCA" so i should pay more to race than my electric compardray.
now there is one word for that ANAL!

maybe next time i go to a nitro national, i will ask if darren bloomfeild and neil cragg can pay more entry fee money as they go around the track more times than i do. and they get a 45min final and i get a 10min just think how crap that sounds.

Originally Posted by big dave

what i mean by anal. is why its even been brought up, that nitros get more track time than electric. its sad to say it. there was never a meeting where a bunch of nitro heads got together and said lets make nitros have more track time than electric drivers. its only a guide formatt of how they run nitros across the WORLD. they have practice and 3 qualifyers and a final that requires a pit stop.

as for what would the nitros say if electrics had more track time.
well i can speak for at least 85% of the nitro drivers who currently race at wrca meetings. as i know most of them pretty well. and they would not give a toss. to be honest i diddn't even think anyone gave a toss what class had more run time, its the first time i have ever heard of it. so seeing as i pit with, drink with, and race with lots of nitro and electric drivers, then happy to say nitro drivers don't care either way. what wouldn't go down well, is if they had to pay a differn't fee to electric drivers. as at the end of the day. its model car racing. not pay by what class you run, or who you are, or anything else in that line. just model car racing.

there was a Winter wrca. Swansea held a round, and the other rounds never devloped. i also run 2 classes on that day and paid £20. and as i have said i agree its a lot of money for a days racing. my vote would be first car £10 and second £5 and 3rd £2.50.

What hang on, there was a winter series that consisted of 1 round ? How does that work ? Best 1 out of 1 to count ?

Originally Posted by big dave

im sure there are others out there in the same position. my pocket would be better off if we reduce the fee, as i attend every round. so reducing the fee's by £2 would see me better off of £12 a season. even better off if i ran 2 classes. but my point was, but us saving money on the day, makes the clubs loose out. an example. when the latest bling part comes out, and its 2mm big and purple, we pay £50 for that as it says it will make us go faster. all that does is make the manufactures loads of money. but we moan about £10 for a race, where our local clubs can make a bit of money and spend it on well needed equipment and better tracks.
so basically we can pay over the odds to have the latest bits on the car's but find it to expensive to plow our money back into the clubs. thats the only bit i cant see, i know £10 is a lot of money, but its not every week, its once a month for 6 months.

but if reducing the cost, does bring in more racer's then that would equall the income. im just asking would that work, as i dont know of anyone who it would attract. not saying there isn't anyone, just i dont know of any.

Youve made some sweeping generalisations here, speaking on behalf of others that clearly dont agree with you. If you are right with your last statement, why dont we just make the entry fee £30 per class then if its not going to attract any other people to the hobby

Its toy cars at the end of the day, my original post is about the principle of it costing the same for a regional as a national and pretty much more than most other regionals. Personally, I couldnt give a toss who has more track time

[dick don]

Why don't we just run 7 mins heats for the electrics and a ten minite (three legged of course) finals do them a two pound entry for all the classes they wanted to race, marshall, cook you tea wipe your arses, will that stop you all winging.
You are the ones who are driving the divide between nitro/electric, have you noticed that the nitro boys just chill turn up pay their dues race and go home happy even helping out with volinteer marshaling duties for your heats.
As was said in many a previous post if your not happy turn up have your vote. Think you would be surprised at the amount of nitro drivers who acculaly vote on things to improve your day to.
Another fine example why i don't race electric, very ANAL.

By the way I started this post seriously, yes have more track time but pay your dues to race and support your clubs, and yep all for a reduction for second class.

[Dyna]

Originally Posted by Belsten

Its toy cars at the end of the day, my original post is about the principle of it costing the same for a regional as a national and pretty much more than most other regionals.

We advanced much, much further on from that when you werent looking Dave....

I think this is good for the WRCA as a whole tbh. People posting what they feel about something they care about - wouldnt it have been crap if your original thread only recieved a couple of half-hearted answers ?

The very fact it is now 6 pages on with good arguments on all sides by a varity of people & classes shows there is life in the WRCA, nitro & electric. And that we are willing to voice our opinions. Even though i dont agree with all that has been said, i would personally rather argue the details with people who genuinely seem to care about the sport rather than people who dont, no matter what class they race.

And most of us seem to agree in principal about the half-cost second class, so some good has already come out of it. Not a bad result that Dave for your original post....

[dick don]

Don't see why it can't be changed just for one round just prove that it will bring in more people, myself I can just hear all the oh I had to wash my grannys hair or clean the belly fluff out of the misses, can here all the excuses now, oh the car was due mot, the sun was to bright the cat was loosing fur.
Be good just to see for one round just to see if you boys can put your money where your mouth is.
H sort it out for them please I do believe the WRCA has a few quid to spare just to cover the expected short fall to the relavent club, even dropping the price as I have said won't please you boys by the time the Agm comes about it will be something else that upsets you.

[Dyna]

Originally Posted by dick don

Why don't we just run 7 mins heats for the electrics and a ten minite (three legged of course) finals do them a two pound entry for all the classes they wanted to race, marshall, cook you tea wipe your arses, will that stop you all winging.
You are the ones who are driving the divide between nitro/electric, have you noticed that the nitro boys just chill turn up pay their dues race and go home happy even helping out with volinteer marshaling duties for your heats.
As was said in many a previous post if your not happy turn up have your vote. Think you would be surprised at the amount of nitro drivers who acculaly vote on things to improve your day to.
Another fine example why i don't race electric, very ANAL.

I still dont understand why the nitro people have to resort to 'anal' quotes all the time...

No one is saying nitros shouldnt have their long run times or anything like that, and i havent seen any of the electric people slagging off nitros at all apart from point about the disparisons between the classes run time and the seemingly inballance of the entry fees due to that fact - so why accuse us of driving a wedge between the classes when it looks as though you are doing that yourselves ?

As has been explained a few times now, the thread started with a simple question about electric regional entry fees, people have justifiably voiced their opinions about the reasons why, and what is involved in the general & club costs and the comparisons between the classes to gauge value for money for the electrics. Just a debate - thats it.

If you or anyone else can run through the thread and point out where any the electric drivers are trying to drive a wedge between the classes or be disrespectful to nitros then please do because i just cant see it ?

Originally Posted by dick don

Don't see why it can't be changed just for one round just prove that it will bring in more people, myself I can just hear all the oh I had to wash my grannys hair or clean the belly fluff out of the misses, can here all the excuses now, oh the car was due mot, the sun was to bright the cat was loosing fur.
Be good just to see for one round just to see if you boys can put your money where your mouth is.
H sort it out for them please I do believe the WRCA has a few quid to spare just to cover the expected short fall to the relavent club, even dropping the price as I have said won't please you boys by the time the Agm comes about it will be something else that upsets you.

Now if thats not being personal & wedge driving though i dont know what is...

Going to your argument though, are you saying we should never mention anything about the entry fees, the reasons behind the costs, the class & regional comparisons and just let things continue as they are with no debate at all just in case one class or the other gets offended ? Then what would you have us do - just take the rules as they are with no further input for next year apart from the AGM ? I would've thought the WRCA members in general would be happy theres such debate going on - it shows people are actually taking an interest in the subject again

I'm honestly not sure you've read the whole thread through though, as you will see just about all your statements have been covered already explaining why we are debating it ( read Dave Belstens posts on the first page for a start ) - including the AGM details last year about the regional costs. And remember we are talking about next years cost now as this years have been already agreed upon last year. Most people i would think have already decided what they are doing for this years series, whether they can race them or not. But if we can talk about things now based on the first two regionals & on ideas & opinions here then we waste less time later on. What is the problem with that ? And if people do change their minds before the next AGM and decide that the fees are fair, then all well and good. Im sure everyone will go along with what is voted for next year as long as everyone has had a chance to talk about it, which precisely what we are doing here.

Yes its good that nitros have helped out marshalling electrics occasionally and its great that you all go home happy. Generally so do we. Lots of electric drivers including myself have said we couldnt run without Nitro support atm, so please do not read things that just arent there. We are just trying to sort our side out for the future ( as has been mentioned by nitro drivers that we should do ) as well as you guys & gals have so we can be as happy as you all are and be in no way 'anal' in the future....

[peetbee]

Dick Don, why the animosity?

I'll take you up on one of your comments though.
The next round is at Caldicot on the 25 July and we're sorry we can only run electric, but that's down to the limitations of our temporary track.

**Entries to run a 2nd class will be HALF PRICE**

ie £10 for 1 class, £15 for 2 classes.

[dick don]

Sorry thought I read somewhere that someone wanted to break up the days and run on separate days.
Don't run Nitro's when electrics are racing.
You get more track time running nitros, I could go on and on through about 80% of the posts.

What i did say is if you want it changed turn up and be counted, its already been pointed out to that if there is going to be a majority turn out of nitro drivers at any AGM then its going to favour them.
And just one more point i would like to make is nitro is the future and savior of this sport, its a much more spectator friendly thing due to the sheer spectical of the sport. I would if i was not involved in the racing wathcing nitros racing would be more appealing than electrics, it will always attract a bigger crowd and potentally more members in my opinion. Electric was the thing years ago when that was the only option now there is another option and its much more exciting, move with the times boys.

[Mikey G]

Originally Posted by dick don

Sorry thought I read somewhere that someone wanted to break up the days and run on separate days.
Don't run Nitro's when electrics are racing.
You get more track time running nitros, I could go on and on through about 80% of the posts.

What i did say is if you want it changed turn up and be counted, its already been pointed out to that if there is going to be a majority turn out of nitro drivers at any AGM then its going to favour them.
And just one more point i would like to make is nitro is the future and savior of this sport, its a much more spectator friendly thing due to the sheer spectical of the sport. I would if i was not involved in the racing wathcing nitros racing would be more appealing than electrics, it will always attract a bigger crowd and potentally more members in my opinion. Electric was the thing years ago when that was the only option now there is another option and its much more exciting, move with the times boys.

I Like you, have we met?

Anybody remember the Chepstow car show a few years ago? Crowds gathered for the nitros but dissapeared for the electrics. Nitro cars appeal to petrol heads, I know because I am one.

[dick don]

There was a round of the nitro x at Bromyard where the crowd were standing three deep all weekend to.
So i say put the fee up for electrics as we generating more members for you.

[gnr racer]

Not good guys
'In my opinion' those above posts are just driving a thicker wedge between the electric & nitro boys
Bottom line is we have got to work together for numbers to flourish. doesnt matter if our power comes from a battery or 'smelly' nitro fuel.
there are a few of us now running both electric & nitro which is definately a positive thing all round

[Big G]

I've always thought the £10 was a bit much, but just accepted it as I'm only a visitor and I just wanted a day out racing at tally (round 1), but they are run so far from BRCA rules it's funny.

"is there a control tyre" I asked. the reply was "yes, black and round and if you want you can have some spikes on them and little writing on the sides..."

The rule on not leaving the rostrum seems to be talked about a lot, but in reality people do what they want without penaties.

I could go on, but hey ho.

My 2p is £5 seems reasonable for the event given that the winter MAM series are £5 and they have handouts (yes, I have a PT) and a clear and structured way of running the day's racing although very relaxed on rules.

[minimatto]

Right guys as Caldicot has decided to reduce the price for the 2nd class I think we can use the last round at Talywain as a test run on fees. Our first round we had 75 drivers bringing in £640 as there were a few junior members.

So I propose the following:

£10 one class
£5 2nd class
£20 family entry (1 Adult and unlimited children as long as they are family, unlimited classes)
£5 junior per class

If we have similar numbers like we did on the first round we can see if by droping the fees halps or hinders.

Also like to mention as we are holding the final round I have arranged for a live band to play at the club house on the Saturday evening, no charge for entry but lets get a few people in the club house, both electric and nitro, and make the final round a good one.